Early Plans of John Cena and CM punk for summerslam revealed

[Irish Mark]

This one's easy to book. Assuming Punk beats Kane and/or Bryan at MitB, have him cut a worked shoot promo about how he still isn' getting the respect he deserves as WWE champ, how Cena is still in the same spot he was a year ago; how Punk can't get in the main event even though he's the third longest reigning WWE champ in 15 years blah blah blah. I'd have Punk retain at SS but lose it to Cena at Night of Champions in Cena's home town, Boston, much like Punk won it in Chicago last yr.

 

[Defiant]

I suppose the best way to get the title back in the spotlight where it belongs would be to give it back to John Cena, like him or not. But other than that, Im not sure how to feel about this. It depends on how they set it up and how it will differ from last year.

 

[SAIYANS]

Not gonna get in a all day debate about this but Punk is a made main eventer without a doubt he just isn't THE guy who is at the point where he is beyond the WWE title like Hogan was by the time them 90's came around which is why they will go out of their way to make his feud the main feud. I know Punk isn't your favorite guy in the world for whatever reason and that's fine but give the man some credit for being a guy who is now one of their main work horses to the point where they got him doing SD live shows to boost ticket sales and they actually depend him the way they depend on Cena to carry the load and whatever slack that is leftover.

Shouldn't the fact that the guys they have had Punk go against defending his title not be on his level attributed to the fact that it's a good thing that he's at that point where he could actually put someone over and it mean something? Also the fact that WWE has done a horrid job at making credible heels this year? Punk had gone way beyond the "ceiling" you gave him this time last year and you just seemed dead set against giving the man his props like you're Skip Bayless and he is LeBron or something.

Not saying Punk is some huge draw or anything but if Punk was seen as some transitionally guy like you make him out to be the title would have been off Punk long ago instead of him being on the verge of actuallyto be breaking Cena days as champion and being depended on.

to be a true main eventer he would have to

A) go over real made main eventers clean as a face like HHH, Cena, and so on

STRIKE ONE!

B) face credible challengers not Jericho to up the prestige of his reign

STRIKE TWO!

C) not lose viewers on a weekly and monthly basis which is needed to make guys like Bryan and Del Rio, not a smaller audience watching those guys and thus making wwe say fuck it we sure can't let these bozos main event if they lose viewers every quarter as no one is paying to see their shit finish a show on ppv

STRIKE THREE!

They half assed it with his momentum as he came back way too soon after winning last year, then went on to lose to HHH and never beat Cena clean, and then to top it off stuck his with a B level guy at his best in Jericho and guys lower than that in Bryan and El Rio, thus making Kane the most credible guy he has beaten (and AJ is the only reason for that) clean

The time is now for Cena. Hell it's been a longtime coming for the belts to have a credible world champ who can actually make a rising star like Dolph, Bryan, and so on much like he vaulted Punk up a level from heel joke who got himself and his stables destoryed to what he is now, as people will tune into Cena and stay to watch what he does, thus it is more effective to get a guy more over as he gets a larger audience and real big match experience just being in the ppv ring with him for the strap

Lastly, Miz had a more impressive reign in terms of who he faced. He held it for a good length of time. He didn't lose as many viewers. Hell his heel run beats anything Punk ever accomplished as a villain in wwe. That said, Punk may have length on him, but at the end of the day it is a damn shame Miz had a reign that meant more for the title itself than a guy who has held it almost as long as Super Cena at his height.

Props given for selling on SD, but let's be real here. It isn't as impressive as Batista going to SD and selling or Edge or Taker. It's impressive because Randy ficking sucks at it. That said if Rey or Henry were around it wouldn't matter and he wouldn't have even been sent there and you know it.

 

[Kiffy Lube]

Man, SAIYANS if I didn't care about match quality maybe I would care about half the stuff you posted there.

 

[SAIYANS]

Are you arguing that Punk vs Bryan is IC title worthy at best 5 or 10 years ago? Like I said in the Kelly thread, they are where they are because of atrophy not their talent alone. They are there because they are the upper echelon of a depleted roster, and the company knows it. They wouldn't sniff that spot with Rey, JBL, Taker, Edge, Jeff, Dave, HBK, Trips, Flair, and the like available. The company knows it and that is why they don't close shows or ppvs. The fans know it which is why they lose viewers every quarter and have for months on end, week after week. Punk himself knew it which is why he got defensive on twitter when teased about it and why he bitched and moaned last year before letting his deal expired for any possible leverage. They are type cast out of their niche because the company has no choice and they devalue the title by simply not being good enough. The WWE title deserves better than what it is getting, as do fans who pay good money to see real main event talent that the company had accustomed them to, but sadly after Cena, they are just what is left, the best of it actually, so you have to roll with it and hope Cena can make someone better than them, a prodigy is discovered, or a guy like Dave ot HHH or HBK etc wants a last full time run

 

[Kiffy Lube]

No, it's because I don't think like a casual fan or care what they want. I just want quality wrestling. If that hurts buy rates and PPVs so much then you guys can harp on every little decimal point. I think WWE would still be fine without these major draws anyways. Of course, it's a business so they'll do what they want but I'll keep wanting what I want. I like some of the "draws," though.

