Champions League 2012-13 Discussion

[Y2J Enigma]

Despite being a Dortmund fan myself, our w2-1 victory over Real Madrid was a bit of a surprise. I didn't ge to watch the game due to school, and I still can't find the highlights anywhere, but the result is music to my ears.

 

[Rysenberg]

I don't think we'll ever agree on the possession front, but to your point about them not having anyone back, urm, Poulsen? He was their CDM and very rarely went forward. He sat when the full backs went forward like all the big clubs do. City didn't have many counter-attacks to be honest so I don't see how that's even a talking point, Ajax were really comfortable for the majority.

I still don't think he sat deep enough though. Well, either way, whenever City attacked them they looked like they could easily score. And the reason that City didn't launch any counter attacks is because they were quite content to sit back and try get to half time @ 0-1 - a plan that ultimately failed of course.

How could he go forward when Ajax were strolling past their whole team with their incredible football? If he went forward, then the whole right hand side where Ajax were really pushing would have been completely vulnerable. It would have been Blue for Clichy to go forward.

I was meaning that he was sitting too deep as in he was playing them onside at times. It never really had any affect just something I picked up on.

Stats are stats, did you see the game? Ajax were dominating son. They weren't passing it around the defence at all, the only time they did that was the right time which was incredibly brave. City were pressing high and instead of launching it forward to a team of giants, they passed round them EVERY TIME like Barca do and Liverpool try to do but fail every week (lol). Ajax had more shots (1 more all be it) and had 6 on target against City. City only had the same because of their spurt in the second half where all teams sit back like Ajax did eventually and City got in because they had like EVERYONE forward lol. Ajax outplayed them, can you argue against that?



They could have, actually, SHOULD have got the win there tonight, but they were outplayed. The march shouldn't even be competitive, this is an Ajax side who field their developmental squad. Their most experienced player in Vertongen (23 years old) and captain was sold to Tottenham, that's what side Ajax are, a selling team. City should have gone there, had 60% possession and came away with a 2-0 or 3-0 win, while dominating them with power. What happened was Ajax out-passed them and out-played them. They had more work ethic. More desire. Hats off to them.

They didn't dominate at all. We're never ever gonna agree on this, but A LOT of their passing in the first 60 mins was just pointless shit that didn't get them anywhere. They were dominating possession, but they had basically no clear cut chances and would have gone into half time 0-1 down if it weren't for a defencive lapse and a fantastic strike.

Yeah, it was a mixture of the system and the defenders, either way it shouldn't have gone in. Ajax did well to get the corner, City did poor to concede it, which plays into my point of Ajax played exceptional and City played poor.


I actually understand taking Lescott off. Clichy CAN play right back and if you have Kolarov as left back with Kompany and Richards as centre backs then you have a very attacking defence if that makes sense. Kolarov especially is great going forward, where as Lescott literally looks like he's shit himself whenever he's given the ball. But to play three at the back with a fast full back as a centre half is just ridiculous.

Totally agree, although he didn't appear to go for this. It ended up with Clichy being confused as to what role he had to play and just getting lost, Richards and company having to try and stop all of Ajax's play with Kolarov basically playing left mid. It was Blue as hell lol. But yeah, I think just about everyone who watched that game realised that tactical change was fucking awful; besides Mancini of course.

And yeah, Mancini basically made it "just attack the fuck out of them" when they were 3-1 down. It shouldn't have got to that point, but Ajax were just so good with the ball. Let's not forget that City play possession football, that IS their style, that's what won them the league. Ajax were just better at it.

Fingers are aching, fuck you :tough:.

We've already argued the hell out of this point, but as skillful as they were they didn't seem much of a threat - still - we'll agree to disagree on this one.

And ditto, I swear we've written more than I do in my average English essays lol.

 

[Crayo]

Okay since we can't agree on that, answer me this. You say that City were content with their 1-0 win and sat back, but what was their excuse for the first 21 minutes which was exactly the same as after they scored... Ajax just dominated them that's all. City's plan wasn't score and sit, it was "wtf we're getting owned, oh we've scored, now we're being owned again". The goal came through ONE attack in the first half where Richards played an awesome pass which cut through their whole team. Bad for Ajax? Maybe, but Barca do the same. They high press and if you can pass THROUGH the high pressing then you're in, hence why Madrid keep scoring against them.

I still don't see how you can defend City's performance at all. City and Mancini flopped hard in Europe, completely. This isn't their only poor game, they should have lost against Borussia and deserved to lose against Madrid. Lacky -- a City fan -- has said the same thing, lol.

 

[Testify]

Dinamo Zagreb flops like a shit again, loses 2-0 for the third consecutive time this year. Fail of a club.

 

[Rysenberg]

Okay since we can't agree on that, answer me this. You say that City were content with their 1-0 win and sat back, but what was their excuse for the first 21 minutes which was exactly the same as after they scored... Ajax just dominated them that's all. City's plan wasn't score and sit, it was "wtf we're getting owned, oh we've scored, now we're being owned again". The goal came through ONE attack in the first half where Richards played an awesome pass which cut through their whole team. Bad for Ajax? Maybe, but Barca do the same. They high press and if you can pass THROUGH the high pressing then you're in, hence why Madrid keep scoring against them.

