Daniel Bryan needs to stop trying to get over with IWC.

[Deezy]

If it ain't a myth, fight him on it.

You trying to burn this place down?

And not asking me?

 

[Wang Chung]

This is a myth that has gone on far too long and I’m thinking of making a thread on it.

Using managers for people who can’t talk does not work.

People keep citing Bobby Heenan yet every single major draw he managed didn’t need his managing, they could talk without him, Rude, Perfect, Andre, Flair, etc

Contrast that with Paul Heyman, his talking skills didn’t make Axel, Lesnar or Cesaro draws.

Ryback & Punk could already talk.

In fact the use of Lesnar as an example needs to go, Lesnar was an utter fail in his first run and wasn’t a draw as he lacked mic skill and character

Lesnar became a draw in UFC

So Mr. FUJI didn't work either then.


"If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire The Tap A-Team

 

[Smart Marx]

You trying to burn this place down?

And not asking me?

I naturally assumed you'd join the new thread and put in the good fight.

 

[Smart Marx]

You trying to burn this place down?

And not asking me?

I'll tag you in when the thread is made.

 

[Sabretooth]

I’m just sick of this whole “when this person was on tv, the numbers didn’t skyrocket and therefore they weren’t a draw and weren’t good”

True wrestling fans are allowed to have a say in who’s good and who’s not. There are very few wrestlers that can heavily draw casual fans. Just because ratings don’t pop doesn’t mean a wrestler isn’t talented or good. Doesn’t mean they don’t get cheered at events or sell merchandise or are not entertaining. I’m not gonna look at someone like Cesaro and be like ER MAH GAWD HE DIDNT DRAW 20 MILLION VIEWERS WHEN WE WAS ON TV SO HES SHIT.

 

[CakeWalker]

No, Rock wasn’t the only draw.

But you need to have mic skills to draw in the United States, unless you’re a silent monster like a Kane, but even then he had mic skill and they had him talking via voice box a few months into his run.

The Rock has nothing to do with Daniel Bryan, stop derailing the discussion.

 

[Hidden Blaze]

The Rock has nothing to do with Daniel Bryan, stop derailing the discussion.

Tbh, Sabs brought him up first. Let’s be fair here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RLStern]

I’m just sick of this whole “when this person was on tv, the numbers didn’t skyrocket and therefore they weren’t a draw and weren’t good”

True wrestling fans are allowed to have a say in who’s good and who’s not. There are very few wrestlers that can heavily draw casual fans. Just because ratings don’t pop doesn’t mean a wrestler isn’t talented or good. Doesn’t mean they don’t get cheered at events or sell merchandise or are not entertaining. I’m not gonna look at someone like Cesaro and be like ER MAH GAWD HE DIDNT DRAW 20 MILLION VIEWERS WHEN WE WAS ON TV SO HES SHIT.

The niche aren’t true Wrestling fans, they weren’t the ones leading to 10+ million viewers twice a week for the WWF & WCW from 1998-2002.

Wrestling should be catered to the mainstream, the WWE stabbed them right in the back when they started catering to the niche with the brand split, pushing untalented wrestlers with zero character & mic skill, poor storyline, and focus on in ring that forced them to stop watching in 2002.

Not only are the niche not the true wrestling fans, they hold zero rights to even suggest they are.

Its entitled and the gatekeeping from the casuals has to stop, they are real wrestling who loved the genre for what it was... storylines and characters.

 

[Sabretooth]

Tbh, Sabs brought him up first. Let’s be fair here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He was brought up a whole page before I did so let’s be fair here.

 

[Hidden Blaze]

He was brought up a whole page before I did so let’s be fair here.

My bad, you right


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sabretooth]

The niche aren’t true Wrestling fans, they weren’t the ones leading to 10+ million viewers twice a week for the WWF & WCW from 1998-2002.

Wrestling should be catered to the mainstream, the WWE stabbed them right in the back when they started catering to the niche with the brand split, pushing untalented wrestlers with zero character & mic skill, poor storyline, and focus on in ring that forced them to stop watching in 2002.

Not only are the niche not the true wrestling fans, they hold zero rights to even suggest they are.

Its entitled and the gatekeeping from the casuals has to stop, they are real wrestling who loved the genre for what it was... storylines and characters.

Except the wrestlers that they pushed did have character and mic skill. Just because people “stopped watching” due to a focus on in ring work it’s their loss. And the drop in viewership could be attributed to the fact that the Monday Night War was over.

