Free Flow WWE

[LKP]

Loving this chat guys i really am. French kiss has a good spot on this forum imo.

Orton and cena are wwe's so called top 2 guys for the enxt 5 years. People will love and hate them but the fact of the matter is im an Orton fan and i hate cena. But you have to give them both credit they are both very good at what they do. But with both of them on the same brand i can see them colliding soon, which i do not want.

 

[noumenon]

Why would they be colliding soon? They just finished up a fued. And with us talking about Orton possibly turning face that makes even less sense.

 

[LKP]

Do you not know wwe's booking? All im saying is the quicker they are on separate brands the better. I just do not want them to collide between now and WM26.

 

[noumenon]

LOL...

Dude. Seriously.

Cena is feuding with Batista and Orton is feuding with Legacy. How within the course of a month would that leave them any room to "collide" in any way.

 

[LKP]

I dunno lol. Lets forget i said that. My main point was i didn't want them to collide if ever they did it would spoil Orton's face push. I think come the draft Orton to smackdown and edge to raw.

 

[xFrenchKissx]

Hollywood Hogan and Hollywood Rock. Although I love The Rock either way, Hollywood Rock was just plain awesome and underrated.

That was Kennedy botching a hip toss on him I guess.

Yeah, because Orton has been given WAY MORE than Cena which is the reason I'm saying this. Cena worked with nothing and got everything, Orton worked with everything and got nothing is the way I see it. Obviously it's not as black and white as that, due to the differences in their character and what not, I just see Cena in a brighter light for making that wigger shit work to amazing perfection, making the Blue shit he's doing now work, he made the protoype work, etc. As for Randy, one word, EVOLUTION? He couldn't get over against Triple fucking H. I'd bring up Undertaker, but he pretty much got fucked in the ass in that storyline, but some decent heat nonetheless. Mick, Angle, etc. Orton was put against all the top guys, before and even more so than Cena was to get over.

Good call. I always liked both Hollywood versions better too.

Do you think that the fact Cena is genuinely a good guy makes it even more easy for people to get behind him?

I think a lot of it has to due with timing. Fans were open to welcoming a new baby face in Cena more than they were to accepting Orton. Charisma has always been a huge factor in the beginning stages of gaining a foothold in the wrestling business. All the talent in the world isn't going to get you anywhere when the fans don't like your character.

I think with Evolution, they took a group of guys, all who they intended to push to maximum limits and spread themselves too thin. Only so many guys can get the rub off of Triple H at once.

I'm thinking it may be Orton's time now though. If he doesn't mess it up and if creative doesn't botch it, I think we Orton can surpass any expectations anyone has ever had for him.

[yt]DIAKnGujUVM[/yt]
:doctor:

Oh lord...

I remember reading an interview with Orton around the time of his conversion into the Sociopath character that he always despised his character up until this point. He said everything about it made him cringe, from his attitude down to the music. The whole "voices" thing was initially pitched by him since he said he always wanted to work a darker angle. I remember him even saying something to the effect that he was hoping his new tattoos wouldn't give them a choice but to go through with it...lol.

I think it is important that the guy behind the wrestler can relate to his character. All of the best in the business have said that their characters were just themselves but turned up to the maximum level. i think the fans can tell too, when someone is doing something that they don't want to do and is totally against the grain for them.

Well yeah, you just kind of repeated my point there. That's all I'm saying. It's just a shitty match up as far as booking goes that you're pitting a guy who's whole strategy is physically dissecting someone against someone who is going to no sell everything.

I'm not saying that Orton needs to dumb down is performance, simply that it doesn't mesh well with a lot of people...especially guys built to look physically dominant against most...IE Triple H and Cena.

At this point TBH I think in the event of a Cena/Orton match the crowd may very well side with Orton...at least in the "BOO!/YEAH!" effect like they did with HHH/Cena.

Difference with Jericho's last return was that he was gone for YEARS, not 6 months. Edge's injury time flew by...so quickly in fact that he still had lingering heel heat upon his return. Which brings me back to the fact had they done the slow build with his return it may have worked out that much better.

Having people booked to be primarily dominant in all situations is a lose/lose situation. How can any person legitimately go against a powerhouse? It makes no sense to have someone go against them strength wise. So, it makes even MORE sense that the way to take them out would be methodically, piece by piece. Brains not brawn. If that doesn't work, what is left?

It may just be me, but I prefer Edge as a heel. The fact that he is so damn good at it and is still being shoved into a box when it isn't what people want to see rubs me wrong. So, I'm not going to like it no matter what the reason.

 

[Mat Awesome]

Loving this chat guys i really am. French kiss has a good spot on this forum imo.

Orton and cena are wwe's so called top 2 guys for the enxt 5 years. People will love and hate them but the fact of the matter is im an Orton fan and i hate cena. But you have to give them both credit they are both very good at what they do. But with both of them on the same brand i can see them colliding soon, which i do not want.

Colliding would only dig WWE into a bigger hole than it already is. I doubt that WWE would let them collide but if they did, it would be most likely a huge flop. Believe it or not, Monday Night Raw is getting stale and repetitive. I doubt that Vince would do another Cena vs Orton for anything. If he did, I would be watching TNA on Mondays, and thats the bottom line.

 

[noumenon]

^Just a random question. You're female right? @FrenchKiss

 

[Great One]

I think a lot of it has to due with timing. Fans were open to welcoming a new baby face in Cena more than they were to accepting Orton. Charisma has always been a huge factor in the beginning stages of gaining a foothold in the wrestling business. All the talent in the world isn't going to get you anywhere when the fans don't like your character.

