Summer of Punk 2014?

[Embrace Thou Maryse]

You can put anyone in the spotlight, say they are the next big thing, put millions of dollars behind them, it won't make them a star.

Example:

That guy who played John Carter, had 3 major blockbusters, was put on every imaginable medium possible and he didn't get over. I can't even remember his name.

You pick some guy from Austrailia, put him in a suit of armor and give him a hammer and he becomes Thor and a big deal.

What's the diffrence? Nothing, same type of hype. Same amount of publicity budgeted for them, but one guy was a star and the other wasn't.

Much like Cena, some random kid in blue boots and trunks and a buzzcut got over, while some guy named Sean O'Haire was supposed to be this big star in the making.

They don't mass produce stars in any medium. There isn't a formula for making stars. You either get over or you don't.

Not creative, or Vince McMahons fault they put their faith in guys who can't connect with a mainstream audience.

As much as I've liked most of Taylor Kitsch's movies, you are spot on there. He had plenty of hype for all his movies and a great movie star look yet all his movies have bombed. Some people just aren't stars and thats a fact.

That applies even more for pro wrestling, alot of theseguys dont even look like stars in the wrestling world, where everything can be tailor made to make them look like a big deal. Put them on a talk show or media appearance out in the real world and they look like even less of a star. The Lesnars, Cenas, Rocks, Batista's of the world however always look like stars.

And Saiyans has a great point about Punk. Put him against someone who can draw and make him big money and Punks busts his ass. Drop him down the card for a bit and he stops caring. If the guy actually cared about the other wrestlers as much as he says he did he'd be busting his ass in the midcard to make theseguys look like stars. Instead he halfasses it and pouts because he's not Main Eventing, he talks noble but its all about the $$$.

 

[Deezy]

Taylor Kitsch, He was only known from Friday Night Lights had a bit part as gambit in Wolverine he has since done Savages and Lone Survivor.
You are correct, your example was not.

Why is that? Both are Disney owned and had the same type of megahype for their "breakout" movies.

 

[SAIYANS]

Yeah I find it funny ... When I hear the following

CM Punk has 3 match of the year candidates and is the best in the world. It ignores Punk and Ryback were bad for months. The matches with Ambrose are far worse than anything Ambrose has produced with Bryan, Rey, The Rhodes Brothers, Cena, or Usos. The Rollins match doesn't even compare to the Rollins match with Cena. And Reigns had a bad one on one outing with just a hot finish.

Something changes, oh right that's the status of the opponent and degree of the check. Punk knows when to not go off on a twitter tangent and when to show up and make that elbow drop actually connect, them strikes come off hard enough to hear them sound off, those kicks be on point, that dive to be perfect, and all his reversals be crisp. He's shown that he puts that much more focus when he faces Brock, Taker, and Cena which all goes away when he's not facing them. Think of the two he's rumored to feud with soon, Triple H who is the WWEs top heel draw of the millennium and Batista who is their biggest face draw outside Cena since 05. He had every reason to play up twitter and be a douche, it's what he does when people throw out bait and he can chin check them, but when Batista goes off and posts about C stars in a B star level era and has went shoot program on the fact guys like Bryan and Punk shouldn't main event nor can they look like they can kick an ass, he says nothing. There's no doubt why, its the same reason he went from whining like a lil bitch about Dwayne taking up time until Rock decided to work 2 more matches with him and get him huge checks and he was then man hugging the guy out of thanks and showing respect to the Rock lol.


Now as for a summer of punk, again it goes to it can't be a repeat angle. We know he won't leave. We know that ideally the roster is in a better place and him leaving isn't the same as him threatening to leave when they didn't have Rock, Brock, Rey, Batista, RVD, and the like all coming along. It makes no sense for there to be a new summer of punk. Punk can be featured, he can have a huge feud and match and I wouldn't be against that as long as it didn't interferes with beast vs animal, but its clear Punk needs time off to refresh as he's not Cena and his work rate does visibly decrease vs lesser names quite clearly

 

[Luke Flywalker]

You can put anyone in the spotlight, say they are the next big thing, put millions of dollars behind them, it won't make them a star.

