Raw 3-7

[He who knows more than Nation]

^^^^ WM with Booker, Josh & Cole in the booth will be fucking awfull.... Look no further than what SD has become.




Kinda missed my point. The crux of my comment was about having to build storylines for an ENTIRE card..... ie. including the mid/lower carders due to the apparent absence of MITB. That said, if it wasn't for the Christian stuff they had on the back burner, the WHC ME would have nothing more than current Champ vs his latests challenger to get your teeth into (+ if Christian DOESN'T screw Edge on the night the whole Christian angle would have been meaningless, Del Rio comes out on top without even embarking on a revenge fued and Christian trickles even lower down the card.).

SCSA as guest ref has killed the heelish advantage that Cole needed to be seen to have. It's now advantage Lawler IMO and it reeks of just shoeing SCSA in somewhere just cos he's under contract. It would have been far less disruptive to have him ref one of the other matches.

Sheamus v Bryan if it goes ahead seems like nothing but pure afterthought having gone cold on the idea of a blow-off match with HHH... And I'm not anticipating guys like JoMo, Kofi, Ziggler and a few other notables to get any better. (Besides, we've been complaining forever that WWE have forgotten how to, or even that they need to, build mid-card fueds.)

Furthermore, due to these examples, I'm actually concerned about them undoing some of the good work they HAVE done.



Side note, the card HAS captured my imagination, it's just that, to me, the most exciting/intriguing outcomes to all the big matches would require run-ins and screw jobs (i.e Christian screws Edge, HBK screws HHH, Rock screws Cena, JR shows up.) which isn't good for a show like Mania.... I'm a big advocate of WM being about blow-off matches, not setting up the following few months.

Why? Why not clean finishes? Taker-Trips doesn't need HBK whatsoever as much as it pains me to say that being the biggest HBK mark there is. Why does Rock need to screw Cena, when it will/could probably be an Austin-Tyson type moment with the Miz getting a Peoples Elbow-5 knuckle shuffle combo. And of course JR is showing up, they've been alluding to that for awhile now with Cole calling himself the voice of the WWE and it would be suicidal to have any combo of Booker/Matthews/Striker/Grish without JR to carry them. Lawler wins handily and he and JR call the rest of Manai, plus you know how Trips loves having JR call his matches and Michael Cole flat out sucks at delivering any form of drama.

 

[...god...]

also don't see what was wrong with Cena's second promo, it was good. His character just blows and is absolutely nothing and shit compared to The Rock's.

 

[Kaedon]

I think you guys are taking this play by play/color thing too seriously. I remember a day when people hated on Michael Cole and then after a while, it just stopped, and no it wasn't when he adopted this heel persona. The fact of the matter is, unless the announcer is really good or really bad, they are pretty much irrelevant. The guys you all are worried about aren't stumbling over their words like some intern fresh out of college, they've been calling matches for years now and while they aren't JR, they aren't like the kids who line up at the WM "Call a match" booth either, so chill out and enjoy the show. Hell, go to a bar where there will be so much activity going on that you wont be able to hear the commentary unless you specifically listen for it.

 

[Montana]

I think Cena's rap this week, shows why he doesn't do it every week, cause there would be nothing to rap about.

I have the feeling the Rock is going to help Miz win at Mania. It seems odd most all of the build up/ hype has been around Cena/Rock and it feels like just last week the Miz is getting more involved.

A rather lackluster return for Austin...and not real sure why's he's referee in Lawler/Cole.

Overall the build up has been good compared to years past, however the match ups aren't exactly setting the world on fire. The under card is shaping up nicely, if the rumored matches are true.

 

[Lady Redfield]

Does anyone else think it's stupid how things are being brought to Twitter?

Small 'complaint', but, it's fucking stupid. OMG U SAID WUT ON TWITTER????///?


Sad to see Sheamus being raped....but, then again, once he won that pathetic King of the Ring and started to come out with a cheap crown and outfit, I had a feeling he would just go downhill from there.

 

[Airfixx]

I think you guys are taking this play by play/color thing too seriously. I remember a day when people hated on Michael Cole and then after a while, it just stopped, and no it wasn't when he adopted this heel persona.

