Connecticut School Shooting

[Chuck Taylor's Grenade]

So apparently Sandy Hook was a gigantic work. Thoughts?

And if people think having more gun laws or stripping Americans of their second amendment will solve problems they are delusional. Criminals don't care about gun laws nor is banning certains ones gonna make it any more difficult for them to get their hands on them.

 

[Defiant]

In regards to the Sandy Hook "truthers", here's a video that refutes their claims quite thoroughly:

SANDY HOOK TROOF?! - YouTube

 

[Deezy]

For Lemmy sakes, these people make me wish the end of the world actually happened.

 

[We Are Legion]

The stupid conspiracy video is an embarrassment and was poorly done by it's author with very little research and almost entirely fabricated from speculation and nothing more.

That being said, the only thing from this video that did intrigue me was the Crisis Actors company in Denver, CO. The fact a company like this actually exists, calls for highly professional actors with experience in Broadway, classical, and modern theater, and has all their actors registered with the Department of Homeland Security simply just to conduct simulation drills with firemen and police officers is pretty weird. I know several people who work with cities and none of them have to be registered with HC. The guy who made the conspiracy video should have dug into that a lot more, but somehow I have a feeling I actually looked into it deeper than this fucking moron did. Even their FB page didn't make a single post until 3 weeks after the Sandy Hook tragedy when the conspiracy theories started gaining momentum. And if you go to their official website, it's basically nothing but "WE DIDN'T DO IT" plastered everywhere all over their main page while simultaneously explaining that they never use their actors in real world situations. This all just makes me wonder why they have such strict requirements for their actors, even more than Hollywood.

I'm not alleging Sandy Hook was a conspiracy just because of this one company, I just found it interesting. I still maintain the excess news coverage on the Sandy Hook tragedy was more to deter from the US spy drone killings in Pakistan which murdered three times as many children and almost 10 times as many people as this fucking nutbag in Connecticut did. Just like the Columbine tragedy conveniently diverted from the coverage of the US bombings of Kosovo during the Clinton administration. Those are really the topics you want to stick to when orchestrating a "government conspiracy" allegation. The notion that Obama did this to the kids at Sandy Hook deliberately is just not a fight anyone can win because it's Blue.

 

[Chuck Taylor's Grenade]

Whether you think Sandy Hook is an R Troof little jimmy conspiracy or not is up to you. Do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Don't just buy into any information you see. That being said I have my own questions.


AA says that the coroners quirks should be overlooked and that he is likely a solid refutable source. He (the coroner) says the only bullets and wounds used were from a rifle. But according to reports there was no rifle found inside the school. Only the hand guns. So how is it that people could be killed by a gun that was never anywhere near them. And we know it was never near them because the shooter never left the building and if he did I would think they would have locked that shit down like Fort Knox or done something to take him out and prevent him from doing more damage. Does that mean the coroner was lying or wrong in his reporting? And if he wasn't sure of his investigations why would he not say something to the effect of "preliminary findings suggest they were shot with a rifle but we won't know for certain until further investigation and ballistics testing is completed" or not speculate on it at all?


The Emeilie Parker photograph thing. If it is true that it is her sister wearing the same dress in the photo with Obama you would think she would feel slightly uncomfortable wearing the same dress that her sister who was just brutally murdered days earlier used to wear. Now maybe they gave her the dress a long time ago before the shooting. Even then I should think that anything that was even remotely connected to her would bring on an onslaught of unimaginable emotion and grief. I know when my Aunt's daughter died at age 19 she couldn't even go into her bedroom or look at her stuff without breaking down. But as AA says each person grieves in their own way.


They say the footage of the school with no ambulances and everything being calm was taking way after the scene had calmed down that may be the case but how do they explain the lack of any footage closer to the time? I should think that if something like this went down and people were running and screaming like crazy somebody would have had a camera phone out recording this catastrophic event. We live in a world where people can and will videotape everything. Just look at youtube and world star hip hop.


Vickie Soto. No I don't mean the fact that her tribute page was made 4 days before it happened. According to stories she hid her kids in a closet and there wasn't enough room for her so she stood outside. Then the shooter walked up to her and asked where the kids were and she told him they were elsewhere and he shot her. Now I don't know about anybody on here but if I'm close enough to carry on a conversation with someone pointing a gun at me I'm not just gonna stand there with my thumb in my butt waiting to be shot at. And if she had enough time to get her kids hidden I should think she would have had enough time to grab a blunt object, hide behind a doorway and when he enters the room bash him in the head or something. And on that note why wouldn't more people attempt the same thing?


