The Mad Lies of Hulk Hogan

[Red Rain]

I've considered the fact that he might believe it. Memories are very flawed and everyone not only rewrites their memories without knowing they are doing it, they also make up false memories.

In my opinion, however, he either doesn't expect people to fact check him or he doesn't care.

Oh, I should add a lie. Hogan has claimed the NWO and him turning heel was his idea. In actuality, Hogan declined the idea of turning heel. He hadn't wrestled in WCW in months, however, and finally accepted the idea when he was told he wouldn't be brought back as a face. And also, Eric Bischoff stole the NWO concept from New Japan.

In this case, I've heard Hogan use both stories as fact.
Apparently, in Hogan's world, the idea was his idea and it wasn't his idea unequivocally in the exact same instance.

Solipsism is beautiful. All this time I figured my ex was the most delusional creature on the planet.

 

[Senhor Perfect]

He keeps everyone talking about him. Dude knows how to get over jack!

 

[Stopspot]

Hogan inventing entrance music? Gorgeous George says hi (or someone from that era)

 

[Prince Bálor]

Hogan invented pro-wrestling, brother. :hogan:

 

[Aids Johnson]

Oh, I should add a lie. Hogan has claimed the NWO and him turning heel was his idea. In actuality, Hogan declined the idea of turning heel. He hadn't wrestled in WCW in months, however, and finally accepted the idea when he was told he wouldn't be brought back as a face. And also, Eric Bischoff stole the NWO concept from New Japan.

Scott Hall did brah.

Jamming Hulkster in Heaven ATM. I could pass a lie detector test stating I'm the best member on WWEF, must be true.

 

[Stopspot]

Scott Hall did brah.

Jamming Hulkster in Heaven ATM. I could pass a lie detector test stating I'm the best member on WWEF, must be true.

Bischoff came up with the idea of Hulk going heel after the original suspect (Sting) refused.

Hall had the idea of him and Nash being "razor" and "Diesel". But the idea of the invading faction/company was taking from Japan

 

[The GOAT]

I've considered the fact that he might believe it. Memories are very flawed and everyone not only rewrites their memories without knowing they are doing it, they also make up false memories.

In my opinion, however, he either doesn't expect people to fact check him or he doesn't care.

Oh, I should add a lie. Hogan has claimed the NWO and him turning heel was his idea. In actuality, Hogan declined the idea of turning heel. He hadn't wrestled in WCW in months, however, and finally accepted the idea when he was told he wouldn't be brought back as a face. And also, Eric Bischoff stole the NWO concept from New Japan.

Technically, him saying it was his decision to turn heel wasn't a total lie. Yes, it was Bischoff that presented the idea to him earlier in the year (and according to Easy E, Hogan politely kicked him out of his house for even suggesting it), but when Eric started the whole "third man" angle for Bash At The Beach '96, he didn't have a clue who the 3rd guy was even gonna be (and it hadn't crossed his mind to try and persuade Hogan all over again) until Hogan heard about the angle and called Eric and asked if it could be him. Bischoff confirms this himself in his book.

And I get annoyed when people say Bischoff stole the idea for the NWO from New Japan since it's not really true, but that's a debate for another topic.

 

[Jacob Fox]

Technically, him saying it was his decision to turn heel wasn't a total lie. Yes, it was Bischoff that presented the idea to him earlier in the year (and according to Easy E, Hogan politely kicked him out of his house for even suggesting it), but when Eric started the whole "third man" angle for Bash At The Beach '96, he didn't have a clue who the 3rd guy was even gonna be (and it hadn't crossed his mind to try and persuade Hogan all over again) until Hogan heard about the angle and called Eric and asked if it could be him. Bischoff confirms this himself in his book.

And I get annoyed when people say Bischoff stole the idea for the NWO from New Japan since it's not really true, but that's a debate for another topic.

Well the original third man, according to the inside reports at the time, was Lex Luger. As far as who made the decision on Hogan turning heel, that depends on who you want to believe. Your version was the one given in Hogan's biography. As evidenced in this thread, Hogan's version is not very trustworthy.

And you are technically correct that Bischoff didn't get the NWO concept from Japan. However he did get the idea of Hall and Nash being invaders from WWF from an invasion angle in Japan. However when WWF threatened a lawsuit, he changed the concept into a powerful heel stable. But even Bischoff himself admits the invasion concept was inspired by New Japan.

 

[Jacob Fox]

Solipsism is beautiful.

Best line ever on a wrestling forum.

 

[Prince Bálor]

Best line ever on a wrestling forum.

Saved that quotation, just waiting for the mods to approve it. It needs to have a special place on this forum.

 

[The GOAT]

Well the original third man, according to the inside reports at the time, was Lex Luger. As far as who made the decision on Hogan turning heel, that depends on who you want to believe. Your version was the one given in Hogan's biography. As evidenced in this thread, Hogan's version is not very trustworthy.

And you are technically correct that Bischoff didn't get the NWO concept from Japan. However he did get the idea of Hall and Nash being invaders from WWF from an invasion angle in Japan. However when WWF threatened a lawsuit, he changed the concept into a powerful heel stable. But even Bischoff himself admits the invasion concept was inspired by New Japan.