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but I was hating on face Cole to the very end and whilst his heel persona has been amusing at times, it's far too much like the Michal Cole show these days and he's spending time gettig himself over when he should be selling the angles on our screens.

The fact of the matter is, unless the announcer is really good or really bad, they are pretty much irrelevant.

Agreed, but the announce talent they have is all of a sudden pretty damn bad and thus isn't irrelevant to whether or not I'll enjoy Mania.

Hell, go to a bar where there will be so much activity going on that you wont be able to hear the commentary unless you specifically listen for it.

Bizarre concept to me, considering a) you won't find anywhere in the UK showing wrestling, Mania or otherwise, and b) have you ever watched wrestling with the sound off? ...It sucks! You need decent commentary to aid the suspention of disbelief.

 

[Airfixx]

^Stone Cold has proven in the past that he can be an unbiased referee, and IMO, this sets everything up perfectly for a possibility of SCSA being the Raw GM (if they do possibly go that route). This is even more intriguing based on the fact that WWE just copyrighted the Sheriff Austin moniker, what a perfect way to set up a Cole firing the Raw after Mania to send him over to Smackdown and bring JR back, although JR seems content to stay off of television. Not suggesting any of this actually goes down, but the prospective future does build itself from this.. it gets fans talking about what if's and could be's. Besides, we've still got time to cement Austin in this match, and you're totally forgetting of the possibility of Rock getting involved in that match as well for an epic staredown to close out WrestleMania with the Rattlesnake.

...An impartial ref would still neutralise any threat that Swagger brings.

Bottom line is without a corrupt ref all we have is Cole (a ring virgin) vs Lawler (One of the most decorated wrestlers of all time)... They've fucked up the dynamic of what was until a sweet angle (Even if we weren't destined for 5-start awesomeness).

Rock/Austin staredown: Coulda still happened if he was just as lazily shoes into someone elses match.

And why you need Christian to turn on Edge is absurd.

I didn't say "need".

To me, it's looking like they're trying to find a way to shoot Christian into the match. The build has been cool, but how many times can we see Edge get his arm attacked and not believe he has further damage to the point he has to back out? Bringing in Christian has given them outlets to not bury Edge and avoid the old "he can't use the Spear with a bad shoulder" crap. Again, we're still looking at time to build this up, and I like the possibility of Smackdown after Mania having Christian challenge Edge (if he retains) as payment for his helping him out and having Del Rio interfere in Christian's title matches. You'd have a solid three-person main event feud to build around for months.

Sorry, but that all just sounds like the kinda shit you'd expect at a B-grade ppv, not WM.

At this point, I'd rather see Christian v Del Rio (and no, I'm NOT one Christians die hard marks still clinging to the notion of him being a world champ for WWE.)

The Rock doesn't need to interfere in the WWE Championship match, and nothing has suggested it will have to. We might see a face-off early, or we'll more than likely see on after the match. Miz vs. Cena is intriguing enough without Rock, but with Rock (of course you have to write him into it with Cena and hosting Mania) it has skyrocketed, and we're assuming that means a Rock interference? It doesn't need to happen, and I'd honestly be more surprised if it DID happen. Miz has done an incredible job building to the fact that this feud doesn't need the Rock, but he's capitalizing off of Cena being distracted, yet at the same time, trying to skyrocket himself. (BTW, just to speculate as a fan, but could you imagine the heat Miz gets at WrestleMania if he gets the upperhand after his match and hits The Rock with the SKF!?!?)

And why on Earth would HBK have to interfere and screw Triple H? That honestly kills the build of Triple H having to die trying to defeat Taker. This is honestly one match that I now want to take for what it's worth. Triple H is getting his own super-build leading up to Mania with an out of shape Taker (whom they can bury all year until next January for all I care to play up to this "all he has left to do is defend the streak") and if Triple H crashes and burns, it's spectacular. If Taker crashes, who the Hell would have imagined it? No-DQ stipulations or not, I want absolutely no outside interference in this match.

