Connecticut School Shooting

[Troy]

So much foreigner stupidity in this thread.

People that don't live here and don't deal with ANY of our unique social issues feel the need to grasp wildly at the most pathetic strawman arguments, offering their expertise opinion, lol.

I should start telling the Euros that Football is dangerous and should be banned from all the hooliganism and drunken brawling.

If 10k people were being killed each year due to hooliganism and drunken brawling in football the whole world would be saying that something should be done and rightly so.

No sure what is wrong with foreign input. With globalisation people these days know a lot more about other countries because everyone is more interconnected, people don't just read about things that happen in their own country there is easy access for information from all over the world.

There will always be crazy people trying to kill other people. You aren't going to change america so yes dealing with prevention is the only way.

Don't get me wrong your idea would be very effective for dealing with a gunman on school grounds I just think that the problem needs to be dealt with at an earlier stage. Whether that be tighter gun control, more strict background checks, improved mental care, whatever just something to try to help prevent it from getting it to the stage where they have a gun and are on school grounds.

 

[NotReallyaGoodUN]

I agree with you about the mental institutions and sanitoriums (sanitariums? difference?).

Many of the US' mental institutions were closed in the 1960's and 1970's. I'm not blaming One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, but from a popular, social perspective, that movie turned A LOT of otherwise ambivalent Americans against the mental health system of institutionalization.

We need to bring them back. We can't just use the "here's some Zoloft. Go home now, you're all better" approach.

You don't have any active mental institutions? Double wow. Anyways, I agree with you on the non us citizens being unqualified to comment on the internal affairs of the country thing.

sanitoriums (sanitariums? difference?)

None. A sanitarium is a medical health facility where long term patients with severe illnesses are admitted, and a mental hospital is one where psychiatric patients are admitted. The former sad, the latter sad and frightening not to mention, potentially dangerous.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

If 10k people were being killed each year due to hooliganism and drunken brawling in football the whole world would be saying that something should be done and rightly so.

No sure what is wrong with foreign input. With globalisation people these days know a lot more about other countries because everyone is more interconnected, people don't just read about things that happen in their own country there is easy access for information from all over the world.



Don't get me wrong your idea would be very effective for dealing with a gunman on school grounds I just think that the problem needs to be dealt with at an earlier stage. Whether that be tighter gun control, more strict background checks, improved mental care, whatever just something to try to help prevent it from getting it to the stage where they have a gun and are on school grounds.

Honestly there is alot that can be done, that will still allow the rights to remain in check atleast.

-Standardized laws across every state. This will prevent people from jumping states to goto gun shows and buy the weapons that are legal there.
-Restrictions on clip size/automatics. Would certainly slow people down if they continuously had to reload their six shooter.
-Restrictions for those on government assistance. You want a gun, go get a job, pay taxes, and prove you are a respectable member of society.(this one could be responsible for creating new jobs in the states too)
-Institute gun licenses, instead of just registered gun owners. Treat them just like a car, and to those states where you can carry concealed weapons, get rid of that for sure.
-Deny the rights to the mentally unstable, & anyone with a criminal record.

 

[Mick Donalds]

You don't have any active mental institutions? Double wow. Anyways, I agree with you on the non us citizens being unqualified to comment on the internal affairs of the country thing.
.

We have some in the US, but from what I understand, it's few and far between. There used to state and privately run mental instutions for the mentally insane. Now, there's a few left, because, institutionalization became unpopular. My guess (again, just a guess..) is that it's cheaper to just give people prescriptions and profit the pharmaceutical companies than it is to divide tax dollars out of a squeezed state budget to maintain a sanitarium.

 

[BDC]

I don't have a problem with 'outside' perspectives, but you get this pollyanna easy fix crap without a true understanding of the whole problem.

Here in America, we have a unique perspective on gun control. The founding fathers put the right to bear arms in there, not so we could hunt and protect ourselves from criminals; although that's a positive result. They put that in there because they had seen what a government can do when they have absolute power and the abuse that follows (see under NAZI GERMANY also). Now, it's all nice and good if you TOTALLY trust your governments. I don't trust your governments and don't trust my own to just hand over all the weapons. Sadly, the anti-gun people will USE the sadness in Sandy Hook to play on all of our emotions and get changes that are the tip of the iceberg for what they really want. They don't want control on the big clips and the 'assualt rifles'. They want it all...pure and simple. And, Troy, no disrespect, but you can have your globalization. You maybe willing to give up the sovereignty of your country to the UN, but, personally, they need to stay out of it. This is something unique to the US and the powers that be won't deal with the real problem that has to do with mental health and a lack of moral fiber in our kid's upbringing. No, they would rather push their own agenda than to deal with it properly.

There are no easy answers, to be sure. I won't get religious with you for obvious reasons. But that is at the heart of the problem.

 

[We Are Legion]

I believe it because it has been proven and it makes sense. It wasn't some crackpot political commentator that works for Fox News or CNN that come up with it, the guys that found this are economists, they used the statistics out there and interpreted the data.

Criminals are a product of their upbringing and that is why legalising abortion worked. Criminals are more likely to come from poor disadvantaged areas, kids from those areas that get pregnant now had the opportunity to abort rather than bring up a child in a terrible situation which would likely lead them to crime. It broke the cycle and it reduced crime rates by a huge margin

Every other explanation out there for the large reduction in crime rates can be, and has been disproven, they may have had a small impact but the largest impact by far was legalising abortion.