Yeah dude, but something I really didn't bring up was mic work/charisma. I really don't see much in Orton, he's pretty boring and bland on the mic lately. Seriously, I insult Cena for his generic promos, but they at least have SOME thought. Orton just comes out and says "I DON'T CARE WHO WINS, I WILL BE DUBYU DUBYU E CHAMPION!" in some shape or form. I remember people coming out and saying how blatant these flaws were when he was paired up with EDGE. Idk, we'll see where it goes as a face, but he just seems dull and monotonic as fuck (especially in 07). It was his cocky, arrogant character and cool pose (along with me being young) that made me LOVE Orton back in the day. He was also much better/more interesting on the mic it seemed then, back in Evolution and against Taker, idk. His wrestling style began to bore me though, even though I related to every single one of his characters/gimmicks so well. Still like him though.

Also, as for Cena, I say he's solid because he just seems ilke he ALWAYS gets the job done. Little things, like him jumping that table (considering his size) to FU Sheamus a few weeks ago. Batista woulda probably fallen on his face. Cena seems just as mobile and athletic which leads me to believe he probably and truly didn't do roids.

I think it is important that the guy behind the wrestler can relate to his character. All of the best in the business have said that their characters were just themselves but turned up to the maximum level. i think the fans can tell too, when someone is doing something that they don't want to do and is totally against the grain for them.

EXACTLY, it's something I always say and just said earlier about Cena. It's like the key. Something that Morrison doesn't do which he should.

 

[noumenon]

(Sorry to ignore the majority of your post but)...
At the opportunity to bash Morrison...

Does anyone else think just maybe if he didn't put on the fuckin Disco Stu voice it would be a little more bearable?

 

[Great One]

He was really coming into his own in his feud vs. Punk (and with Miz), he changed his voice a bit with Miz. Then it all went downhill (see my post in the News section). =/

Back in ECW, I had an idea to have Striker be his manager/talker and Flair-esque hype him up and shit with his vast diction, lol.

 

[noumenon]

I know I sound like a broken record with this one but the decision to drop the Johnny Nitro character was a horrible idea all together. I think when he initially picked up the ECW title under the Nitro name he was finally starting to develop into a character. He was having some pretty awesome matches at that point as well. I think the fans were almost on the verge of getting behind the character to some degree because of how much he stepped up his game. I remember sitting there shaking my head when he came out and debuted the Morrison character. Though I can't deny the initial Punk/Morrison feud was incredible.

 

[straight_edge76]

Nitro>Morrison In every aspect.

 

[LKP]

^^^^ Agreed.

I start to like Morrison when he turned face int he summer of 09 but lately he to me is just a douche. I hope his face turn ends up like Orton's fail one in 04/05.
Morrison to raw after the draft as a heel should be interesting.

 

[xFrenchKissx]

Loving this chat guys i really am. French kiss has a good spot on this forum imo.

Well, thanks bro. Glad to be able to contribute.

^Just a random question. You're female right? @FrenchKiss

Yup, I got boobz bro. And no, there will be no pictures.

Yeah dude, but something I really didn't bring up was mic work/charisma. I really don't see much in Orton, he's pretty boring and bland on the mic lately. Seriously, I insult Cena for his generic promos, but they at least have SOME thought. Orton just comes out and says "I DON'T CARE WHO WINS, I WILL BE DUBYU DUBYU E CHAMPION!" in some shape or form. I remember people coming out and saying how blatant these flaws were when he was paired up with EDGE. Idk, we'll see where it goes as a face, but he just seems dull and monotonic as fuck (especially in 07). It was his cocky, arrogant character and cool pose (along with me being young) that made me LOVE Orton back in the day. He was also much better/more interesting on the mic it seemed then, back in Evolution and against Taker, idk. His wrestling style began to bore me though, even though I related to every single one of his characters/gimmicks so well. Still like him though.

Also, as for Cena, I say he's solid because he just seems ilke he ALWAYS gets the job done. Little things, like him jumping that table (considering his size) to FU Sheamus a few weeks ago. Batista woulda probably fallen on his face. Cena seems just as mobile and athletic which leads me to believe he probably and truly didn't do roids.

EXACTLY, it's something I always say and just said earlier about Cena. It's like the key. Something that Morrison doesn't do which he should.

I think it is harder to pull off charisma as a heel than it is as a face. To be a good face, like you said, you basically kiss ass and suck up. To be a heel, you have to be a dick and at the same time make sure everyone loves to hate you. Way more work goes into it which is why really, truly good heels are hard to come by. And when they do come around, they get remembered.

Orton has had some good promos, not everyone can be Rock or Austin. And all in all, isn't that what EVERY promo is about? How someone is going to win? I think Orton is just now realizing his capabilities and I am looking forward to see what he can do with this new opportunity. One that the fans are pushing for, and he is rolling with. Not one that was handed to him on a silver platter.

LOL Did you not just say earlier that it seems that Cena's promos are written for him, or at least the content? Why give him credit now bro?

And I agree. Sometimes it is the little things that go a long way in cementing someones character. Well, maybe not cementing it, but adding little bits of extra support. Like I said, I don't hate Cena. He is the face and THE FACE of the WWE and he is the best at what he does. I just think it is time for a change, and out of everybody on Raw right now, I am placing my money on Orton to be the next great superstar.

I made a thread about that personality thing. If you haven't posted in it by now, GO!