The Russo-Ukrainian War Thread (FKA Political Thread)

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Rosie

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There is nothing I hate more than poor arguing. I couldn't care less if someone disagrees with me as long as they use good and soilid evidence and not a bunch of nonsense.

However, I decided since there was like 20 more pages of this, I probably shouldn't go through it all

Poor argumentation + lack of respect.

I don't even know what he was arguing about. :heston

Neither did he. Went from Trucker Convoys to Trudeau, to the world being owned by China and an apparent Candian Civil War which won't fucking happen because of a lot of regionalism in Canada (the Maritimes are different to Quebec, different to Ontario, different to the Parries and different to BC and yet so many of said groups have their own divisions. It is always a thing)

But maybe I can link Killer Orange Cat to a rant or two of mine, whatever one you think is the best.
 

Jacob Fox

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I spend a lot of time on Quora and I get sick of all the conservative blaming everything on China.

I am NO fan of the People's Republic of China. But the idea that it is funding liberal governments around the world is nothing more than conservative bullshit. And Bullshit seems all that conservatives can do anymore, which makes me very sad.

My current boyfriend spent two years as president of the young Republicans at Princeton. He was actually pissed at me when we were previously together and I voted for Obama over John McCain. But after the way conservatives have behaved lately, he voted for both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden.

People like to compare liberals to communists. This has been going on for longer than I have been alive. FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Carter, Clinton, Obama and Biden have all been called communists and not a single one of them was anywhere close to beind a communist.

Amd you know what is funny? If you even know much about China, it's not a communist country. It's a totalitarian country, for sure, but it's not communist.

Conservatives just realize they cannot compare on issues so they use this nonsense to prey on Cold War remnants to cause fear that shouldn't exist.
 
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I spend a lot of time on Quora and I get sick of all the conservative blaming everything on China.

I am NO fan of the People's Republic of China. But the idea that it is funding liberal governments around the world is nothing more than conservative bullshit. And Bullshit seems all that conservatives can do anymore, which makes me very sad.

My current boyfriend spent two years as president of the young Republicans at Princeton. He was actually pissed at me when we were previously together and I voted for Obama over John McCain. But after the way conservatives have behaved lately, he voted for both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden.

People like to compare liberals to communists. This has been going on for longer than I have been alive. FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Carter, Clinton, Obama and Biden have all been called communists and not a single one of them was anywhere close to beind a communist.

Amd you know what is funny? If you even know much about China, it's not a communist country. It's a totalitarian country, for sure, but it's not communist.

Conservatives just realize they cannot compare on issues so they use this nonsense to prey on Cold War remnants to cause fear that shouldn't exist.

Exactly, I think this thing I mentioned in the Political Compass thread is fitting here.

https://wrestlingsmarks.com/threads/the-political-compass-and-you.128013/page-7#post-2556818
Nationalism in itself is not an ideology itself, so instead it is seen as something which has to tack on to another ideology. That's why we've seen things ranging from National socialism to National conservatism to even extremes of Fascism which has nationalism as a far part of its ideal. I will say while there is nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage or being proud of your country, when it goes into nationalism, a blind loyalty and a superiority complex relating to other groups, that is dangerous. Because that is often what a lot of these dictators hold onto to gain power and influence or even justify genocide.

Did we go "HEY WE AGREE WITH THOSE GUYS?!" No. Take a look at the chart a second time. It isn't just "left and right" it is also vertical and most of those leaders are very much high north on the spectrum. I don't think anyone is near them No matter how you slice it, being an evil person is beyond just what your economic beliefs are. Killing a shit ton of people and establishing dictatorships? Yeah, that's evil.




Take this quote from Thoughtco.com

"The main difference is that under communism, most property and economic resources are owned and controlled by the state (rather than individual citizens); under socialism, all citizens share equally in economic resources as allocated by a democratically-elected government."

Then another example from the site, describing "Democratic Socialism"

"Democratic socialism is an economic, social, and political ideology holding that while both the society and economy should be run democratically, they should be dedicated to meeting the needs of the people as a whole, rather than encouraging individual prosperity as in capitalism. Democratic socialists advocate the transition of society from capitalism to socialism through existing participatory democratic processes, rather than revolution as characterized by orthodox Marxism. Universally-used services such as housing, utilities, mass transit, and health care are distributed by the government, while consumer goods are distributed by a capitalistic free market.


The latter half of the 20th century saw the emergence of a more moderate version of socialist democracy advocating a mixture of socialist and capitalist control of all means of economic production supplemented by extensive social welfare programs to help provide the basic needs of the people."


The second paragraph is probably closer to what some people here maybe say as an idea Did anything there reference "Hey, let's kill people!? Hey, let's be racist as fuck!?" No. There are other things beyond an economic view that cause people and countries to do horrible horrible things.




I mean, I studied and have a degree in political science, so A: I have better than average knowledge of this stuff (not saying I can never be wrong, but I at least have some grounds of knowledge) and then if you pay attention to some of the earlier posts, it shows that along the "spectrum" there are a wide array of ideologies. It is possible for people to be near on the spectrum but has some disagreements. Even then, a political test like that presents an average. Someone may have stances on certain things which may contrast a bit with people near their spot on the spectrum.