 

[Evans]

Contrast that with Paul Heyman, his talking skills didn’t make Axel, Lesnar or Cesaro draws.

This is a god awful statement.

Wrestlers aligned with Heyman are definitely considered as bigger deals than without him and managers definitely can and have primarily improved the fans perception of wrestlers as well as improving the wrestler themselves.

Reigns was a star before Heyman sure, but Reigns is legit on his best run right now as a heel. Heyman is part responsible for that.

Heyman as you example here has crowds eating out the palm of his hands, I can get some videos of him popping crowds with “LADIES AND GENTLEMAN, MY NAME IS...” and “THATS NOT A PREDICTION, ITS A SPOILER” lines.

Lesnar wasn’t a failure in his first run, dude was a legit monster and champion. Fans shit on him because they knew the main event of mania were two stars leaving lmao.

Managers absolutely do improve wrestlers, their marketability and fan perception. It’s never 100% succesful, not sure why you’re expecting that. Some guys are made to be stars, some aren’t. That’s life

 

[RLStern]

Except the wrestlers that they pushed did have character and mic skill. Just because people “stopped watching” due to a focus on in ring work it’s their loss. And the drop in viewership could be attributed to the fact that the Monday Night War was over.

“It’s their loss”... their loss right? yeah, fuck those 6+ million viewers, and fuck the 13+ million viewer audience who watched WWF & WCW. Right?...

...What’s the matter with you? Their loss? THEY’RE The ones who should be catered to, THEY loved the storyline and character genre of Professional Wrestling.

They weren’t the ones complaining that Dean Malenko wasn’t champion... the niche did.

They weren’t the ones who hated that the show prioritized storyline and character and demanded a brand split in 2001/2002 for undercard guys who didn’t draw... the niche did.

They weren’t the ones who still complained when they got catered to... the niche did and STILL does, you didn’t hear the Mainstream fans/“casuals” complain when the show was catered to them.

So what the Mainstream U.S. audience at “casuals” crave Crash tv, storyline and characters and don’t care one bit about in ring... can you blame them? That’s what Wrestling always was.

The niche is the ones who watch a show of pure boredom yet can’t stop complaining, they can’t stop watching.

The less than 1.5 million niche is the ones who want to gatekeep from the 10+ million who stopped watching and the millions upon millions of non-wrestling fans who would watch if it was catered them.

They’re not the bad guys here, the niche/IWC are the bad guys in this situation, by being a vocal minority hijacking a show to be catered to a niche to the detriment of 10+ million viewers.


Read that in Tom Hanks cadence:



This is the only post on this forum that I feel enraged at... “their loss”, how could you even type those words, “their loss”,

 

[RLStern]

This is a god awful statement.

Wrestlers aligned with Heyman are definitely considered as bigger deals than without him and managers definitely can and have primarily improved the fans perception of wrestlers as well as improving the wrestler themselves.

Reigns was a star before Heyman sure, but Reigns is legit on his best run right now as a heel. Heyman is part responsible for that.

Heyman as you example here has crowds eating out the palm of his hands, I can get some videos of him popping crowds with “LADIES AND GENTLEMAN, MY NAME IS...” and “THATS NOT A PREDICTION, ITS A SPOILER” lines.

Lesnar wasn’t a failure in his first run, dude was a legit monster and champion. Fans shit on him because they knew the main event of mania were two stars leaving lmao.

Managers absolutely do improve wrestlers, their marketability and fan perception. It’s never 100% succesful, not sure why you’re expecting that. Some guys are made to be stars, some aren’t. That’s life

This entire post is refuted in this thread:

Managers cannot help wrestlers who lack Mic Skill

For years whenever a niche fanatic wants one of their favorites to get pushed, and someone rightfully points out that they shouldn’t due to a lack of mic skills, they suggest that they could give them a manager to hide this. This has never ever worked. People cite Bobby The Brain Heenan as an...

wrestlingsmarks.com

 

[Evans]

This entire post is refuted in this thread:

Managers cannot help wrestlers who lack Mic Skill

For years whenever a niche fanatic wants one of their favorites to get pushed, and someone rightfully points out that they shouldn’t due to a lack of mic skills, they suggest that they could give them a manager to hide this. This has never ever worked. People cite Bobby The Brain Heenan as an...

wrestlingsmarks.com

no, it isn’t. You can’t refute the truth