AA claims that the same story told by everyone would be a more likely indication of a conspiracy. Do they not think the government knows that? I should think if they were gonna pull off a hoax like this they'd realize that people would question things more if the story was the same across the board. Unless everybody seeing this was looking at the same things and events at the same time (a complete and total impossibiity unless people have X-Ray vision and can break the laws of physics) of course people are gonna have conflicting stories. Now that doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. It means different points of view will have different stories.


Gene Rosen. His constantly conflicting stories notwithstanding here's my issue. According to one of his many stories of the incident he let the kids into his house where he let them play and talk for 30 minutes before calling 911. First of all I don't know what these kids are being taught in Connecticut but I was taught as a kid never to go into anybody's house I don't trust. Maybe they did trust him I don't know him or them. But my problem is the fact that it took him 30 minutes before even thinking of calling cops, parents, 911, anybody. 30 minutes is a long time in a situation where some psychopath is going through a school with a gun firing away. And if he was assuming that someone else had already called 911 I say bullcrap. Could you imagine if there was an explosion and a bunch of people saw it but no one called 911 because they assumed someone else already called?

AA just simply buys into what that one Reddit poster says quite easily and doesn't question it at all. So he has a problem with people questioning one side of a story but is perfectly fine accepting the other side of the story? Seems a little hypocritical.


Draw your own conclusions from this. My probem is people who feel it's real think that anybody who would question kids being killed is a horrible person. Since when is questioning what happened to anybody a bad thing? Detectives investigate murders, accidents, explosions etc. all the time and are supposed to question every thing that happens. Does that mean they're conspiracy theorist nut jobs? No so how come it's ok for detectives and investigators to question things that happen but not for everyday citizens?

 

[We Are Legion]

Whether you think Sandy Hook is an R Troof little jimmy conspiracy or not is up to you. Do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Don't just buy into any information you see. That being said I have my own questions.


AA says that the coroners quirks should be overlooked and that he is likely a solid refutable source. He (the coroner) says the only bullets and wounds used were from a rifle. But according to reports there was no rifle found inside the school. Only the hand guns. So how is it that people could be killed by a gun that was never anywhere near them. And we know it was never near them because the shooter never left the building and if he did I would think they would have locked that shit down like Fort Knox or done something to take him out and prevent him from doing more damage. Does that mean the coroner was lying or wrong in his reporting? And if he wasn't sure of his investigations why would he not say something to the effect of "preliminary findings suggest they were shot with a rifle but we won't know for certain until further investigation and ballistics testing is completed" or not speculate on it at all?


The Emeilie Parker photograph thing. If it is true that it is her sister wearing the same dress in the photo with Obama you would think she would feel slightly uncomfortable wearing the same dress that her sister who was just brutally murdered days earlier used to wear. Now maybe they gave her the dress a long time ago before the shooting. Even then I should think that anything that was even remotely connected to her would bring on an onslaught of unimaginable emotion and grief. I know when my Aunt's daughter died at age 19 she couldn't even go into her bedroom or look at her stuff without breaking down. But as AA says each person grieves in their own way.


They say the footage of the school with no ambulances and everything being calm was taking way after the scene had calmed down that may be the case but how do they explain the lack of any footage closer to the time? I should think that if something like this went down and people were running and screaming like crazy somebody would have had a camera phone out recording this catastrophic event. We live in a world where people can and will videotape everything. Just look at youtube and world star hip hop.


Vickie Soto. No I don't mean the fact that her tribute page was made 4 days before it happened. According to stories she hid her kids in a closet and there wasn't enough room for her so she stood outside. Then the shooter walked up to her and asked where the kids were and she told him they were elsewhere and he shot her. Now I don't know about anybody on here but if I'm close enough to carry on a conversation with someone pointing a gun at me I'm not just gonna stand there with my thumb in my butt waiting to be shot at. And if she had enough time to get her kids hidden I should think she would have had enough time to grab a blunt object, hide behind a doorway and when he enters the room bash him in the head or something. And on that note why wouldn't more people attempt the same thing?