Much like Cena, some random kid in blue boots and trunks and a buzzcut got over, while some guy named Sean O'Haire was supposed to be this big star in the making.

They don't mass produce stars in any medium. There isn't a formula for making stars. You either get over or you don't.

Not creative, or Vince McMahons fault they put their faith in guys who can't connect with a mainstream audience.

You're right... putting them in the spotlight does not make them the star.

However, getting a guy who is getting the crowd behind him and then putting him on a 3-month losing streak to nobodies (Sheamus, Del Rio, Miz, Kofi, Cesaro) kills off all of that hype.

Steve Austin is the perfect example. He got started and stopped so many times in WCW. He was getting over, and they shit on him. Told him he was gonna get his shot, started getting over again, and they shit on him. Went to ECW, had a new gimmick, was taking off, got the call from WWE. Went there... and they shit all over him. If Austin hadn't walked into Vince's office and told him, "this is what I'm gonna do and you're going to let me do it whether you like it or not" AND THEN Vince allowed him to win the KOR in order to give him that shot... we never would have had the BIGGEST STAR IN THE HISTORY OF THE INDUSTRY.

If John Cena went into Mania in 2004(?) and not been booked to pick up Big Show and win the US Title and get a feud started with JBL (who was the top heel at the time)... we never would have had the Cena era.

Sheamus came in and made one of the biggest impacts, and instead of Vince letting it continue, he got put on a losing streak and then got completely embarrassed at the expense of Triple H. Sheamus now? He's a tough sonuvabitch who people like to watch fight but he isn't recognized as one of the best even though he went an ENTIRE YEAR without losing cleanly to anyone in any match up until he fought Big Show.

Daniel Bryan has been the most over performer on the card since he lost to Sheamus at WrestleMania and the crowd has done everything they could to get behind him... yet WWE's booking has left him looking pathetic, and weak, and the audience is confused, unsure if they will ever give him the opportunity they think he deserves.

CM Punk's initial run got him so over that Cena got booed out of his own hometown. The crowd wanted it, and then Kevin Nash came along, and they bounced Punk around left and right to look like an idiot to the point that not even the longest reign as WWE Champion in the E era could get him out of the obscurity they got him stuck into.

Kofi had opportunity after opportunity to be made into more than what he is. He has been given shot after shot with legitimate runs as a midcard champ and, when you get past him being a glorified numbers holder, he really did perform in those reigns. But they do stupid shit like keep a song that reminds everyone of how much of a joke his character used to be and it makes his current character look more like a joke. Despite the fact he can have the hottest match on any card, they've decided that's all he is good for because THEY won't pull the trigger and go that extra mile.

There was a time when a guy could enter the business and go out and earn his stripes and the admiration of the fans. I'm thinking of the guys like Edge, Undertaker, Mark Henry (not an A player but his championship run was an A player performance), Kane (same as Mark). A player capability exists, and Undertaker wasn't gifted early success. He had to be given opportunities. They could have buried him early on, but they kept his card in hand and it has paid off. Undertaker never went on a massive losing streak "so he could be tested to maintain his over-ness while in a slump." All it ever seems like to the audience is that the E doesn't see them as good enough to stay over by maintaining a push. NOBODY needs to go on a 3 month losing streak to be in a slump... that's stupid booking, and the start-and-stop approach has DEFINITELY killed a lot of momentum and handicapped some careers from getting over the hump.

 

[Chris]

When I'm admin there's so going to be a mandatory tl;dr rule for any post over two paragraphs.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Yeah I find it funny ... When I hear the following

CM Punk has 3 match of the year candidates and is the best in the world. It ignores Punk and Ryback were bad for months. The matches with Ambrose are far worse than anything Ambrose has produced with Bryan, Rey, The Rhodes Brothers, Cena, or Usos. The Rollins match doesn't even compare to the Rollins match with Cena. And Reigns had a bad one on one outing with just a hot finish.

