THE AGE OF AWESOMENESS HAS STARTED!!!

[noumenon]

Yeah, I'll agree with you on that one. I like how there was actually a bit of back and forth action between the two... almost more than there was in the previous Barrett/Orton encounter. It seemed like it could go either way for a minute there and it was appreciate that it wasn't just a simple Skull Crushing Finale, 1,2,3 finish.
My complaint simply lies in the fact that at this point we've seen it done so many times before. It wasn't a cheated win on behalf of Miz, simply a little bit of right place, right time. I just hoping we're nearing the end of this whole MITB thing for a while now, I think we've seen enough. WWE needs to have the balls to put some of these guys over in legit one on one situations. I'm not saying it needs to be a clean cut 1 on 1 situation but the MITB cash in start title reigns off on the wrong foot for anyone. Whether it be a lucky face or opportunistic heel it just raises questions on their capabilities to actually hold the belt.

Anyway on a side note, anyone else catch Riley say 'YOUR WHOLE FUCKING LIFE!' extremely clearly while walking up the ramp with Miz. The guy is on a roll huh?

 

[Kaedon]

You're not watching if you think Kane is more over. Dolph isn't over, Vickie is and she's 90% of his heat, dude has nothing going for him without her.

Dude was over long before Vickie got to him. Dolph is Miz with wrestling ability and a little less personality, but they are pretty much the same character.

And if Kane isn't over, then why is he getting the biggest heat on SD? It doesn't matter what the guy does, the people want to see him, because he's good, AND HES WORKED LONG AND HARD TO BECOME SO!! unlike the Miz.

As far as the Nexus, when they're not attacking Cena, everyone's apathetic to them, only one who gets heat outside of Barrett is Heath because of the Wendy chants Cena originated Cole??

Yeah and why is it that unless Miz is running his mouth, IE when he's wrestling someone who's a jobber like him, there's almost no reaction?

No. Sheamus is getting John Morrison over, something they've been waiting over a year for someone to do.

Dude, Morrison IS over. Has been so for at least a year and a half now.

You're not defining anything as much as you're singing Rey's praises, and hey, I agree with that. Doesn't mean it makes him more qualified to be a world champ because he was over for a long period of time, as compared to a guy who's been hot for a year.

Actually it does. It means YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED ALMOST EVERYTHING THERE IS TO EXPERIENCE, which makes you more valuable then some flash in the pan.

If you're hot, you're hot, strike while the iron's hot. They didn't wait years and years for the Rock and Austin. Know why? Because THAT'S A STUPID IDEA. Why would you wait to put the strap on someone a decade after they orignally got hot and obviously risk losing their heat?

Using that logic, Santino should be world champ. He's almost more over than anyone.

Comparing Rey's situation and Miz doesn't make sense. The situations are completely different.

Yeah, Rey has experience and talent, Miz has the ability to be an annoying prick. Yippeee. What else makes him qualified to be THE GUY in the wwe?

In 2006 the E's main event scene was BLOATED. They had legit main eventers in HBK, HHH, Taker, Batista, Cena, Orton and Kurt Angle. Edge was on the cusp, Rey, while incredibly over might have never won the world title had it not been for Eddy's death. It was exploitation all the way through, from Rany's tasteless comments to the Guerreros coming out to celebrate Rey's win and it was such a throwaway match. Plus there's a reason Rey had to wait 4 years before another run.

Right now, if you haven't noticed, the E is in a giant transition and infusing youth is their top priority. Outside of Taker, Orton , Edge and Cena, the talent drop off in bonafide main eventers is huge. That's why Sheamus, Barrett, Swagger and Miz have been given shots in the title picture. They need stars NOW, not ten years down the road. It doesn't matter if Miz hasn't had awesome matches for years, neither did Rock, but he has an undeniable charisma that needs to be capitalized on.

Thanks captain obvious, Rey got the title while legit mains were around and instead Rey got the title and worked out alright. Miz, is the best of a bunch of shit, yeah that's a compliment.

Hogan. Big boot. Leg drop. Made millions.

He also had the greatest comeback in the history of the business. And, when he had to, he wrestled with anyone.

Besides Austin, who did Bret turn into a main eventer? No one. HBK was mad over on his own, the only thing Bret ever did was put him over for the strap, but he didn't make anyone a main eventer.

Bret Hart started putting HBK over at the Survivor Series in the mid 90s. They had some of the greatest matches the WWE has ever seen, and the champion Bret, gave everything he had to get HBK from IC Title dude to sealing his main event run. Bret got Austin over, but when I talk about getting guys over, I talk about his toiling in the midcard for 10 years in the WWE putting over blueberries like the Warrior and making them look 100x better than they ever were. Miz can't do that because he has no talent.

