The Russo-Ukrainian War Thread (FKA Political Thread)

[Bobby Barrows]

Why do they entertain you? Do you love seeing me in pain? XD

 

[Alexa]

Grim is a Sadist confirmed

 

[Canadian Dragon]

what beavie said about voting liberal is how I imagine most of "us" younger, left leaning voters have struggled with the past few elections. we want real chamge, but we vote orange and we end up blue and we all lose

edit: canadian left

 

[Moon Bird]

At this point I am now giving up on WS' politics section, because it's littered with democrats who will support these ugly politicians

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

 

[Rosie]

what beavie said about voting liberal is how I imagine most of "us" younger, left leaning voters have struggled with the past few elections. we want real chamge, but we vote orange and we end up blue and we all lose

edit: canadian left

It's like vote Liberal to head in a generally better direction but not going fast enough, or vote Orange to hope for larger change, but in reality go father back because that means the Conservatives win.

I'll also add, I actually have volunteered and still do with the PROVINCIAL Liberal party.

It is a bit less harsh for a left provincially in NB considering the Liberals are the main choice, the NDP are not viable, and the Greens have gained support, but they are sort of more a mix of left and right with environment. The last provincial election the NB Liberals tried Kevin Vickers as their leader, the guy who stopped the Parliament shooting and also was ambassador to Ireland for a few years too. Genuinely, he is a good guy and I have met him, he may have been old, but still had ideas which were fresher since he was not a traditional politician and preached cooperation, having some more progressive policies around environment, trying to diversify the economy by creating multiple pillars based on incoming careers with bright futures, trying to improve relationships between the French populations of the province, the English (in response to the People's Alliance rise and anti-French rhetoric) and Aboriginals (He actually was the police officer who negotiated an end to the Burnt Church crisis) However, he was screwed with his inexperience in partisan politics, with his personality being more reserved he couldn't garner enough attention to really make him stand out, and also he was in power for too short a time to get himself known. He was a potentially right guy, at the wrong time.

 

[Rosie]

So I guess when someone speaks in absolutes they're speaking like Republicans

Only a sith deals in absolutes...

At this point I am now giving up on WS' politics section, because it's littered with democrats who will support these ugly politicians

Didn't notice this: But first, as everyone here has shown, we are not all "Democrats." Second, there is no fucking hive lol. We disagree on things and agree on others. And actually, even in Democrats in America, at least from whenever we looked at it, there is a mix of opinions. We have center-left democrats, we have social democrats, those with a stronger environmental focus, etc. There are some who like Biden, those who like Bernie, those who have another opinion on them, and everywhere in between. But, since you mentioned a "hivemind," let me ask you this. Are these signs of being part of a political hivemind?

Is it idolizing a politician as a God-like figure? Is it wearing merchandise related to them year-round outside of elections, holding flags and signs on your lawn outside of elections? Seeing them as doing no wrong, everything they say is right, etc? Is being literally willing to do anything for them, even storming the Capitol assembly, threatening to hang multiple politicians, with people having zip-ties to hold them hostage?

While the last example is a little too "on the nose" if you want to discuss a hivemind mentality, then I am sorry, but a more apt example of it would be a portion (NOT ALL! I WILL MAKE IT CLEAR NOW) of Trump followers. Then we can even look to some other right-wing figures like Alex Jones where he literally pawned fans of the shows to get a shit ton of merchandise and got his followers to harass Sandy Hook victim's families to the point where they moved across the country several times to avoid it and had to sue him for damages from the trauma (in which it resulted in a default ruling against Alex Jones because he refused to cooperate, which an innocent man does not do).

And hey, I won't deny that there is the possibility of it on the left. It can extend BEYOND ideology. However, looking at all of us, there is no "hivemind." We have our own views and thoughts. Some people may like Biden or Trudeau, others hate them, or neutral. But we can co-exist and have a discussion. But if even the mere existence of people who may be, *GASP* DEMOCRATS pisses you off who debate you and try to give their own thoughts which don't align with yours or point out faults in your logic, then I think not just this thread isn't for you, but I fear what will happen in other threads when someone disagrees with you.

 

[Moon Bird]

Is it idolizing a politician as a God-like figure? Is it wearing merchandise related to them year-round outside of elections, holding flags and signs on your lawn outside of elections? Seeing them as doing no wrong, everything they say is right, etc? Is being literally willing to do anything for them, even storming the Capitol assembly, threatening to hang multiple politicians, with people having zip-ties to hold them hostage?

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To be fair a lot of countries idolize their leadership....China....North Korea....Russia....