I still don't see how you can defend City's performance at all. City and Mancini flopped hard in Europe, completely. This isn't their only poor game, they should have lost against Borussia and deserved to lose against Madrid. Lacky -- a City fan -- has said the same thing, lol.

Again, the first 21 minutes they were hardly being pressured and they just allowed them to play their game. I think their original plan was to just get them on the counter (it seemed like it anyway) and they did that very successfully. Yeah, pressing that high is okay if you're Barca as you will make up for it with three of the best players ever going forward for you, but Ajax press high and don't really do much.

The only time I can fault the City players is for the first goal. The other two goals were a result of their manager fucking up big time with formations/zonal marking. I never seen Dortmund but I agree with your assessment of Madrid, but again, IIRC that was the game they played 3 at the back and ended up losing? Again, hard to blame the players in that case(I've forgotten a lot of this game, I may be talking pish).

 

[Crayo]

Again, the first 21 minutes they were hardly being pressured and they just allowed them to play their game. I think their original plan was to just get them on the counter (it seemed like it anyway) and they did that very successfully. Yeah, pressing that high is okay if you're Barca as you will make up for it with three of the best players ever going forward for you, but Ajax press high and don't really do much.

The only time I can fault the City players is for the first goal. The other two goals were a result of their manager fucking up big time with formations/zonal marking. I never seen Dortmund but I agree with your assessment of Madrid, but again, IIRC that was the game they played 3 at the back and ended up losing? Again, hard to blame the players in that case(I've forgotten a lot of this game, I may be talking pish).

Successfully? They had one counter attack, fair enough they scored but if you're Manchester City or their fans, is that what you expect against a team like Ajax? I think you're mistaking Ajax for some genuine challengers, they're not, they're really poor. I understand containing them for the first like 10 minutes as they're at home but to sit there the whole first half and not touch the ball is credit to Ajax and their style. Yeah their pressing isn't quite as good but if you're comparing both clubs, who played better and deserved it? Mancini said himself that City deserved to lose that game, Richards also said they were beaten by the better team.

Yaya Toure is one of the best passers of the game, he can settle a team down, if he performed well it might have been different. Dortmund dominated City more than Madrid did. And no City started with 4 at the back against Madrid and went to 3 when they needed goals, again a stupid move from Mancini lol. I just think his tactics and his players have flopped throughout this whole campaign and I reckon City fans will agree. If they stuck to the system and style of their premier league campaign then it might be different, last year they failed to qualify but they had 10 points. This year they have 1.

Did you hear the interview from Richards? It's a system they don't even practise much apparently (the 3 at the back). Wonder if he gets in trouble for saying that.

 

[Lacky]

Why is this debate still going on? Are you both just doing this to fap at each others posts?...

 

[Crayo]

Be cool to have your input actually Lacky, considering you're a City fan. And it's fun to discuss football brother :hogan:.

 

[Lacky]

Be cool to have your input actually Lacky, considering you're a City fan. And it's fun to discuss football brother :hogan:.

Maybe I shall, I'm currently cutting some Smilies, what are we debating exactly? :smug:

 

[Rysenberg]

Successfully? They had one counter attack, fair enough they scored but if you're Manchester City or their fans, is that what you expect against a team like Ajax? I think you're mistaking Ajax for some genuine challengers, they're not, they're really poor. I understand containing them for the first like 10 minutes as they're at home but to sit there the whole first half and not touch the ball is credit to Ajax and their style. Yeah their pressing isn't quite as good but if you're comparing both clubs, who played better and deserved it? Mancini said himself that City deserved to lose that game, Richards also said they were beaten by the better team.

Yaya Toure is one of the best passers of the game, he can settle a team down, if he performed well it might have been different. Dortmund dominated City more than Madrid did. And no City started with 4 at the back against Madrid and went to 3 when they needed goals, again a stupid move from Mancini lol. I just think his tactics and his players have flopped throughout this whole campaign and I reckon City fans will agree. If they stuck to the system and style of their premier league campaign then it might be different, last year they failed to qualify but they had 10 points. This year they have 1.

Did you hear the interview from Richards? It's a system they don't even practise much apparently (the 3 at the back). Wonder if he gets in trouble for saying that.

Exactly. One counter attack and goal should have been all that was necessary until half time where they could have re-evaluated their position, however, losing the goal fucked up their entire game plan completely.

I'm not saying and never did say that Man City were the better side in this game, I'm saying that they almost did what they needed to do in the first half, and that Ajax weren't really that good. I wouldn't say either side was better than the other at that point as they both went in level and had a similar amount of chances.

I think his tactics were perfect in the first half, it was the second where he fucked them up and yeah, he did cost them dearly. I agree that Yaya under performed in this game as he didn't really get involved very much, but again when he switched to that weird ass formation it was probably hard for certain guys to see a lot of the ball.

Again that Richards interview just epitomizes what I'm saying. Mancini let the players down in that second half with poor decisions and him saying they barely practice that formation doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

 

[Crayo]

Whether City were poor or not pretty much lol.

