Connecticut School Shooting

[Deezy]

Well, when a person ignores the most certifiable statistics out there, what point is there in trying to argue?

I'll be going to range next weekend. At least I'm able to! :Kane:

I'm Canadian and I'm allowed to go to the gun range, only difference is I don't take the guns home with me, because we are not fucking stupid.

 

[Chris]

Yes, because statistics are never falsified for ones own personal agenda. Any moron with Windows Paint can edit a picture, make up some dumb stats, and put the name of some reputable company on it to make it look legitimate.

You are also showing exactly how uneducated you are, simply by bragging about "the range". I too can head out to "the range", it just so happens I dont have to sleep with my rifle to feel safe in my own home.

Most Americans keep their guns locked up, so I'm not really getting the whole "sleeping with guns to be safe" stereotype people are presenting in this thread when that's completely false. I, for one, am not worried about my safety, and definitely not more worried since the Connecticut shooting. Yes, 6 adults and 22 kids were killed, and yes that is a tragedy, a very big one that the media is whoring out for their own personal beliefs, no matter what side they're on, but in the grand scheme of things it was 28 deaths in the entire United States. Stricter gun control would do nothing to prevent anything, a ban on guns as a whole would help somewhat, but it'd most likely be hardly noticeable because there are still crazy people out there who are getting no help whatsoever. If there were no guns, only about 10 kids would have been killed in Connecticut, only by stab wounds instead of gunshot, and it'd be just as big of a tragedy. We probably wouldn't hear as much about it though because the news stations wouldn't be able to scream "Gun control!"

 

[Deezy]

Most Americans keep their guns locked up, so I'm not really getting the whole "sleeping with guns to be safe" stereotype people are presenting in this thread when that's completely false. I, for one, am not worried about my safety, and definitely not more worried since the Connecticut shooting. Yes, 6 adults and 22 kids were killed, and yes that is a tragedy, a very big one that the media is whoring out for their own personal beliefs, no matter what side they're on, but in the grand scheme of things it was 28 deaths in the entire United States. Stricter gun control would do nothing to prevent anything, a ban on guns as a whole would help somewhat, but it'd most likely be hardly noticeable because there are still crazy people out there who are getting no help whatsoever. If there were no guns, only about 10 kids would have been killed in Connecticut, only by stab wounds instead of gunshot, and it'd be just as big of a tragedy. We probably wouldn't hear as much about it though because the news stations wouldn't be able to scream "Gun control!"

I think those deaths sparked a way bigger issue than that.

Thinking propaganda like this is the greater scheme of things.

The one thing I could never figure out, is why does the US overreact to everything else, but when it involves guns, there is a head in sand mentality.

One guy tries to blow up a plane with a shoe and then everyone had to take their shoes off, but 30 school shootings and nothing.

 

[Mick Donalds]

Yes, because statistics are never falsified for ones own personal agenda. Any moron with Windows Paint can edit a picture, make up some dumb stats, and put the name of some reputable company on it to make it look legitimate.

You are also showing exactly how uneducated you are, simply by bragging about "the range". I too can head out to "the range", it just so happens I dont have to sleep with my rifle to feel safe in my own home.

Lol, you don't want to trust the FBI's statistics?

What IS good enough for you, dipshit?

I know your answer, NOTHING.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

lmfao trust the FBI.

 

[Mick Donalds]

I'm Canadian and I'm allowed to go to the gun range, only difference is I don't take the guns home with me, because we are not fucking stupid.

How much crime do you have up there in wonderful, socialist, Utopian, paradise Canada?

Oh that's right.... You don't have to deal with the possibility of being jacked by some recently paroled gangbanger looking for some cash to get a fix, do ya? Nooooope.

 

[Mick Donalds]

I think those deaths sparked a way bigger issue than that.

Thinking propaganda like this is the greater scheme of things.

The one thing I could never figure out, is why does the US overreact to everything else, but when it involves guns, there is a head in sand mentality.

One guy tries to blow up a plane with a shoe and then everyone had to take their shoes off, but 30 school shootings and nothing.

Yes, inanimate objects simply activated themselves and killed people. A blender turned on and chopped my hand to pieces. A car turned itself on and drove over my grandmother. It just simply happened!!

Lol, your propaganda sucks so ridiculously hard, Francoise.

 

[BDC]

It isnt a baby until it has been born. Why bring up a child in a terrible environment where the mother doesn't even want the child? It is the mother's body she can decide what she wants to do. I do think that governments should be able to sterilise certain people that clearly should not be having children, there are too many ferals and bogans out there that have children. I see it all the time in Australia and these kids are never given a chance because of who is bringing them up. If it was up to me people should have to apply to have a child to prove that they are mentally, physically, emotionally and financially stable enough to support a child. Never going to happen but it would solve a lot of problems.