 

[Rosie]

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To be fair a lot of countries idolize their leadership....China....North Korea....Russia....

Not saying anything but...

 

[Bobby Barrows]

In fairness, those nations also have strong authoritarian governments that people misconstrue as pseudo-Communist.

China isn't Communist, they're Xiist, and nowadays Xi Jinping Thought has co-opted itself with a semi-capitalist China. It more or less is an autocratic oligarchy made up of the political elite with business owners kowtowing to their will, but profits will still be made even if human rights have to be trampled on. #FreeTibet #FreeHongKong #TaiwanisReal

North Korea is a Juche, a sidestepping of Marxism-Leninism in which the state itself is reliant on the people to worship the state and do as the state tells them in order for the whole government to be self-sustaining. If people have to die because they do not do as the state says, that is merely a consequence of the state's objective of self-reliance. It's an ultranationalist ideology in which the people are only important as cogs in the machine that keep the government running properly. The only people who matter and are above the government are the Kim family, as founders and progenitors of the Juche Idea. Orthodox Communism, funnily enough, places more importance in the collective rather than any government. Jucheism is about the state whereas Communism/Socialism is about People as a collective, and Capitalism is about the individual.

Russia though is pretty far-right all things considered and has generally shifted pretty far from the Soviet days. It's always been a pretty ultranationalist government all things considered.

 

[Bobby Barrows]

While we're at it, if you haven't participated yet, I do implore that any new members from WWEF absolutely check out this thread:

The Political Compass and You!

So some of us on WS have occasionally discussed where we lie on the political spectrum from time to time. This thread isn't designed go cause conflict, but rather showcase what sort of political ideology we are likely to fall under whether we consciously realize it or not. In this video, each...

wrestlingsmarks.com

 

[Rosie]

In fairness, those nations also have strong authoritarian governments that people misconstrue as pseudo-Communist.

China isn't Communist, they're Xiist, and nowadays Xi Jinping Thought has co-opted itself with a semi-capitalist China. It more or less is an autocratic oligarchy made up of the political elite with business owners kowtowing to their will, but profits will still be made even if human rights have to be trampled on. #FreeTibet #FreeHongKong #TaiwanisReal

North Korea is a Juche, a sidestepping of Marxism-Leninism in which the state itself is reliant on the people to worship the state and do as the state tells them in order for the whole government to be self-sustaining. If people have to die because they do not do as the state says, that is merely a consequence of the state's objective of self-reliance. It's an ultranationalist ideology in which the people are only important as cogs in the machine that keep the government running properly. The only people who matter and are above the government are the Kim family, as founders and progenitors of the Juche Idea. Orthodox Communism, funnily enough, places more importance in the collective rather than any government. Jucheism is about the state whereas Communism/Socialism is about People as a collective, and Capitalism is about the individual.

Russia though is pretty far-right all things considered and has generally shifted pretty far from the Soviet days. It's always been a pretty ultranationalist government all things considered.

It goes back to the Political spectrum. While not a perfect thing, the most "accurate" one is the Cartesian plane with both an X and a Y axis. The higher north you are on the Y axis the more Authoritarian you are and that is sort of why people get stuff like being a nazi being confused with communism. Despite being opposites on the X axis, they share quite a bit due to their heavy authoritarianism. I had a friend from Texas say the "Nazis were left," and got confused due to the socialism in their official name. However, they were far-right, high authoritarian.

 

[Bobby Barrows]

It goes back to the Political spectrum. While not a perfect thing, the most "accurate" one is the Cartesian plane with both an X and a Y axis. The higher north you are on the Y axis the more Authoritarian you are and that is sort of why people get stuff like being a nazi being confused with communism. Despite being opposites on the X axis, they share quite a bit due to their heavy authoritarianism. I had a friend from Texas say the "Nazis were left," and got confused due to the socialism in their official name. However, they were far-right, high authoritarian.

There's even a good reason why the National Socialist German Worker's Party used the word Nationale Socialiste in their name: It was a marketing and political ploy to convey to the public that they were "about the rights of the people". It was literally just a way to blend in and make their extremist views look tame.

 

[Alexa]

Russia though is pretty far-right all things considered and has generally shifted pretty far from the Soviet days. It's always been a pretty ultranationalist government all things considered.

Which is a bit ironic since Putin wants to bring back the Russian Empire/Soviet Union

 

[Rosie]

Also looking back to this thread, the Compass thread:

 

[Deezy]

Ladies and Gentlemen and so-called freedom fighters.....allow me to show you Pat King, the defacto leader of your great Canadian trucker liberator....not even a trucker.