You mustn't know much about Piper if you think he got people over in the ring. Piper admits that if he lacked his gift for gab that he'd have been nothing in the ring. Top mic worker of all time, sub par in the ring.

I didn't say Piper just got people over in the ring, but lets be honest, he was given shit like Bad News Brown, Mr. T, and that fat cross dressing woman he beat at WM 3, and he had some of the most memorable moments in the WWE. What has Miz ever done that rates up with Piper? Nothing.

Miz is a top mic worker and an above average worker right now. He has already gotten someone over and has only been in the ring a fraction of the time the people you mentioned were.

Yeah the fact that Bryan Danielson was pretty much known by half the WWE audience had nothing to do with it. He HELPED get Bryan over, but he's not a star maker. Miz has to be given a title to get over.

You're talking about guys who had been wrestling 10-20 years before they became legendary and yet you fail to recognize the beginning of what could become a legendary career for the Miz and it seems you're butthurt because he doesn't fit your criteria to be a world champ while ignoring the circumstances the company is in and why he's in the position he's in.

you're not taking into account that pretty much everyone who has been thrown the title has fallen flat after a year or two. Shemus was working with Santino, Swagger is walking around with a fucking EAGLE right now. The Miz is the Backstreet Boys of wrestling, he's hot for now, but until he gets staying power, he's just like so many others. A lot of people can "get hot" not many people can sustain it, I'm betting Miz can't.

You don't like the guy, fine, but it just makes sense to give him his shot. He's hot. He's got mad mic skills, which historically take you further in this biz than mat skills and the E is in need of main event talent now.

I'll give him a shot in another year or so after he has more experience under his belt. You want to talk about history, tell me where guys who were shoved into the main event spot in major companies are now....Goldberg, Brock Lesnar, The Great Khali, Bobby Lashley, these no talent guys who got HOT FOR A WHILE BUT DIDNT HAVE THE CHOPS TO CARRY SHIT. 3 of them are out of the business, and the 4th is a side show, which is all Shemus and Jack Swagger are at this point thanks to WWE booking.


And no, CMS, I don't hate on everyone new in the WWE main event scene. Batista, Randy Orton, and John Cena were fine when they got their first titles (well maybe not Orton cuz he was a face) but they were over for a while. You can't just debut a guy and have him win the title. That's crap. You want to elevate a guy? Fine. Have him beat the champ, cool, but don't just throw the title on some guy just because he's over for a few months.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

I'll give him a shot in another year or so after he has more experience under his belt. You want to talk about history, tell me where guys who were shoved into the main event spot in major companies are now....Goldberg, Brock Lesnar, The Great Khali, Bobby Lashley, these no talent guys who got HOT FOR A WHILE BUT DIDNT HAVE THE CHOPS TO CARRY SHIT. 3 of them are out of the business, and the 4th is a side show, which is all Shemus and Jack Swagger are at this point thanks to WWE booking.

What a terrible argument. Awful. Goldberg was still over as fuck till the day his contract was up both in the E and WCW. Lesnar was still over as fuck. Lashley was getting over. And here's what you failed to mention that totally makes this your worst argument: none of them are in the business BECAUSE THEY QUIT ON THEIR OWN. Goldberg and Lesnar were wildly successful, you're attempting to make it sound liked they flamed out and were excommunicated in the biz when in reality, they got the fame from being wildly successful in wrestling, decided they had enough and made money elsewhere, Goldberg in acting and television and Brock becoming the MMA posterboy. Terrible argument.

Khali was given the belt for two reasons; lack of depth on SD and because he draws fuckloads and fuckloads of cash in the Arab nations. His title reign was no less successful than Rey's, who's first initial reign was awful. Who are you trying to kid saying it turned out alright? Dude jobbed at every corner to guys like Khali and Mark Henry and whomever the fuck else .
Hart didn't put HBK over at Survivor Series 92, HBK would toil in the mid card for another 4 years making a name for himself with ladder matches and a Mania main event against Diesel. And Bad News Brown and Adrian Adonis, even at his advanced weight, were better in ring workers. But try and name one guy outside of Hogan/T and Hart Piper got over? He spent a vast majority of his career as a talk segment host, helping to advance feuds but not necessarily putting people over.

Know why they paired Vickie with Ziggler? Because he wasn't over. And he's not a better wrestler than the Miz, you like to point out sloppy finishers, the Zig Zag is probably the move most often mis-executed. He's athletic but has such a generic look and almost no charisma. His promos are just awful. Want to see the difference between Miz and Ziggler in the ring? Go check out their matches with Danielson, Ziggs gets carried while Miz more than holds his own.