9-1-pascal-trade.jpg

The political spectrum is a bit complex and even if people are on the "left" it does not mean they are all commies or all agree on the same thing. You can have views you agree with someone on a separate part of the spectrum or disagree on something close to you.
 

Jacob Fox

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Exactly, I think this thing I mentioned in the Political Compass thread is fitting here.

https://wrestlingsmarks.com/threads/the-political-compass-and-you.128013/page-7#post-2556818


The political spectrum is a bit complex and even if people are on the "left" it does not mean they are all commies or all agree on the same thing. You can have views you agree with someone on a separate part of the spectrum or disagree on something close to you.

It is complicated. Democratic socialism is definitely on the left, but it's better than the current right which is Facism.
 

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KOC should do the political spectrum :garrett
 
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Bobby Barrows

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I should also mention that I am a HUGE defender of pot being legal, but I hate the stuff. I can't understand why anyone would like the stuff.

But I base my views on factual evidence, not my own opinions. And factual evidence supports that there is no reason it is illegal when alcohol is legal.
Can’t speak for others, but me personally the reason I do, it helps me with my anxiety, as well as my depression. It relaxes my mind enough that I can function better. Back when I was on medication, it didn’t help me at all. But when I finally decided to give pot a try (I was strongly against it when I was younger, because I bought into the whole “weed bad” bs.) it really helped me out a lot. But I also understand it not being for everyone.
 
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Not everyone right of center or who is a (global) conservative believes in fascism or should thrown under blanket statements,
 
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Jacob Fox

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Can’t speak for others, but me personally the reason I do, it helps me with my anxiety, as well as my depression. It relaxes my mind enough that I can function better. Back when I was on medication, it didn’t help me at all. But when I finally decided to give pot a try (I was strongly against it when I was younger, because I bought into the whole “weed bad” bs.) it really helped me out a lot. But I also understand it not being for everyone.

It gives me anxiety attacks. It deadens my brain and my thought processes are the thing that make me feel comfortable the most.

Like in this thread, I have nothing against anyone who disagrees with my politically as long as they make a good argument.

But thinking clearly has always sort of been my salvation. ANd pot doesn't help me with that.

Interestingly enough gabapentin DOES help me with that and everyone considers it a wimpy drug.

But my late brother, and the love of my life, Kevin, swear by it. I can't empathize, but I have enough pot experience to know that it is such a minor thing.

I will always support its legalization because it is scientifically proven it does more good than harm.

I had a friend in the 1990s who was dying of full blow AIDS. Smoking kept him from starving to death because it always gave him an appetite. Pot saves many, many lives. But it only has to save one to make it legal and it has done its due diligence.
 
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Jacob Fox

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Not everyone right of center or who is a (global) conservative believes in fascism or should thrown under blanket statements,

The American Democratic party is right of center compared to the rest of the industrialiazed world. Even the conservative party in the UK is more liberal than we are.

I have NO problem with conservatives. But I do have a problem with what is going on in my country right now.

If American conservatives want to quit being the cult of Trump, I will listen to them. I have many friends who are much more conservative than I am. But while the Republican party denounces the Democratic party as radicals, they are the true radicals in this country.

I am a liberal. But conservatives in America deserve better than what they are getting.
 

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It gives me anxiety attacks. It deadens my brain and my thought processes are the thing that make me feel comfortable the most.

Like in this thread, I have nothing against anyone who disagrees with my politically as long as they make a good argument.

But thinking clearly has always sort of been my salvation. ANd pot doesn't help me with that.

Interestingly enough gabapentin DOES help me with that and everyone considers it a wimpy drug.

But my late brother, and the love of my life, Kevin, swear by it. I can't empathize, but I have enough pot experience to know that it is such a minor thing.

I will always support its legalization because it is scientifically proven it does more good than harm.

I had a friend in the 1990s who was dying of full blow AIDS. Smoking kept him from starving to death because it always gave him an appetite. Pot saves many, many lives. But it only has to save one to make it legal and it has done its due diligence.
Yeah, it’s not for everyone. It really does everyone differently, so I can understand it not being for you. But being in favor of legalization is always a plus to me. So I’m happy to hear that!
 
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Jacob Fox

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Yeah, it’s not for everyone. It really does everyone differently, so I can understand it not being for you. But being in favor of legalization is always a plus to me. So I’m happy to hear that!

One thing you can always count on me is that I will always base my opinions, such as this, on evidence and not how I personally feel about the issue.
 
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Bobby Barrows

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I also look at it not just from its healthcare benefits but imagine how much of a tidy source of income for the federal government the legalization and regulation of marijuana would make. It would kill the black market on the stuff and on the whole, would become much safer for the general public to use.

Legalizing Marijuana also brings in the hemp industry which has like a million uses, including subverting the logging industry. It's just a win-win no matter what.