Also, I hate that Kelly thread. I don't think I posted in it once. I read a few long posts from you and PHX and that was enough. Seriously, discussing diva wrestling(which I don't watch) in that much detail and business detail at that was just too much to handle.

 

[PHX]

to be a true main eventer he would have to

A) go over real made main eventers clean as a face like HHH, Cena, and so on

STRIKE ONE!

B) face credible challengers not Jericho to up the prestige of his reign

STRIKE TWO!

C) not lose viewers on a weekly and monthly basis which is needed to make guys like Bryan and Del Rio, not a smaller audience watching those guys and thus making wwe say fuck it we sure can't let these bozos main event if they lose viewers every quarter as no one is paying to see their shit finish a show on ppv

STRIKE THREE!

They half assed it with his momentum as he came back way too soon after winning last year, then went on to lose to HHH and never beat Cena clean, and then to top it off stuck his with a B level guy at his best in Jericho and guys lower than that in Bryan and El Rio, thus making Kane the most credible guy he has beaten (and AJ is the only reason for that) clean

The time is now for Cena. Hell it's been a longtime coming for the belts to have a credible world champ who can actually make a rising star like Dolph, Bryan, and so on much like he vaulted Punk up a level from heel joke who got himself and his stables destoryed to what he is now, as people will tune into Cena and stay to watch what he does, thus it is more effective to get a guy more over as he gets a larger audience and real big match experience just being in the ppv ring with him for the strap

Did you not read when I said WWE is not building up heels and that's why he hasn't had credible challengers? This is one of the weakest time periods in WWE history when it comes to having top heels and that isn't Punk's fault which is my issue with you on this whole thing is that you keep blaming him for shit he can't control. Fact of the matter is he won his feud with Cena we can go back n fourth over how it was done but many guys can you say won a feud against John Cena? Then in his feud with HHH they went out of their way to protect CM Punk and give HHH a non clean win which how many times can you say they have done that? Even John Cena has lost straight up clean to HHH.

WWE is lacking stars so more so than they have in the past so don't act like it's a fair comparison comparing him going over big names when HHH had Foley, Rock, Austin, etc to go over, Cena had HBK, HHH, Batista, etc to go over and Punk right now got Cena and...that's about it. HHH wrestles on rare occasions, Taker isn't around I mean your point would make more sense if they were ducking Punk away from big names to feud with but they aren't because they're fucked in that department which is why they got Punk working SD live shows.

To use your rating thing against you mania time John Cena was actually losing viewers during that time multiple times going against no competition, and leading up to one of the biggest matches in our time but that does. Not to mention unexplainable shit was happening like ratings not being much different from when Rock wasn't around to when Rock was around with HBK, HHH and Taker all on T.V as well. Which my point with that is ratings are so pointless to judge guys by in 2012 so idk why you keep on doing it like it's 98 or something.

Fact of the matter is Punk not ending PPV's has nothing to do with him and everything to do with them catering to Cena without the belt and giving him the main angles as a way to make up for their top guy not having the world title. I would agree with your point if it was someone other than Cena or Rock main eventing over the WWE title but that is not the case.

 

[Defiant]

To be fair, Punk's had to contend with a LOT of shit throughout his reign since Survivor Series. The Royal Rumble, Rock/Cena, HHH/HBK/Taker, Brock Lesnar, and now even Cena/Laurainitis/Show (and soon HHH/Lesnar) all have overshadowed CM Punk's reign (and Daniel Bryan's).

CM Punk is consistently impressive and is definately main event material imo. But it seems like he's been given scraps to work with compared to the amount of time and focus WWE have afforded to the above programs. Hardly seems fair to knock Punk's quality or ability to get over when just about every major title program this year have been booked as mid card acts.

 

[PHX]

No, it's because I don't think like a casual fan or care what they want. I just want quality wrestling. If that hurts buy rates and PPVs so much then you guys can harp on every little decimal point. I think WWE would still be fine without these major draws anyways. Of course, it's a business so they'll do what they want but I'll keep wanting what I want. I like some of the "draws," though.