AA claims that the same story told by everyone would be a more likely indication of a conspiracy. Do they not think the government knows that? I should think if they were gonna pull off a hoax like this they'd realize that people would question things more if the story was the same across the board. Unless everybody seeing this was looking at the same things and events at the same time (a complete and total impossibiity unless people have X-Ray vision and can break the laws of physics) of course people are gonna have conflicting stories. Now that doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. It means different points of view will have different stories.


Gene Rosen. His constantly conflicting stories notwithstanding here's my issue. According to one of his many stories of the incident he let the kids into his house where he let them play and talk for 30 minutes before calling 911. First of all I don't know what these kids are being taught in Connecticut but I was taught as a kid never to go into anybody's house I don't trust. Maybe they did trust him I don't know him or them. But my problem is the fact that it took him 30 minutes before even thinking of calling cops, parents, 911, anybody. 30 minutes is a long time in a situation where some psychopath is going through a school with a gun firing away. And if he was assuming that someone else had already called 911 I say bullcrap. Could you imagine if there was an explosion and a bunch of people saw it but no one called 911 because they assumed someone else already called?

AA just simply buys into what that one Reddit poster says quite easily and doesn't question it at all. So he has a problem with people questioning one side of a story but is perfectly fine accepting the other side of the story? Seems a little hypocritical.


Draw your own conclusions from this. My probem is people who feel it's real think that anybody who would question kids being killed is a horrible person. Since when is questioning what happened to anybody a bad thing? Detectives investigate murders, accidents, explosions etc. all the time and are supposed to question every thing that happens. Does that mean they're conspiracy theorist nut jobs? No so how come it's ok for detectives and investigators to question things that happen but not for everyday citizens?

So are you suggesting there was a government conspiracy?

 

[Chuck Taylor's Grenade]

Not at all. I'm just raising my own questions about what the AA claims as refuting the conspiracy theorist. I'm saying you can't have an incident with people questioning one side of the story and people bashing their questioning as evil while accepting another person's debunking of these conspiracy theorists claims as fact. You should question everything that is presented to you from both sides of the story not just blindly believe whichever side you choose. And taking away the conspiracy theory and hoax factor everyone should question what happened so we can be better prepared in case something similar happens again.

 

[We Are Legion]

Then you don't make any sense. Sounds to me like you're just sitting on the fence so no one says you're wrong. I think you probably do believe there was a conspiracy or you at least want there to be one. You ask the same questions the conspiracy theorists do, sound exactly like them, and laughably defended them by comparing their "curiousity" to detectives. But unlike the conspiracy theorists and real detectives, you don't even offer your own hypotheses. Probably because you know it would make you sound as stupid as the former. You chastise AA for quoting a Reddit poster, but all you did was quote the conspiracy video. The only "point" you made clear is that YOU would have reacted differently in Soto's situation, or YOU wouldn't have wanted to wear a similar dress as your dead sister, or YOU wouldn't have gone into a stranger's house, etc. Good to know, but it doesn't mean anything. YOU weren't there.

It's okay if you believe there was a conspiracy, but at least have the balls to back your beliefs. Don't just pussyfoot around the issue and duck your stance by hiding behind questions with no supposed implications.

 

[Defiant]

Your insistent call for us to more closely examine what we see just smacks more of "it doesn't seem right to me". You're just not saying that. You're subverting responsibility for your own, opposing opinion on the matter.

As for my post and not "having my own opinion", I've stayed out of this entire thread until now (save for an afwul gag a few pages in), but I was just linking to a video that pretty much lays out my thoughts on the conspiacy theories more eloquently and comprohensively than I could've. TheAmazingAtheist more or less does the same by deferring to a Reddit post but still presents his thoughts and his own conclusion. I really don't have much to say because I've always found conspiracy theorists in general to be crackpots. I enjoy skepticism, but, as TAA highlights in the video I posted, their claims in this case aren't so much based in fact as they are mere speculation and don't stand as credible evidence. But as long as it fits into the narrative of their own agenda, it must make sense.

To even label themselves as "Truthers" is rather disgusting.