Two highly educated, well respected economists that produced an economic paper that has been peer reviewed and that is factual are crackpots. Some people just don't like the truth.



IF I YELL LOUDER EVERYONE WILL THINK THAT I AM RIGHT!

That guy is a nutcase, anytime someone starts yelling like that in an argument you know that they have already conceded defeat. He gives gun owners a bad name and sets his own cause back a far bit. I am sure that there are plenty of well spoken intelligent people out there that believe in the right to carry guns that would have done a far better job and would have actually had a proper debate. All that guy does is enforce the stereotype that a lot of people have.

Number ONE: We've had legalized abortion here for over fifty years and it hasn't stopped the crime or violence. Troy, I have to say that your argument for Abortion is just a little twisted, but, unfortunately, that is where the world is headed. No God...No Baby...no consequences....nice...only problem is it hasn't panned out has it. And you go authorizing sterilization? WOW! Who decides who gets snipped? Huh? It's like the whole discussion right now about Mental Health. Who decides who's too crazy to own a gun...fun.

Number TWO: That guy WAS over the top. Doesn't mean he isn't partially right. Another great trait of the 21st century. If someone gets worked up or passionate, they're crazy. We're headed for THE EQUILIBRIUM (A movie...look it up). But he is right about a few things. You can cram your globalization! You can shout all you want in Austrailia, and Britian and Europe or wherever...Peirs Morgan can spew his platitudes from his ivory Tower all he wants. But when it comes to who decides the 2nd amendment... BUTT OUT! WE will decide.

The only reason Japan didn't invade us back in World War 2 (and they almost did) was because they knew that there was a gun behind every bush. SO, the UN best keep out of our sovereignty issue. Until you want to get off the WE ARE THE WORLD pedestal and get you a BILL OF RIGHTS of your own...what you say is just convoluted opinion. I respect it. But it will NOT be a part of the deciding discussion. Gawd knows we have enough idiots over here that wanna throw their rights down the drain and bend over backwards and take it from the government for the rest of their pathetic lives.....not me.....sorry.

 

[Troy]

Number ONE: We've had legalized abortion here for over fifty years and it hasn't stopped the crime or violence. Troy, I have to say that your argument for Abortion is just a little twisted, but, unfortunately, that is where the world is headed. No God...No Baby...no consequences....nice...only problem is it hasn't panned out has it. And you go authorizing sterilization? WOW! Who decides who gets snipped? Huh? It's like the whole discussion right now about Mental Health. Who decides who's too crazy to own a gun...fun.

1973 was Roe vs. Wade, before that there were a lot of restrictions on abortion, it was only from 1973 when it was widely available. Crime stats started dropping early nineties, 18 years after Roe vs. Wade. I don't know what I keep bothering to defend it because it is fact so there should be no debate. I am not trying to talk up something that is clearly a lie like creationism I am stating facts that have been proven. Not sure why people find it so hard to understand.

My stand on abortion boils down to it is the women's body she can decide what she wants to do. No-one else has the right to force her to go through with it.

With sterilisation I am talking about sterilising people that shouldn't have children, like people that have had children taken away already and that have proven they are dangerous around children. We had a couple of terrible situations in South Australia last year where Child Services had to remove children from homes where there were half a dozen children that were malnourished and living in disgusting conditions because the parents wouldn't feed them properly and wouldn't clean. These people should never be allowed to have children again.

Number TWO: That guy WAS over the top. Doesn't mean he isn't partially right. Another great trait of the 21st century. If someone gets worked up or passionate, they're crazy. We're headed for THE EQUILIBRIUM (A movie...look it up). But he is right about a few things. You can cram your globalization! You can shout all you want in Austrailia, and Britian and Europe or wherever...Peirs Morgan can spew his platitudes from his ivory Tower all he wants. But when it comes to who decides the 2nd amendment... BUTT OUT! WE will decide.

The only reason Japan didn't invade us back in World War 2 (and they almost did) was because they knew that there was a gun behind every bush. SO, the UN best keep out of our sovereignty issue. Until you want to get off the WE ARE THE WORLD pedestal and get you a BILL OF RIGHTS of your own...what you say is just convoluted opinion. I respect it. But it will NOT be a part of the deciding discussion. Gawd knows we have enough idiots over here that wanna throw their rights down the drain and bend over backwards and take it from the government for the rest of their pathetic lives.....not me.....sorry.

