UPDATED! - WWE VS Saudi Arabia

[Jeffry Mason]

Lol there is so much wrong with how this has played out ON HERE it is not even funny.

Whether Dave Meltzer is right (Alvarez is an idiot who spends more time bitching about wrestling then doing any actual journalism) remains to be seen. He has been wrong a lot this past year (sorta even 2), but even he wouldn't talk about something as big as this without really confirming his sources. So @InsaneAlphaBeta you are taking things apparent authority figures say at face value. While @Jeffry Fucking Mason your hatred for WOR is blinding you this time it appears.

Then there is the sharing of lame YouTube videos "explaining" the situation as if anybody but the people involved have any clue what is going on. @Grievous 3D don't take the word of nobodies on YouTube as gospel.

@JacobFox your inability to even consider that it wasn't a mechanical issue that is at play here is concerning. The null hypothesis shouldn't be that it is a mechanical issue just because people say it was. If the wrestlers were told to say that by Vince, who was told to say that by the Saudis, then yeah I am not going to consider "mechanical issues" to be the default explanation. And there is a good chance it could be what I just said, given that the wrestlers seem really unhappy (per Meltzer reports) - angrier than is warranted for just some "mechanical issues". You know what really makes workers unhappy? When they are forced to lie by their boss.

My position is just that we shouldn't really have one. Wait and see how this all plays out. Let the journalists do their jobs, and let IAB keep us up to date. But speculating is really unhelpful with a complex issue such as this one, at least right at the start of this news story. The same way constant speculation about a gunman in the beginning of a shooting event is unhelpful (Or is there a second shooter? I just asked the question therefore the second shooter exists. Be afraid. - You see what I mean?)

I don't believe Jacob and I have the same views on this exactly, but I do believe we have the same train of thought, that being that we would prefer to go off of facts rather than pure hearsay and speculation. The only thing we know firsthand right now is the statement given by the airline. Whether it's true or false is to be seen, but it is the only firsthand account we have right now. Me hating Dave doesn't change the fact that him simply saying wrestlers are unhappy is not concrete evidence of anything

 

[InsaneAlphaBeta]

Lol there is so much wrong with how this has played out ON HERE it is not even funny.

Whether Dave Meltzer is right (Alvarez is an idiot who spends more time bitching about wrestling then doing any actual journalism) remains to be seen. He has been wrong a lot this past year (sorta even 2), but even he wouldn't talk about something as big as this without really confirming his sources. So @InsaneAlphaBeta you are taking things apparent authority figures say at face value.

Umm...what?
If i was taking what "Authority figures" say at "face value" id be believeing WWE when they say it was just a mechanical issue, since, ya know, they would be that figure. But that certainly isnt the case. I do feel like there is more to this.

Also i respectfully dissagree with Bryan being an idiot, has he gotten stuff wrong? yes he has but you cant just ignore everything else he has gotten right, and having been listening to dave and bryan for awhile, they have gotten alot more right then wrong.
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Oh boy.....



Also here is a great video summing up everything we know so far, (including how WWE burried its own talent and how superstars are not happy.)

 

[Jeffry Mason]

Umm...what?
If i was taking what "Authority figures" say at "face value" id be believeing WWE when they say it was just a mechanical issue, since, ya know, they would be that figure. But that certainly isnt the case. I do feel like there is more to this.

Also i respectfully dissagree with Bryan being an idiot, has he gotten stuff wrong? yes he has but you cant just ignore everything else he has gotten right, and having been listening to dave and bryan for awhile, they have gotten alot more right then wrong.
[automerge]1572908377[/automerge]
Oh boy.....



Also here is a great video summing up everything we know so far, (including how WWE burried its own talent and how superstars are not happy.)

You made me waste 12 minutes of my life to watch some annoying dude go on and on with his dumb accent about things Meltzer said and things wrestlers made jokes about in tweets, yet no mention of AJ's firsthand account of what happened without the allusions and hearsay that everyone else deemed necessary to include as "news"?

 

[InsaneAlphaBeta]

You made me waste 12 minutes of my life to watch some annoying dude go on and on with his dumb accent about things Meltzer said and things wrestlers made jokes about in tweets, yet no mention of AJ's firsthand account of what happened without the allusions and hearsay that everyone else deemed necessary to include as "news"?

Well, to be fair, i never said you had to watch the video, i just said it summed up everythign we know so far, and since you are already aware you didnt have to watch it, infact nobody did. and my reply in that post wasnt even about or to you, and also if you had checked the OP of the thread you would have seen that i did infact include what AJ styles said, and also about how WWE expanded their deal with Saudi Arabia.

 

[bullyballmm]

Have any of you ever learned how to critically analyse sources? Just because first hand accounts are first hand accounts doesn't mean you should always take them at face value.

 

[The Gipper]

Have any of you ever learned how to critically analyse sources? Just because first hand accounts are first hand accounts doesn't mean you should always take them at face value.

You should take them at first hand value.

thank you, I'm here forever.

 

[Jeffry Mason]

Have any of you ever learned how to critically analyse sources? Just because first hand accounts are first hand accounts doesn't mean you should always take them at face value.

Sure. But what are you suggesting, that secondhand info, especially when coming from sources proven in the past to be biased and frequently unreliable, are to be more trusted than firsthand info?

 

[bullyballmm]

Nah, I am not saying that Alvarez should be taken seriously at all. Meltzer still gets some things right even though this year he has been very hit and miss

 

[Jeffry Mason]

Nah, I am not saying that Alvarez should be taken seriously at all. Meltzer still gets some things right even though this year he has been very hit and miss

A broken clock is still right twice every day

 

[The Gipper]

Corey Graves discusses the travel issues in Saudi and the “conspiracy theories” on his show After the Bell:

“Conspiracy theories had nothing to do with who was most important or who had the most cache. There are a lot more important people than myself and Michael Cole and sweaty the camera guy who made it onto that smaller charter. The fact is it was decided who was essential to make Friday Night SmackDown as close to whole as possible and the efforts were made. Obviously, it didn’t work out, but that was the effort.”