 

[Kaedon]

What a terrible argument. Awful. Goldberg was still over as fuck till the day his contract was up both in the E and WCW. Lesnar was still over as fuck. Lashley was getting over. And here's what you failed to mention that totally makes this your worst argument: none of them are in the business BECAUSE THEY QUIT ON THEIR OWN.Goldberg and Lesnar were wildly successful, you're attempting to make it sound liked they flamed out and were excommunicated in the biz when in reality, they got the fame from being wildly successful in wrestling, decided they had enough and made money elsewhere, Goldberg in acting and television and Brock becoming the MMA posterboy. Terrible argument.

No, the Rock left when he got famous. He left ON TOP, Goldberg and Lesnar left with one of the worst matches in the history of the WWE and the only reason they got any reaction in that match was because they were in MSG and because Austin was there and stunned them like the chumpstains they are. If they came back now, they'd not get anywhere NEAR the same reaction they got back then. The Rock, however, would get the same reaction no matter what because he's better than all of them, hands down.

Khali was given the belt for two reasons; lack of depth on SD and because he draws fuckloads and fuckloads of cash in the Arab nations.

Yes, the WWE gave him the title to tap into the Indian market that makes perfect business sense. Lets give the title to Yoshi Tatsu so they can get that coveted Japanese market. He got the title for the same reason Miz did, he was hot for a second. He was, like Miz, the top of a pile of shit of mediocrity.

His title reign was no less successful than Rey's, who's first initial reign was awful. Who are you trying to kid saying it turned out alright? Dude jobbed at every corner to guys like Khali and Mark Henry and whomever the fuck else .

If it was so bad, why didn't Rey's popularity suffer? Oh yeah, that's right, because unlike MIZ HE DOESN'T NEED TO BE GIVEN A TITLE TO GET OVER!!

Hart didn't put HBK over at Survivor Series 92, HBK would toil in the mid card for another 4 years making a name for himself with ladder matches and a Mania main event against Diesel.

Yes, the fact that he had a classic match with the star of the company had nothing to do with him getting over. Riiiiiiiight.

And Bad News Brown and Adrian Adonis, even at his advanced weight, were better in ring workers. But try and name one guy outside of Hogan/T and Hart Piper got over?

That's more than Miz has ever done. Next.

Know why they paired Vickie with Ziggler? Because he wasn't over. And he's not a better wrestler than the Miz, you like to point out sloppy finishers, the Zig Zag is probably the move most often mis-executed.

Yes and the face first russian leg sweep wasn't overused by...uh....everyone.

He's athletic but has such a generic look and almost no charisma. His promos are just awful. Want to see the difference between Miz and Ziggler in the ring? Go check out their matches with Danielson, Ziggs gets carried while Miz more than holds his own.

if by holding his own, you mean Miz pranced around and let Danielson sell like a motherfucker, because that's what he does, then yes. Danielson carried them both because, in reality they both kinda suck in the ring. Ziggler slghtly less than Miz.

I also like how you ignored the rest of your argument that I eviscerated, but whatever, it's your show Enzo.

 

[Quintastic One]

Whoever claims that the Miz is not over is diluting themselves, only listening to the reactions they WANT to listen to.

You see, I've actually been watching RAW for the past several months, and have spoken with people who have actually attended live events, and the Miz gets LEGITIMATE heat. You can't argue with factual results. Whether you want to insist that he's over or not, you're only making yourself look like a fool by denying reality.

If you're going to debate about how good the Miz is, debate him on his merits. Comparative mic skills, in ring talent, merchandise sales, drawing power, marketability, "It" factor, whatever. But for the sake of sanity do NOT claim that he is something he isn't. That goes for both sides of this debate. He is not an undercard jobber nor is he the second coming of the Rock. He's The Miz, and he is Awesome.

 

[Kaedon]

I'm not saying he's not over, I'm saying it doesn't matter. I'd be fine with him being in the main event scene, but not winning the title. He's got mediocre in ring skills, he did nothing for the US title just like he'll do NOTHING for the world heavyweight title. He's not Ric Flair, he's David Arquette.

 

[Quintastic One]

You're right about the US Title, considering the best thing he ever did with that thing was drop it to Daniel Bryan. Which is unfortunate because RAW's otherwise deep midcard has been suffering due to Miz's lack of attention to it.

But to be fair, he's got better ring skill than David Arquette. lol.

I called his title win from a mile away. I thought for sure he was going to lose so long as he was U.S. champion, because I figured WWE would make him pay for not defending it by trying to cash in and have R Truth run out again and cost him the title shot because he had unfinished business in the mid card.

But the moment he was free of the mid card title, I knew it was just a matter of time. If only because if he lost after losing so many big PPV's in a row, and then failed to win the title on top of everything, he'd be lower on the card than Evan Bourne.

 

[jerseyboybastard]

I don't know if these count as goofs or mistakes in logic concerning the whole segment, but they came to mind as I watched things go down.