Something changes, oh right that's the status of the opponent and degree of the check. Punk knows when to not go off on a twitter tangent and when to show up and make that elbow drop actually connect, them strikes come off hard enough to hear them sound off, those kicks be on point, that dive to be perfect, and all his reversals be crisp. He's shown that he puts that much more focus when he faces Brock, Taker, and Cena which all goes away when he's not facing them. Think of the two he's rumored to feud with soon, Triple H who is the WWEs top heel draw of the millennium and Batista who is their biggest face draw outside Cena since 05. He had every reason to play up twitter and be a douche, it's what he does when people throw out bait and he can chin check them, but when Batista goes off and posts about C stars in a B star level era and has went shoot program on the fact guys like Bryan and Punk shouldn't main event nor can they look like they can kick an ass, he says nothing. There's no doubt why, its the same reason he went from whining like a lil bitch about Dwayne taking up time until Rock decided to work 2 more matches with him and get him huge checks and he was then man hugging the guy out of thanks and showing respect to the Rock lol.


Now as for a summer of punk, again it goes to it can't be a repeat angle. We know he won't leave. We know that ideally the roster is in a better place and him leaving isn't the same as him threatening to leave when they didn't have Rock, Brock, Rey, Batista, RVD, and the like all coming along. It makes no sense for there to be a new summer of punk. Punk can be featured, he can have a huge feud and match and I wouldn't be against that as long as it didn't interferes with beast vs animal, but its clear Punk needs time off to refresh as he's not Cena and his work rate does visibly decrease vs lesser names quite clearly

So nobody else ever has a bad match? Of course you give your all when you're facing the top guys and big name draws.

Let's not ignore that Punk IS beat up right now... which would easily explain his (self-admittedly) below standard performances in the ring. Let's also not forget that going all out every single night is the way you get yourself more beat up.

And you use Ryback? Name one good match Ryback has had. One. I'll show you a liar if you name a single match. Ryback is the sloppiest, most risky guy in the entire locker room... and his heat backstage for concussing Ziggler (a major concussion) in a spot which was totally careless by Ryback (funny how this keeps happening to Ryback) supports my point. Ryback is not good in the ring. Just because you take one guy who is great doesn't mean he can make anyone look good. Nobody has performed well in a match with Ryback... NOBODY. Cena's feud with Ryback was forgettable at best. But you're not up here calling out Cena for having a shitty Ryback feud for MONTHS. You're not calling out Cena for pulling punches in Raw matches. I'm not suggesting Cena is shit. I understand why he does it. I'm sure you understand too. But you're hypocritical if you say all that shit about Punk but you don't turn it right around and point it at Cena for doing the same thing.

 

[SAIYANS]

Bryan carried the fuck out of Ryback

Cena puts more effort in working with the likes of Khali, Sandow, and the like. He's shown that much despite the schedule he works being more hectic and his Knicks and bruises

 

[John McHenry]

Why is that? Both are Disney owned and had the same type of megahype for their "breakout" movies.

One was fucking Thor which has a better following than John Carter. One is Marvel which comes with it's own built in fan base basically. One featured a handful of humans and mostly CGI. Thor was done by a well known director highly acclaimed the other was done by a cartoonist with no live action experience. It's basically comparing an Oscar nominated Film to a music video.

 

[Deezy]

You're right... putting them in the spotlight does not make them the star.

However, getting a guy who is getting the crowd behind him and then putting him on a 3-month losing streak to nobodies (Sheamus, Del Rio, Miz, Kofi, Cesaro) kills off all of that hype.

Steve Austin is the perfect example. He got started and stopped so many times in WCW. He was getting over, and they shit on him. Told him he was gonna get his shot, started getting over again, and they shit on him. Went to ECW, had a new gimmick, was taking off, got the call from WWE. Went there... and they shit all over him. If Austin hadn't walked into Vince's office and told him, "this is what I'm gonna do and you're going to let me do it whether you like it or not" AND THEN Vince allowed him to win the KOR in order to give him that shot... we never would have had the BIGGEST STAR IN THE HISTORY OF THE INDUSTRY.

If John Cena went into Mania in 2004(?) and not been booked to pick up Big Show and win the US Title and get a feud started with JBL (who was the top heel at the time)... we never would have had the Cena era.