“Understandably this led to some talent, led to some of the crew going ‘Oh my god we’re stuck here — this sucks’ — and it did. Nobody wants to be stuck in an airport that doesn’t even have a bar or a restaurant or anything like that for hours on end. Nobody wants to be sitting on a plane on the tarmac for hours on end. It sucks, there are no two ways about it, but all these conspiracy theories that have been drawn up — and half of it comes from the boys that were on the plane. If you are so insecure and you feel so strongly that you’re gonna get on Twitter and complain because our flight got screwed up for whatever the reason would be — what’s Twitter gonna do?”

Graves also commented on the story about Vince McMahon leaving before the rest of the talent:

“What really got to me was when the rumors started coming out. The first one being Mr McMahon — that Vince left everybody in Saudi Arabia. That’s not true and I’m gonna tell you why. If you work here you know that every week no matter where on the planet we are as soon as the final bell rings, as soon as it is made sure that all of the talent is okay — whoever’s in the last match — Vince gets on his jet and the guy goes home or to the next city because he’s busy running WWE.”

“So it might be a sexy headline — Oh Vince left everybody — everybody was stuck except for Vince and Brock and whoever else had private chartered flights. When you’re Brock Lesnar you get certain perks. When you’re Tyson Fury and you’re the biggest star on earth you get your own jet. When you’re Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair — you’ve earned that, okay? So it wasn’t like he said to hell with the talent, to hell with the crew. Vince did exactly as he has done every week without fail.”

“I’ve been lucky enough to be on the jet with him sometimes. That’s how business is done. It wasn’t a ‘gotta get the hell out of the country, there’s something crazy going on. It was exactly how it works. So I hate to break it to you guys. I hate to put a damper on your party, but that’s how things operate every week and this was no different.”

Corey Graves. Real company man.

 

[Jeffry Mason]

Corey Graves discusses the travel issues in Saudi and the “conspiracy theories” on his show After the Bell:

“Conspiracy theories had nothing to do with who was most important or who had the most cache. There are a lot more important people than myself and Michael Cole and sweaty the camera guy who made it onto that smaller charter. The fact is it was decided who was essential to make Friday Night SmackDown as close to whole as possible and the efforts were made. Obviously, it didn’t work out, but that was the effort.”

“Understandably this led to some talent, led to some of the crew going ‘Oh my god we’re stuck here — this sucks’ — and it did. Nobody wants to be stuck in an airport that doesn’t even have a bar or a restaurant or anything like that for hours on end. Nobody wants to be sitting on a plane on the tarmac for hours on end. It sucks, there are no two ways about it, but all these conspiracy theories that have been drawn up — and half of it comes from the boys that were on the plane. If you are so insecure and you feel so strongly that you’re gonna get on Twitter and complain because our flight got screwed up for whatever the reason would be — what’s Twitter gonna do?”

Graves also commented on the story about Vince McMahon leaving before the rest of the talent:

“What really got to me was when the rumors started coming out. The first one being Mr McMahon — that Vince left everybody in Saudi Arabia. That’s not true and I’m gonna tell you why. If you work here you know that every week no matter where on the planet we are as soon as the final bell rings, as soon as it is made sure that all of the talent is okay — whoever’s in the last match — Vince gets on his jet and the guy goes home or to the next city because he’s busy running WWE.”

“So it might be a sexy headline — Oh Vince left everybody — everybody was stuck except for Vince and Brock and whoever else had private chartered flights. When you’re Brock Lesnar you get certain perks. When you’re Tyson Fury and you’re the biggest star on earth you get your own jet. When you’re Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair — you’ve earned that, okay? So it wasn’t like he said to hell with the talent, to hell with the crew. Vince did exactly as he has done every week without fail.”

“I’ve been lucky enough to be on the jet with him sometimes. That’s how business is done. It wasn’t a ‘gotta get the hell out of the country, there’s something crazy going on. It was exactly how it works. So I hate to break it to you guys. I hate to put a damper on your party, but that’s how things operate every week and this was no different.”

Corey Graves. Real company man.

This makes me love Corey even more. The man speaks the truth, and this is no different.

 

[Solid Snake]

The way I see it is this...

If something did go wrong on purpose, we likely won't hear about it anytime soon. This is the kind of story that paints 100 different pictures. You have the fans who hate places like Saudi and will think of any reason to blame them for what happened here. Then you have the fans who just want to be fans of WWE and not even think about anything related to politics while being entertained. You also have the fans of wrestling in general who think this deal between WWE and Saudi was BS and want to find a reason to say "I told you so!" to someone. You then have the fairweather fans who just want to crap on WWE because they have not been happy with the product in a long time (*raises hand*) and honestly don't care one way or the other why this happened because no one got hurt. I can go on and on.

It isn't worth getting emotional over, at least not me. Flights get delayed. Favoritism is a factor in WWE. There are no secrets here.

 

[Jay-Ashley]

I blame the boomers.

 

[Solid Snake]

I blame the boomers.

I take back everything I said. The boomers did this.

 

[Jacob Fox]

I am that rare sort who is able to do their best to understand those I disagree with. I know Snakey, who is a wonderful feline lover and a very smart woman, and I don't agree often when it comes to evidence. I am a PhD in psychology. I think she and I disagree on a million things. But that says little about us both. We both want evidence.

And damn my biggest problem with Sun was upgrading Litten. Give me a kitty a million times before an odd warped character.

And when I need cat advice, I always turn to her. Because she is smarter than me in regards to felines.