 

[Chuck Taylor's Grenade]

Maybe I'm still undecided as to what happened and which side to believe. This is one of those situations where the actual physical truth may never be known. You've got a thousand different stories, a bunch of conspiracy theory leads that may or may not go anywhere or have any validity and photos can easily be manipulated as can videos. I think it would be pretty hard to pull off a hoax of this magnitude with this many people involved and somebody not screw up and make a mistake along the way and expose the whole thing. Not saying it isn't impossible just incredibly difficult.

 

[We Are Legion]

There are no "conspiracy theory leads" and all of those allegations are dead ends. Any time there are conspiracy theories, naturally I question the motives of the people orchestrating them and they all have one thing in common: they want attention and/or money. This was blatant in the numerous exploits of the JFK assassination and with the "Loose Change" documentary as well. The author of the Sandy Hook conspiracy video is no different, which is why he stated his motives out in the open at the tail end of that video in the form of what he thought was the reason for this "false flag tragedy".... gun control. Clearly the author is against it because only someone who was would allege what he did.

And let's just say for the sake of argument that he was right and this whole thing was all a huge government conspiracy... clearly an operation of that magnitude would require a lot of planning, resources, and thus a ton of people would have to keep quiet about it for the rest of their lives. Do you honestly think for one second that so many people would just easily keep something like that a secret and not one of them would ever let the guilt of 20+ dead innocent children get to them and make them come clean eventually? Better yet, do you really think the government would risk the complete and utter catastrophe that would result of that kind of news getting out all just to pass a stupid GUN CONTROL bill? I mean, REALLY?! To say the risk outweighs the benefit is a monumental understatement.

Again, if you want to shit on the American government for something related to that tragedy, look up what they were doing in Pakistan that week. I'm sure a lot of them were relieved that someone else was being pinned as a heartless murderer that day.

 

[Deezy]

Fucking truthers.

If it sounds stupid.....9 times out 10 it is fucking stupid.

 

[Dademo]

There are no "conspiracy theory leads" and all of those allegations are dead ends. Any time there are conspiracy theories, naturally I question the motives of the people orchestrating them and they all have one thing in common: they want attention and/or money. This was blatant in the numerous exploits of the JFK assassination and with the "Loose Change" documentary as well. The author of the Sandy Hook conspiracy video is no different, which is why he stated his motives out in the open at the tail end of that video in the form of what he thought was the reason for this "false flag tragedy".... gun control. Clearly the author is against it because only someone who was would allege what he did.

And let's just say for the sake of argument that he was right and this whole thing was all a huge government conspiracy... clearly an operation of that magnitude would require a lot of planning, resources, and thus a ton of people would have to keep quiet about it for the rest of their lives. Do you honestly think for one second that so many people would just easily keep something like that a secret and not one of them would ever let the guilt of 20+ dead innocent children get to them and make them come clean eventually? Better yet, do you really think the government would risk the complete and utter catastrophe that would result of that kind of news getting out all just to pass a stupid GUN CONTROL bill? I mean, REALLY?! To say the risk outweighs the benefit is a monumental understatement.

Again, if you want to shit on the American government for something related to that tragedy, look up what they were doing in Pakistan that week. I'm sure a lot of them were relieved that someone else was being pinned as a heartless murderer that day.

I agree with most of this post, but are you seriously trying to say that you can look at the JFK Assassination and believe everything you saw/told about the event?

 

[We Are Legion]

I'm from Dallas and I've heard every side of that story my whole life. I've been to the old School Book Depository and looked out the same window Oswald did. For an expert marksman of his caliber, that was not a hugely difficult shot for him to make. His military records revealed he was able to hit targets at twice the distance 98% of the time. It was never as far-fetched as Oliver Stone wanted to believe.

In fact, my 8th grade science teacher was completely obsessed over the subject
His father was the news reporter that was scheduled to interview JFK after that parade. His family has an exhibit in the JFK museum and he's practically the most knowledgeable person on the subject I've ever met. Not only does he completely dismiss the conspiracy theories, but he debunked the entire JFK film scene-by-scene in our class and even conducted shooting experiments outside with a pellet gun to demonstrate how much easier it was from Oswald's angle than from a grassy knoll gunman's angle. Almost everyone made the shot from Oswald's and only a couple people hit it from the grassy knoll angle.

So yes, I accept the lone gunman theory and without question.

 

[Deezy]

Fucking truthers.

If it sounds stupid.....9 times out 10 it is fucking stupid.

Seriously.