Sheamus came in and made one of the biggest impacts, and instead of Vince letting it continue, he got put on a losing streak and then got completely embarrassed at the expense of Triple H. Sheamus now? He's a tough sonuvabitch who people like to watch fight but he isn't recognized as one of the best even though he went an ENTIRE YEAR without losing cleanly to anyone in any match up until he fought Big Show.

Daniel Bryan has been the most over performer on the card since he lost to Sheamus at WrestleMania and the crowd has done everything they could to get behind him... yet WWE's booking has left him looking pathetic, and weak, and the audience is confused, unsure if they will ever give him the opportunity they think he deserves.

CM Punk's initial run got him so over that Cena got booed out of his own hometown. The crowd wanted it, and then Kevin Nash came along, and they bounced Punk around left and right to look like an idiot to the point that not even the longest reign as WWE Champion in the E era could get him out of the obscurity they got him stuck into.

Kofi had opportunity after opportunity to be made into more than what he is. He has been given shot after shot with legitimate runs as a midcard champ and, when you get past him being a glorified numbers holder, he really did perform in those reigns. But they do stupid shit like keep a song that reminds everyone of how much of a joke his character used to be and it makes his current character look more like a joke. Despite the fact he can have the hottest match on any card, they've decided that's all he is good for because THEY won't pull the trigger and go that extra mile.

There was a time when a guy could enter the business and go out and earn his stripes and the admiration of the fans. I'm thinking of the guys like Edge, Undertaker, Mark Henry (not an A player but his championship run was an A player performance), Kane (same as Mark). A player capability exists, and Undertaker wasn't gifted early success. He had to be given opportunities. They could have buried him early on, but they kept his card in hand and it has paid off. Undertaker never went on a massive losing streak "so he could be tested to maintain his over-ness while in a slump." All it ever seems like to the audience is that the E doesn't see them as good enough to stay over by maintaining a push. NOBODY needs to go on a 3 month losing streak to be in a slump... that's stupid booking, and the start-and-stop approach has DEFINITELY killed a lot of momentum and handicapped some careers from getting over the hump.

Pick 3 terrible examples are not going to convince that Kofi is a star. His entrance music is fine, it's the only identifiable thing about him. He jumps around a lot, but he doesn't have any swagger or charisma that leads anyone to give a fuck, they had Orton making him look like a killer and guess what, nobody cared after all that. He is Brad Armstrong, he is Billy Gunn. He is Scotty2 Hotty, he isn't a guy to claim any throne, he is lucky to sit at the table.

Daniel Bryan losing is what got him over.

CMPunk has no excuse for his summer failing, that's all on him. Jericho can admit that his unified title reignwasterrible, his fans accept that. CM Punk fans should accept that too.

 

[Deezy]

One was fucking Thor which has a better following than John Carter. One is Marvel which comes with it's own built in fan base basically. One featured a handful of humans and mostly CGI. Thor was done by a well known director highly acclaimed the other was done by a cartoonist with no live action experience. It's basically comparing an Oscar nominated Film to a music video.

Thor wasn't a popular Marvel character. John Carter had its own following aswell, nerd shit is nerd shit IMO.

 

[Keith]

Here we go again...

Oh and Chris you have just made me long for Troy's return, sorry but its true lol.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

Thor comparison is off too. Tom Hiddleton got more famous for Loki than Chris Hemsworth got for Thor. Hemsworth couldn't sell Red Dawn!

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Pick 3 terrible examples are not going to convince that Kofi is a star. His entrance music is fine, it's the only identifiable thing about him. He jumps around a lot, but he doesn't have any swagger or charisma that leads anyone to give a fuck, they had Orton making him look like a killer and guess what, nobody cared after all that. He is Brad Armstrong, he is Billy Gunn. He is Scotty2 Hotty, he isn't a guy to claim any throne, he is lucky to sit at the table.

I didn't say Kofi would be a "star" ... I said he would be more than what he is. No swagger or charisma? Not for nothing, but Kofi comes out and the crowd is cold because nobody gives a damn about him thanks to his song and thinking back about Triple H mocking him for the Jamaican gimmick. By the end of almost every Kofi match, crowds are hot. Nobody fights a bigger uphill battle every match than Kofi does. NOBODY.