It's what Bischoff mentions in his autobiography, too, though. I'm pretty sure he also mentions that he didn't know who the third man was gonna be when the angle first began, and he said that the only other person that could have made the right amount of impact other than Hogan was Sting. There were a lot interesting rumors back in the day on who it may have been, though - Sting, Luger, Bret, Michaels, even Undertaker...

And I don't deny that Bischoff was inspired by the New Japan angle, and I hate to squabble over words, but there's a big difference between someone taking inspiration from something and them flat out stealing it entirely.

 

[Jacob Fox]

It's what Bischoff mentions in his autobiography, too, though. I'm pretty sure he also mentions that he didn't know who the third man was gonna be when the angle first began, and he said that the only other person that could have made the right amount of impact other than Hogan was Sting. There were a lot interesting rumors back in the day on who it may have been, though - Sting, Luger, Bret, Michaels, even Undertaker...

And I don't deny that Bischoff was inspired by the New Japan angle, and I hate to squabble over words, but there's a big difference between someone taking inspiration from something and them flat out stealing it entirely.

Yeah, I know. I read both Hogan's and Bischoff's books. However, they're both known for being full of it. As far as the third man, I am completely only going off what were the rumors at the time. It changed between a lot of people and the wrestling line I called at the time didn't even know who it was, but implied that on the day of Bash at the Beach, it was likely either Luger or Hogan. While the phone line may have been incorrect, I am not claiming to actually know who it was supposed to be. I am only passing along the information as I heard it at the time.

Yes, I understand the difference in words but think of it this way. Bischoff saw the Universal Wrestling Federation invade New Japan and later comes up with an angle of the WWE invading WCW. How is that inspiration and not outright stealing? He took the exact same concept that he witnessed somewhere else. Sounds like stealing to me.

Now, where inspiration comes into play is that the WWF invading WCW thing only lasted for a couple of weeks and it involved into the NWO. I agree that this is inpiration. Regardless, in the very beginning he outright stole it.

Edit: and please don't think I'm being argumentative. I'm really just curious about your opinion and not trying to be a jerk

 

[The GOAT]

Yeah, I know. I read both Hogan's and Bischoff's books. However, they're both known for being full of it. As far as the third man, I am completely only going off what were the rumors at the time.

Yes, I understand the difference in words but think of it this way. Bischoff saw the Universal Wrestling Federation invade New Japan and later comes up with an angle of the WWE invading WCW. How is that inspiration and not outright stealing? He took the exact same concept that he witnessed somewhere else. Sounds like stealing to me.

Now, where inspiration comes into play is that the WWF invading WCW thing only lasted for a couple of weeks and it involved into the NWO. I agree that this is inpiration. Regardless, in the very beginning he outright stole it.

Edit: and please don't think I'm being argumentative. I'm really just curious about your opinion and not trying to be a jerk

From what I understand, the UWF "invaders" didn't want to destroy New Japan in the storyline, they simply wanted to come in and prove they were better wrestlers than they were. A sort of heated-but-still-respectful rivalry, if you will. The New World Order, on the other hand, were the conceptual opposite in that they were trying to recruit guys from WCW over to their side and then destroy and dismantle the rest and take over the company. Because of this, they carried more of a gang mentality around with them than the UWF guys did. The NWO name itself, spray-painting their group's initials on production trucks/the backs of fallen enemies/on the world champion belt, a huge babyface like Hulk Hogan turning heel and becoming it's leader, etc. All of it was original.

To be precise, almost no idea (especially in pro wrestling) is 100% original. Not even Romeo and Juliet, hailed as the greatest love story of all-time, was 100% Shakespeare's since he took inspiration from a poem called The Tragicall Historye Of Romeus And Juliet (which itself was inspired by several tragic romances from centuries before.)

(I'm not necessarily being argumentative either, I just feel some people don't want to give Bischoff and WCW enough credit for what they did, whether it's their intention to do so or not.)

 

[Jacob Fox]

Yeah, but that's not what I said. I made a clear distinction between the invasion angle and the NWO. In the beginning, Hall and Nash were simply invaders wanting WCW to put their money where its mouth was. They weren't the NWO. At this point it actually was completely the exact same concept.

Then when WWF threatened to sue, WCW changed the direction of the angle. They dropped the invasion concept and formed the NWO. From then on it ceased being anything like the New Japan story.

So the original invasion concept was taken directly from New Japan. However it evolved into something completely different and that's the point when it becomes an original concept.

And yeah, very few wrestling stories are original. But that doesn't mean the idea is not stolen from anyone else. It just mean most of the storylines are stolen from earlier sourced.

And now I feel bad for hijacking the thread I promise I'll quit now

 

[The GOAT]

The invasion aspect was the same, but I doubt Bischoff would have continued to stick with the whole "WWF wrestlers invading WCW" angle in the long run anyway. There's only so far he could have gone with that, and besides which Hall and Nash never stated that they were from WWF anyway. Just insinuated it by saying they were declaring war on WCW just to get some attention for the angle.

As for what constitutes as "stealing" an idea, I feel generally as long as you put your own original touch on it and tweak something enough, then it's technically "your's", otherwise there's almost nothing that can be said to be original.

All and all, people are still wrong when they say "Bischoff stole the NWO idea from Japan" since by the time the NWO name was even used for the first time, the strongest similarity between the two angles was gone.