Then again I ask.... why is abortion necessary? Why not just execute all poor and disadvantaged families? It makes just as much sense. If you're going to punish a baby that hasn't done anything yet, why take a half-measure? Deal with their parents too since they are producing the future criminals of the world.

And yeah, this WAS suggested by a... crackpot.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

[video=youtube;ror9v2LwHoY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ror9v2LwHoY&feature=player_embedded[/video]

Oh look, one day I mention Alex Jones, the next he is proving my own point.

Gun crazed Americans are all fucking nuts.

 

[Deezy]

You know what? Why don't you just fix everything by providing more guns to people, give principals or teachers guns, because we all know an adult dealing with children are capable of defending everyone if they had one. Nah, thats not good enough, let's just say kids should all be provided guns on school grounds so they could defend themselves too. Guns for everyon and everyone will be safe with all those types of checks and balances.

Because guns make everyone safe amiryt?

For fuck sakes already. This is just getting Blue.

Treat this like drunk driving death. You can't stop it all together but you can educate people on the dangers of such things and enforce stricter penalties from the results of such acts and maybe you will actually have fewer deaths like drunk driving deaths have.

Should also be able to sue manfacturers of weapons like people sued the fuck out of tobacco companies. Then maybe there would act be some pro-active thinking on this matter.

 

[Mick Donalds]

Went to the range this afternoon with my scary, black colored, AR-15 ASSAULT RIFLE and shot some paper targets. It felt good, knowing that I can freely shoot targets at a range down the road, and then have firearms within reach in the same room should a violent parolee decide to try and break into my house.

And somewhere, out there, in the UK and Canada, there's leftists wearing their "Bush is a Criminal" T shirts and hipster glasses calling for my death because I'm part of the problem, ha ha ha ha ha. :RUSSO:

 

[Mick Donalds]

[video=youtube;ror9v2LwHoY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ror9v2LwHoY&feature=player_embedded[/video]

Oh look, one day I mention Alex Jones, the next he is proving my own point.

Gun crazed Americans are all fucking nuts.

[video=youtube;N9efqhGBHZI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9efqhGBHZI&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[Troy]

Then again I ask.... why is abortion necessary? Why not just execute all poor and disadvantaged families? It makes just as much sense. If you're going to punish a baby that hasn't done anything yet, why take a half-measure? Deal with their parents too since they are producing the future criminals of the world.

And yeah, this WAS suggested by a... crackpot.

It isnt a baby until it has been born. Why bring up a child in a terrible environment where the mother doesn't even want the child? It is the mother's body she can decide what she wants to do. I do think that governments should be able to sterilise certain people that clearly should not be having children, there are too many ferals and bogans out there that have children. I see it all the time in Australia and these kids are never given a chance because of who is bringing them up. If it was up to me people should have to apply to have a child to prove that they are mentally, physically, emotionally and financially stable enough to support a child. Never going to happen but it would solve a lot of problems.

Two highly educated, well respected economists that produced an economic paper that has been peer reviewed and that is factual are crackpots. Some people just don't like the truth.

[video=youtube;ror9v2LwHoY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ror9v2LwHoY&feature=player_embedded[/video]

Oh look, one day I mention Alex Jones, the next he is proving my own point.

Gun crazed Americans are all fucking nuts.

IF I YELL LOUDER EVERYONE WILL THINK THAT I AM RIGHT!

That guy is a nutcase, anytime someone starts yelling like that in an argument you know that they have already conceded defeat. He gives gun owners a bad name and sets his own cause back a far bit. I am sure that there are plenty of well spoken intelligent people out there that believe in the right to carry guns that would have done a far better job and would have actually had a proper debate. All that guy does is enforce the stereotype that a lot of people have.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

All I wanted to bring up is exactly how these gun crazed blueberries sound. Dont care about what new made up stats are, stats are always exagerated, or fixed to enforce a possition. The fact you rely on them for an arguement only proves you have nothing to back up your claims.

Fact: 20 children, & 6 adults are all dead.
Fact: Americans care more about their guns than the lives lost, as Mick & Alex Jones have proven in this thread.
Fact: There is a difference between tighter gun restrictions, and disarming.

 

[Troy]

They should just have better representatives in the media. As I said I am sure that it wouldn't be hard to find a well spoken gun owner that firmly believes that stricter gun control isn't needed that doesn't argue like a ten year old. But that wouldn't produce compelling television. With that Alex Jones guy I do like how he defends the second ammendment so vehemently yet doesn't support the first ammendment.

With that reality check video when they said Piers numbers were wrong I expected a massive difference. The US number is still more than 100 times the UK number, so there wasn't much difference in the end.

 

[Mick Donalds]

All I wanted to bring up is exactly how these gun crazed blueberries sound. Dont care about what new made up stats are, stats are always exagerated, or fixed to enforce a possition. The fact you rely on them for an arguement only proves you have nothing to back up your claims.

Fact: 20 children, & 6 adults are all dead.
Fact: Americans care more about their guns than the lives lost, as Mick & Alex Jones have proven in this thread.
Fact: There is a difference between tighter gun restrictions, and disarming.

Well, when a person ignores the most certifiable statistics out there, what point is there in trying to argue?

I'll be going to range next weekend. At least I'm able to! :Kane:

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

Yes, because statistics are never falsified for ones own personal agenda. Any moron with Windows Paint can edit a picture, make up some dumb stats, and put the name of some reputable company on it to make it look legitimate.

You are also showing exactly how uneducated you are, simply by bragging about "the range". I too can head out to "the range", it just so happens I dont have to sleep with my rifle to feel safe in my own home.