1. When the ref returns to the ring after having been pulled out by Cena so that John could attack Wade, why doesn't he immediately call for the bell and consider it a no contest? He may not have seen Cena attack anyone, but it should be blindly obvious that he was accosted by an outsider, hence a call to end the match.

2. When the Miz cashes in his briefcase a la Edge and Punk (is there no other creative way to cash in?) why doesn't Randy just leave with the title and be counted out? He's not completely a face and by losing by count out, he still retains the title and would have outsmarted Miz in the process, so it's not exactly cowardly. Plus next week, Orton could open the show by saying that if Miz wants a title shot, he should have done it the fair way and challenged Orton at TLC but now instead Randy's challenging him.

I don't hate the Miz winning the title. I just feel the way he won is very derivative of what we've already seen in the past and I expected something a little more clever and unique out of his character. I certainly don't expect this title reign to last very long.

 

[jerseyboybastard]

Whoever claims that the Miz is not over is diluting themselves, only listening to the reactions they WANT to listen to.

Not to be a grammar nazi, but it should be "deluding themselves." Diluting themselves means they're getting watered down.

 

[Quintastic One]

No wonder I couldn't experience the full flavor of this thread. It was diluted from the start.

 

[Airfixx]

Kane.... It doesn't matter what the guy does, the people want to see him, because he's good, AND HES WORKED LONG AND HARD TO BECOME SO!! unlike the Miz.

So you refuse to acknowledge that Miz, by the same token, has worked hard over the last 5 years to become "good"? ...And that at the very least he has become good?


Dude... You had all this Miz-'hate' before you left the forum, It'd have thought it'd have mellowed by now.


Is Miz still getting, by your estimation, booed out of the building or are you prepared to accept he gets genuine heat yet?





You also seem to be of the opinion that Miz should somehow have achieved during 3 years on the main roster that which Hart & Piper had during careers which had already spanned 3 or 4 times that length.

Tell me, who had Bret put over during his first 4 or 5 years of being in WWE? …Danny Davis? …The Rougeau Brothers? :roll:


How about Piper (wherever he was working in the early days)?

 

[Kaedon]

I'm not saying he's not good, I'm not even saying he's not ready to be a main eventer, I'm saying HE'S NOT READY TO BE THE WWE CHAMPION!!

And no, I'm not saying he should have achieved in 5 years, what took Piper and Hart a decade to achieve, I'm saying HE SHOULD TAKE A DECADE TO ACHIEVE IT BEFORE HE IS GIVEN THE TITLE!!! Prove that you can carry shit before you just slap the title on a guy. It happens all too much now a days. That's why Edge's world title reigns are better than Jack Thwaggers or Miz's. PERIOD.

And who else did Bret put over when he first got there? The Bulldogs, Strike Force, and pretty much every tag team he and Anvil worked with.

 

[FabulousRougeauBrother]

I'm curious, who on the Raw roster do you think is worthy of being champion according to your criteria?

 

[pumpt73]

I'm not saying he's not over, I'm saying it doesn't matter. I'd be fine with him being in the main event scene, but not winning the title. He's got mediocre in ring skills, he did nothing for the US title just like he'll do NOTHING for the world heavyweight title. He's not Ric Flair, he's David Arquette.

Kaedon, I don't think anyone here is saying he's Flair and I don't think anyone is saying the guy is one of the best in ring technicians today. But in the WWE Universe, Miz works just fine. It's already been said. Maybe he doesn't have the "It" factor now, but in due time. His popularity is growing and growing. And sure, maybe he's not ready to be WWE Champion now, but many think Flair wasn't ready for his first run. Love him or hate him, he's going to be a multiple time champion. Next, why does it even matter??? Why get so worked up about something that you know isn't going to last?? WWE knows that it has to start getting it's younger talent pushed to the top because let's face it, Undertaker, Hunter, etc etc can't go forever. Miz doesn't even have to open his mouth and he gets a reaction. But if you want to get all worked up over something that's really so insignificant in the grand scheme of life, so be it. I'll just shrug my shoulders and wait for the eventual title change to happen.

 

[TombstoneCity1387]

I'm not saying he's not good, I'm not even saying he's not ready to be a main eventer, I'm saying HE'S NOT READY TO BE THE WWE CHAMPION!!

And no, I'm not saying he should have achieved in 5 years, what took Piper and Hart a decade to achieve, I'm saying HE SHOULD TAKE A DECADE TO ACHIEVE IT BEFORE HE IS GIVEN THE TITLE!!! Prove that you can carry shit before you just slap the title on a guy. It happens all too much now a days. That's why Edge's world title reigns are better than Jack Thwaggers or Miz's. PERIOD.

And who else did Bret put over when he first got there? The Bulldogs, Strike Force, and pretty much every tag team he and Anvil worked with.

You said it yourself: he AND ANVIL. Bret, as a singles star, didn't really help to elevate anyone in his career.