Oh, and you can count on Sheamus not being a part of WrestleMania. I'll put money on him losing next week and he'll make his return in June sometime (hopefully to build the Celtic Connection).

Granted HHH/Taker can (hopefully) stand alone on match quality, but I still have my reservations based on what we saw of Taker during his fued with Kane and the addition of the No-DQ stip, but all in all you clearly missed my point - These aren't predictions or what I want to see... It's that the most compelling outcomes would require run-ins etc. and as I say that just isn't WM-calibre.

Why? Why not clean finishes? Taker-Trips doesn't need HBK whatsoever as much as it pains me to say that being the biggest HBK mark there is.

See above comments about the match.

Why does Rock need to screw Cena, when it will/could probably be an Austin-Tyson type moment with the Miz getting a Peoples Elbow-5 knuckle shuffle combo.

Again, it seems necessary to point out that I was commenting upon what would be the most compelling outcomes to said matches.... You find that as a prospective outcome compelling?

To me that would be a really weak pay-off to a 7 year wait for the return of The Rock.

And of course JR is showing up, they've been alluding to that for awhile now with Cole calling himself the voice of the WWE and it would be suicidal to have any combo of Booker/Matthews/Striker/Grish without JR to carry them. Lawler wins handily and he and JR call the rest of Manai, plus you know how Trips loves having JR call his matches and Michael Cole flat out sucks at delivering any form of drama.

Yeah, well that is the one match I have no qualms about it turning into a clusterfuck of run-ins etc....

 

[MizMasta3000]

Anyone else confused as to what the main event ACTUALLY will be? Cole is hyping his as the ME, Miz is hyping his match the ME, commentators are hyping HHH/Taker and also Edge/Del Rio?

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Airfixx, you said "the most intriguing outcomes would require run-ins"; require literally means need.


I get your point now, though I still object. Nothing in any of these storylines insist that they need run-ins to be intriguing. It seems as though you're of the idea that none of these matches could finish cleanly in any intriguing way. It would shake the wrestling world to have Miz go over clean (although I'm almost positive we can write this match off as going to Cena) and that possibility alone sells that match.

Not knowing if Christian will be involved in any capacity adds some intrigue. But the fact he has been saving Edge keeps fans believing Edge has a chance to defend himself at WrestleMania. It automatically points to the bulk of the physical damage having to be done at Mania in the match.

I don't disagree that Austin kind of overshadows the entire situation and was sloppily thrown into the mix of a rather incredible storyline, but if creative haven't dropped the ball on this one yet, I'll take my chances over the next couple of weeks believing they can write Austin into this perfectly. Although, it would have been far more believable to write Rock into this one (had he not been the host) due to his history with Cole.

As far as the Taker-HHH stuff; you're basing your judgment on Nexus interfering with Taker vs. Kane? I wouldn't be surprised with interference, but IMO, the way it's being built, you've got nothing to gain from HBK interfering in this match unless he turns on Triple H... but there's no point in selling that the deck is stacked against Triple H already with the Streak and then adding interference to further bury Triple H AT Mania. It also completely buries Undertaker's prowess to need HBK's interference, and you'd almost REQUIRE seeing HBK return for a feud with Triple H. The other way around, you'd NEED to have HBK return to compete with Taker eventually. Would it be an intriguing finish? Sure. Is it the only way you sell that match as intriguing? Absolutely not. It's being built amazingly, tbh, and if it ends cleanly in favor of either Taker or Triple H... there's intrigue behind it based on the kill or die trying mentality they've built for both superstars.

 

[Montana]

Does anyone else think it's stupid how things are being brought to Twitter?

Small 'complaint', but, it's fucking stupid. OMG U SAID WUT ON TWITTER????///?


Sad to see Sheamus being raped....but, then again, once he won that pathetic King of the Ring and started to come out with a cheap crown and outfit, I had a feeling he would just go downhill from there.

I agree, I think using the internet to promote is good, however why not post a exclusive youtube video.