Also, I hate that Kelly thread. I don't think I posted in it once. I read a few long posts from you and PHX and that was enough. Seriously, discussing diva wrestling(which I don't watch) in that much detail and business detail at that was just too much to handle.

I don't get why a wrestling fan would care about most of the stuff PSYCH goes on about to the extent that it would make you actually like or dislike a wrestler because of it. If you don't like a guy fine but don't try and use stats and shit to back your opinion

 

[PHX]

To be fair, Punk's had to contend with a LOT of shit throughout his reign since Survivor Series. The Royal Rumble, Rock/Cena, HHH/HBK/Taker, Brock Lesnar, and now even Cena/Laurainitis/Show (and soon HHH/Lesnar) all have overshadowed CM Punk's reign (and Daniel Bryan's).

CM Punk is consistently impressive and is definately main event material imo. But it seems like he's been given scraps to work with compared to the amount of time and focus WWE have afforded to the above programs. Hardly seems fair to knock Punk's quality or ability to get over when just about every major title program this year have been booked as mid card acts.

Thank you this is all I've been saying he's in a situation no other main eventer has been in before but that stuff gets ignored unfortunately.

 

[SAIYANS]

I think they need to go two ways with Punk and the WWE title

- Give him real contenders who matter, which means opening up that wallet an duetting in some ears at Raw 1000

- Pass it to Cena and let him establish the division and title all over again back to the level it used to be at. Then when young guys actually face off with him and have a good showing where they get close to a win they will be elevated far more than anything Punk has done even by losing, see HHH/Jeff



The Punk problem is three fold

- he's beat no one credible (clean) to say he is a face champion as his biggest wins have all been flukes that relied on Ace or AJ, which is mind boggling for a fucking face

- he can't make or establish non credible guys like Bryan or Dolph or ADR credible because he's beaten no one that matters himself to make people invest in him, let alone a feud with challengers who are less legit and fleshed out than him. That is where the changing of the channel and non main event spot on ppvs come from

- his build itself just doesn't look good enough to be menacing or an ass kicker who takes no shit for fans to ignore the lack of credibility like a Dave as he is small, kinda pudgy, and they never talk up his background as a wrestler or martial artist


----

I honestly think guys like MVP, Carlito, and Kennedy would have been taken more seriously than who he has faced before and after facing Punk, and it is a shame as it shows how much work some of these guys need fleshing out their perosnalities

 

[Kiffy Lube]

I think SAIYANS reasoning behind why that has happened is actually justifiable reason. They don't trust Punk over Cena to headline. I can understand that but I'd still rather see D-Bry and Punk end every PPV for remainder of the year over something like Cena/Show.

 

[PHX]

I think they need to go two ways with Punk and the WWE title- Give him real contenders who matter, which means opening up that wallet an duetting in some ears at Raw 1000- Pass it to Cena and let him establish the division and title all over again back to the level it used to be atThe Punk problem is three fold- he's beat no one credible (clean) to say he is a face champion - he can't make non credible guys like Bryan or Dolph or ADR credible because he's beaten no one that matters himself to make people invest in him, let alone a feud with challengers who are less legit and fleshed out than him- his build itself just doesn't look good enough to be menacing or an ass kicker who takes no shit for fans to ignore the lack of credibility like as he is small, kinda pudgy, and they never talk up his background as a wrestler or martial artist ----I honestly think guys like MVP, Carlito, and Kennedy would have been taken more seriously than who he has faced

So can we at least agree that this is a WWE not building and having more names problem than a it's all Punk's fault problem? Because that's pretty much what you just pointed out.

 

[SAIYANS]

Like I said either get Punk real names or let Cena make some with the belt. Cena can be champ and beat guys but make them more important. You can go 20 minutes for the title with Cena and lose, but look good, and come off better post match than going 40 with Punk and losing or winning, just the way things are. I don't see the payoff for what they are doing any more at all with Punk and the strap. Getting Punk real names sounds good but it ain't plausible money or bodies wise as the real names will all want to get paid big to comeback and lose o him or are too old/banged up to even get in the ring. OT too much of a hamster on a wheel for my taste now as Punk isn't going anywhere and whoever beats him really is in no different spot than they would have been with the us or IC gold

 

[PHX]

They can look good with Cena all they want but it still will do nothing for them if WWE doesn't do anything with them. Countless guys have looked good losing to Cena and did jackshit after which is the real issue here so ultimately what you're saying will be a solution still won't fix the problem of WWE not having any stars. Which is funny because me and Sal would always get into it with you about the how WWE needs work on making new stars so they won't be fucked in the long run but you always had the depend on the old guys attitude and now you're seeing the result of leaning on those old guys and not consistently building up guys to be names for them which is now we gotta slave Punk and Cena to death cause we got no one left.