 

[Crayo]

Exactly. One counter attack and goal should have been all that was necessary until half time where they could have re-evaluated their position, however, losing the goal fucked up their entire game plan completely.

I'm not saying and never did say that Man City were the better side in this game, I'm saying that they almost did what they needed to do in the first half, and that Ajax weren't really that good. I wouldn't say either side was better than the other at that point as they both went in level and had a similar amount of chances.

I think his tactics were perfect in the first half, it was the second where he fucked them up and yeah, he did cost them dearly. I agree that Yaya under performed in this game as he didn't really get involved very much, but again when he switched to that weird ass formation it was probably hard for certain guys to see a lot of the ball.

Again that Richards interview just epitomizes what I'm saying. Mancini let the players down in that second half with poor decisions and him saying they barely practice that formation doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

I agree that if they went into half time 1-0 up then perhaps it would have been easier for Mancini but that goal was always coming. Yes they shouldn't have conceded the other two but what got Ajax in that position? Domination of the ball and it wasn't just in their half, it was all in City's half. Graham said the same thing, City weren't pressing them, it was so easy for Ajax. The chances weren't similar in the first half, City had one shot on goal and scored and Ajax had several chances to make goal scoring opportunities but only scored one. That's not pleasant reading for City fans, that's an England thing to do (defend and score on the break). City are so much better than that.

If his tactics were to defend and break against Ajax then how can you call that perfect? The players were defending perfectly for 45 minutes yeah, that's why it was hard for Ajax but they did that because they had to, it would be Blue to go out there with a defending mentality against AJAX lol. Ajax played better football, that's it. The second half wasn't much different than the first, the changes Mancini made were forced because they needed to actually attack. The difference was when they attacked there was more space for Ajax and then that's when they were getting countered every single attack and looked like they were going to concede a LOT. Is Mancini wrong for changing his tactics to actually compete against Ajax? No. Is he wrong for changing his system and having a 3 at the back system? Yes. Either scenario, they were losing. City weren't threatening Ajax either way imo, apart from the end when there were like 6 forwards and Dzeko had a couple chances.

 

[Crayo]

This quote sum it up perfectly:

""On the touchline the despair on Mancini's face inevitably deepened. Young, fragile Ajax... made City look a parody of the champions of the richest football league in the world."

From some Independent pundit.

 

[Lacky]

Last night we were bloody terrible as we have been all season thus far. Mancini has insisted since the start of the season that we need to use more than one tactic. His tactic to chose 3-5-2. Which I believe is one of the WORST tactics in the entire world.

But firstly I'll talk about his selection. On paper the team seemed pretty strong. (Which it is) Below I'll comment on each of his picks.

Joe Hart is obviously the first choice keeper so It was no shock that he started, He chose a back four of Richards, Clichy, Kompany, and Lescott which when you think about it is actually a pretty good defense. But Lescott has been off form all season. Has put some very sluggish performances in, and never has nor will live up to his transfer fee expectations. Starting Kompany (C) Was a bold move by Mancini knowing that if Kompany got a single yellow card he would miss a crucial game against basically better opponents in the next game. Richards is a fantastic performer, always give 100 percent. He's one of my all time favourite City players. Mancini has clearly got a problem at Left Back not a bad one, a good problem. Who do you start? You've got Clichy who's fantastic going forward, but lacks real defensive prowess, and then you've got Kolarov who's fantastic going forward, a better defender, and a set piece specialist so..? Why's he always on the bench?

Midfield, Do I really need to go into why Milner & Barry we're playing? Both FUCKING SHIT FUCKTARDS who're very lucky to be playing professional football yet alone pick up £120,000 a week plus. Both horrible selections by Mancini and I hope both players leave in the summer. Yaya Toure, One of our best midfielders when he's on fire. I don't even need to describe how awesome he is because you guys already know. Nasri is a fantastic player who gives 100 percent for us every time he plays, I don't need to talk about him.

Aguero & Dzeko upfront. We were playing a team of midgets so I'm surprised Dzeko didn't have the game of his life. Sits on the bench all the time, then when he finally gets on the pitch he scores. Start's a game does shit. 3 times he started 0 goals. When he comes off the bench you're guaranteed goals from him. Poor performance from Dzeko. Can't really fault Aguero because he prefers to work with Tevez upfront. Probably due to communication or something or other.

Me personally If I was Mancini I would have lined up with a team like this.

If we don't qualify, and fail to win the prem. Mancini must go.

 

[Rysenberg]

That guy sounds like a self-righteous prick, but anyway..

I don't think Ajax made them look like idiots at all until after the second goal. Yeah, City are a much better side than Ajax but starting an away game off in a slightly defensive fashion probably made sense, then once they got the goal they had no reason to randomly start pressing them. IMO if I were Mancini I would be very pleased to go in a goal up at half time against a very decent side in Ajax at their home turf.

There was absolutely no reason why Man City should have pressured them. It would have been a waste of energy. Ajax were sitting back doing nothing of great use with the ball and City were a goal up, in no hurry and at the time in a fairly commanding position.