Like I said his delivery was all wrong and it completely ruined his stance because it is really hard to look past his yelling. If he presented himself better and talked like an adult to Piers then people would have listened to what he said and been more sympathetic to what he said. Anyone that doesn't like globalisation shouldn't be on the internet because that is by far the biggest step forward and the biggest asset in globalisation.

With the second ammendment isn't it fair to point out that he was defending that so strongly yet at the same time ignoring the first ammendment by not wanting someone else to have freedom of speech? I thought that it was a bit hypocritical of him. I have no issue with him supporting the second ammendment just find it a bit silly that he supports one part of the Bill of Rights but not another.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

Number ONE: We've had legalized abortion here for over fifty years and it hasn't stopped the crime or violence. Troy, I have to say that your argument for Abortion is just a little twisted, but, unfortunately, that is where the world is headed. No God...No Baby...no consequences....nice...only problem is it hasn't panned out has it. And you go authorizing sterilization? WOW! Who decides who gets snipped? Huh? It's like the whole discussion right now about Mental Health. Who decides who's too crazy to own a gun...fun.

Number TWO: That guy WAS over the top. Doesn't mean he isn't partially right. Another great trait of the 21st century. If someone gets worked up or passionate, they're crazy. We're headed for THE EQUILIBRIUM (A movie...look it up). But he is right about a few things. You can cram your globalization! You can shout all you want in Austrailia, and Britian and Europe or wherever...Peirs Morgan can spew his platitudes from his ivory Tower all he wants. But when it comes to who decides the 2nd amendment... BUTT OUT! WE will decide.

The only reason Japan didn't invade us back in World War 2 (and they almost did) was because they knew that there was a gun behind every bush. SO, the UN best keep out of our sovereignty issue. Until you want to get off the WE ARE THE WORLD pedestal and get you a BILL OF RIGHTS of your own...what you say is just convoluted opinion. I respect it. But it will NOT be a part of the deciding discussion. Gawd knows we have enough idiots over here that wanna throw their rights down the drain and bend over backwards and take it from the government for the rest of their pathetic lives.....not me.....sorry.

1. Then the US can butt out when my country tries to create new laws. Hypocrite.

2. Then what happened in 1812? The US tried to invade Rupertsland, 2 years later the invasion was unsuccessful, and the white house burned down. Or did your teachers not tell you about that part of history?

 

[BDC]

1973 was Roe vs. Wade, before that there were a lot of restrictions on abortion, it was only from 1973 when it was widely available. Crime stats started dropping early nineties, 18 years after Roe vs. Wade. I don't know what I keep bothering to defend it because it is fact so there should be no debate. I am not trying to talk up something that is clearly a lie like creationism I am stating facts that have been proven. Not sure why people find it so hard to understand.

My stand on abortion boils down to it is the women's body she can decide what she wants to do. No-one else has the right to force her to go through with it.

With sterilisation I am talking about sterilising people that shouldn't have children, like people that have had children taken away already and that have proven they are dangerous around children. We had a couple of terrible situations in South Australia last year where Child Services had to remove children from homes where there were half a dozen children that were malnourished and living in disgusting conditions because the parents wouldn't feed them properly and wouldn't clean. These people should never be allowed to have children again.


Like I said his delivery was all wrong and it completely ruined his stance because it is really hard to look past his yelling. If he presented himself better and talked like an adult to Piers then people would have listened to what he said and been more sympathetic to what he said.

Well, I tell you, I won't get into my religious beliefs, as long as you keep your THEORIES about life to yourself. We could debate all day about when life starts and the origins of the universe. You have your theories...I have mine. I happen to think mine are fact. You happen to think yours are fact. We could line up authorities on each side and not get anywhere.

I would like to see the facts where crime has steadily decreased because of abortion. Don't see it. I just think using Abortion to fix the crime rate is like knocking off all the old people to make the health care of the world better. Oh, wait, they're talking about that too. lol. Life isn't sacred anymore. To you and so many others it's a random, chaotic thing that just happens so why respect it? Right? Oh, wait! Could that be the problem with people of who don't respect life so much they just randomly shoot up random people? Wow...makes sense now. ya see, that is the root of the problem. It's not American citizens that abide by the law and never harm anyone who happen to have a gun. It's usually criminals or lunatics. And no law is going to stop either. It's the declining morality of the world...the lack of respect for life or the one who gives it!

Anyone that doesn't like globalisation shouldn't be on the internet because that is by far the biggest step forward and the biggest asset in globalisation.

Well, the internet is free and I'll get on it as much as I please and still hate globalization. It's not the fact that we can share ideas as an international community that I'm against. I'm against the world thinking their gonna get together and decide what's right for America or even Britain. Countries have the right to decide what's best for themselves. And, as much as I hate it, I know it's coming....One World Government...Big Brother...doesn't mean I have to like it or that it will actually be good for us.