I agree about Sheamus...i saw this coming, but i didn't think it would be this bad. When Miz won the belt, i knew he'd be treading water for a while. Looks like he will need to be moved to SD, but then again you have Del Rio, Barrett, and even Mcintyre and Rhodes over there. It's going to be a rough year for him. Even Wade Barrett for that matter. I'm not a big fan of these half ass pushes..(see Jack Swagger )

 

[noumenon]

The problem is that Sheamus wasn't a "half ass push"... it was a full fledged push to the top with two title reigns at the beginning of the year followed by shelving Triple fucking H then winning the KOTR tournament and competing in a series of some of the year's best matches with Jomo. We're suddenly supposed to believe the guy can't gain a single victory? I dunno...

 

[Montana]

Well... maybe "half ass" isn't the best phasing, but they started, and didn't finish the job with him. The 2 title wins was looking like he's going to be pushed to the moon. Then Wade Barrett came along and took a lot of attention from Sheamus. TO me, he only won King of the Ring, so that he'd still be considered a top guy, while down on the midcard. They used Sheamus to help put over Morrison, but Morrison never got the opportunity to rise to the main event. Since then Miz is the new top heel and CM Punk and Barrett switched spots, which puts SHeamus as the #3 heel.

Then goes back to what i've been saying for a while....too many heels, not enough faces. Who's the #3 face on Raw? Morrison/Danielson? #3 is not a good spot to be in the WWE. Now you have your #3 faces that the WWE should be trying to elevate up to main event status, but the WWE has little confidence in them. You have Sheamus who's a two time champ. You either have Sheamus Job to these guys, in a effort to establish some decent faces, or you have Sheamus squash them and no upcoming faces that would be in line for a main event push.

It's a bad spot to be in.

 

[Kaedon]

Agreed, but the announce talent they have is all of a sudden pretty damn bad and thus isn't irrelevant to whether or not I'll enjoy Mania.



Bizarre concept to me, considering a) you won't find anywhere in the UK showing wrestling, Mania or otherwise, and b) have you ever watched wrestling with the sound off? ...It sucks! You need decent commentary to aid the suspention of disbelief.

I don't need commentary to aid in the suspension of disbelief. Do you need commentary when you're watching a movie or a TV show? And what, may I ask, makes these guys SOO BAD? Just because they aren't JR? Congrats, no one's JR. That doesn't mean they aren't passable at doing their jobs.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Aside from Cole, commentating really does suck in the WWE right now. I mean, I do get a kick out of Booker and Cole going back and forth at times, but it's honestly a bit ridiculous most of the time. And while I insist Cole is the only shining spot, it's not much of a shining spot at all... he generates heat AWAY from the booth, but in it, he's still a little tool who honestly doesn't fit the bill of this heel announcer he's supposed to be.

I get that the crowd never would have been behind Cole enough to push Jerry as the heel again... but if anyone in this business is going to be a heel commentator, it's King. I'd give credit and hope for a JBL return, but I highly doubt that ever happens. And how Josh Matthews is announcing is beyond me... he's even more of a tool than Cole, and that's pretty damn unbelievable. Granted, he knows a bit about the in-ring work and doesn't tend to call an RKO a reverse bulldog... he's just absolutely boring as Hell, and the lack of charisma he had as a wrestler hasn't found it's way to him through commentating.

I wish I could see an honestly good decision to move certain people while bringing JR back to Raw with King as a Heel... but let's be absolutely realistic... ain't gonna happen, ever.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

I don't need commentary to aid in the suspension of disbelief. Do you need commentary when you're watching a movie or a TV show? And what, may I ask, makes these guys SOO BAD? Just because they aren't JR? Congrats, no one's JR. That doesn't mean they aren't passable at doing their jobs.

No, but in sports you do. And WWE is still rooted in sports entertainment. Commentating is a huge part of a wrestling match, that's why commentating has been apart of wrestling since it's television inception and having sub par commentary detracts from matches. Cole is OK at best but no one on the roster can convey drama and a big match feel the way JR can. Last year's last two Mania matches were awesome. but they were lacking something, especially HBK-Taker, that much needed dramatic element that only commentary provides. Cole just doesn't have that and let's not get started on Matthews, Grish, and Striker. Lawler and Booker aren't supposed to convey the drama, they're the color commentators, but your lead PBP man is supposed to do.