With the second ammendment isn't it fair to point out that he was defending that so strongly yet at the same time ignoring the first ammendment by not wanting someone else to have freedom of speech? I thought that it was a bit hypocritical of him. I have no issue with him supporting the second ammendment just find it a bit silly that he supports one part of the Bill of Rights but not another.

I WILL agree that that guy is a sensationalist at best and, in the long run, Piers can say what he wants. What's funny is that he does that as an outsider; he wasn't born in a country that thinks certain inalienable rights are given to man by his creator...lol...oh, look, we're back on THAT again...it's at the basis of everything we do here in America whether we want to admit or not and I think that's what really sets the world against us. Most of the rest of the world have become areligious and are more like spiritualists who just float around into what ever. No need for God, so one country has it on their money...of course, the rest of the GLOBAL COMMUNITY will hate them. I expect it to get worse before it gets better.

I don't have anything against you Troy. In fact, I like you. Don't think this is some kind of personal attack. I just feel very strongly about where I live and what I believe in. So much that I will fight for it.

 

[Troy]

Well, I tell you, I won't get into my religious beliefs, as long as you keep your THEORIES about life to yourself. We could debate all day about when life starts and the origins of the universe. You have your theories...I have mine. I happen to think mine are fact. You happen to think yours are fact. We could line up authorities on each side and not get anywhere.

I would like to see the facts where crime has steadily decreased because of abortion. Don't see it. I just think using Abortion to fix the crime rate is like knocking off all the old people to make the health care of the world better. Oh, wait, they're talking about that too. lol. Life isn't sacred anymore. To you and so many others it's a random, chaotic thing that just happens so why respect it? Right? Oh, wait! Could that be the problem with people of who don't respect life so much they just randomly shoot up random people? Wow...makes sense now. ya see, that is the root of the problem. It's not American citizens that abide by the law and never harm anyone who happen to have a gun. It's usually criminals or lunatics. And no law is going to stop either. It's the declining morality of the world...the lack of respect for life or the one who gives it!

Just want to clear up one thing I didn't mean to imply that you or anyone else on the forum believes in creationism, I have no idea if anyone does. I simply used that as a point of reference because it is a highly disputed and outlandish topic. It was simply a point of comparison.

The paper discussing the impact of abortion on crime is here The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime by John Donohue, Steven Levitt :: SSRN

Well, the internet is free and I'll get on it as much as I please and still hate globalization. It's not the fact that we can share ideas as an international community that I'm against. I'm against the world thinking their gonna get together and decide what's right for America or even Britain. Countries have the right to decide what's best for themselves. And, as much as I hate it, I know it's coming....One World Government...Big Brother...doesn't mean I have to like it or that it will actually be good for us.

Alright that clears a few things up, I thought that you were against all forms of globalisation. I do agree with what you are saying here about it being bad if there was a one world government. There are too many different styles required to run each country and there is no way that one blanket ruling system will work. In the end each country should have control over their policies and I really can't see it going the way of one world government controlling everything. There is a place for some generic standards for all countries but not to the extent where they control every detail.

I don't have anything against you Troy. In fact, I like you. Don't think this is some kind of personal attack. I just feel very strongly about where I live and what I believe in. So much that I will fight for it.

I don't have anything against you either and I don't take it as an attack at all. It is a good discussion that has been had and thankfully for the most part in this thread it has remained civil.

 

[BDC]

I am a creationist (not that it changes anything here) and I believe that ANY life is sacred. Just because you call it 'not yet' life...doesn't make it so. BUT, I'm not here to argue that point either. We will agree to disagree there.

The main point is that I don't care how you slice it, you never gave that child the chance to chose for itself the path it would go. You show me statistics and I can line up story after story of people who rose above their circumstances and upbringing to be great people. We call them success stories here in America. I think if one out of ten can rise above and contribute to the world in a possitive way....that's enough. Simply saying...lets snuff them out before they get out of the womb...that's justice! Sorry, the option of a selfish, sad and twisted society. You use the same type of arguments that people used to convince themselves that women, children and people of different races really weren't people...so we can do what we want. True story. The bottom line is you're deciding life or death...

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

[MENTION=2242]BDC[/MENTION], So what you are saying about abortion is...

[video=youtube;fUspLVStPbk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk[/video]

Sorry couldnt resist.

 

[BDC]

lol...funny...well, I'm not Catholic. What I said was every child is sacred whether in or out the womb...period.

lol...thanks, btw, for putting this part of the conversation to an end! :RUSSO: