Cena's Return?

[PHX]

No I want them to have a future worth a damn and the current crop forcing channel changes screws with that.

Cena is the necessary evil. I respect, not overly like but respect him. He is the best in the world at his profession no denying that, and he's been the best in the world onnthe biggest stage for closer to a decade. At some point he earned that and deserved to be looked at and treated as such.

. Lets just lay it on the table. Randy is a 10x champ, has two strikes that's been overlooked, been part of evolution, led Legacy, and he still to this day can't draw as every reign he has ever had has dropped ratings. Punk has led Nexus, led SES, been given two mitb cases, been given Heyman, been world champ, been wwe champ for over 400 days, and he still can't keep an audience. Next up there's ADR, brought in to draw like Rey, but he plays a poor versions of Mexican JBL and can't get a reaction or loyal viewers to sd like the master of the 619 after multiple world titles. There's Dolphwho looks like a discount Billy Gunn, shakes his ass, and has been given two world titles yet can't amount to anything. None of them are 2nds, none of them are Bs, they are all Cs and second tier to part timers and Cena; the reasons part timers have to return to cover their ass and put money in their pockets and paying viewers on them ppvs. Bryan is been given a reset but Shows a more important player to casuals than him, and the same fans chanting Yes are the same ones who helped drop the buyrate on the biggest ppv match of his life, the same ones who didnt support him and why he lost in 18 secs at mania, and the same ones who didnt even care when he was mr mitb until he was screwed; fair weathers who are too cool to truly back him outside a silly chant.

I don't want to hear guys haven't been given a damn shot. They've all been given damn shots. Edge was given a ball with the Rated R and later Ultimate Opportunist gimmicks. He didnt look back and became the man who carried SD post Dave to the point he didnt need guys without titles to main event his show for him. Batista was given the ball and he became as close to Cenas fucking equal as there ever was, he main evented ppvs, mania, sold out arenas, and elevated himself across the Bord while carrying the titles and whatever brand he was on. Rey became a multiple time world champ, a draw, a main event player the likes of which WCW never would dream of. They are the difference between a group of guys having the It factor and a group guys who aren't true superstars, trying to mascara die as upper echelon. No excuses, they got given a shot, took it, and made the most of it period, point blank.

Cena for every thing annoying about him, and that's mostly his promo or goofy shit he pulls when they give him these jokes to deal with, helps more than he ever hurts. He carries the company, he puts the asses in seats, viewers on TV, and makes every match electric and credible. A prolonged run carrying the prestige of both brands which both need him and both titles who guys like Punk, Bryan, Dolph, and Del Rio have devalued has far more benefit than trying to make other guys matter or act like they are something they aren't, which is a true star. Cena carrying the title undisputed champ for a year or two while beating all challengers who come after him hard is huge. The guy who beats him at his best and clean is made, not like Bryan beating a hurt Cena or Punk never beating the guy clean in their whole feud,mouth truly 1, 2, 3 in the middle of the ring for the strap after he's spent so much time as the guy and establishing he's the standard and those belts are better than the us and IC straps (which they aren't right now).

Cena to me is the reset button, if you go all in and use him like its 05 as opposed to the watered down bandage way he's been used to cover for these guys who have been handed a title in the hope it can make them the last couple years.

Simple and plain, Cenas return is appreciated and needed. You don't know what you have until its gone, and its clear the rest of the full time roster ain't much without him as the backbone, bunch of AJ Styles types with bloated resumes to hide they ain't shit

Typed all that and still didn't say what the pay off would be long term and how him being pushed like he did in 05-07 would make anybody. It's not 05-07 they pushed him like that to establish him as the man. If you got a good idea of how pushing him like that in 2013 coming off being so banged up while saying I know we were in the middle of our biggest long term storyline of the year with the Corporation/Bryan that is benefiting a lot of guys involved but we are stopping that all for Cena to relieve 6-8 years ago to where it ends up making some names and set them up long term I'll be happy to listen open minded. Cause so far all I've got from you is everybody sucks except Cena and bring back the old days.

 

[SAIYANS]

Who is it making, Big Show? He's the most over, well most watched got out this whole angle. He's overshadowing Bryan, and you would need to be blind to not think Triple H vs Big Show is the ppv selling point over Bryan vs Orton to get people watching and buying . The Shield aren't doing that much different, as they haven't given them mic time nor let Trips/Steph put them over on the mic. Cody is a maybe. Orton and Bryan are just essentially there and became back drops.

At least during all Cena and Dave's dominant glory from 05-08, guys rose to the top like i mentioned such as Edge. I'm sorry but no one as of right now is as good or as mainstay as Edge and they've all had their resumes padded to hell and back. I mean Bryan's a 2x WWE champ, world champ, tag champ, mr mitb, and what does it mean? Same for Punk, Orton, Del Rio, and Dolph? Their resumes are more meaningless and padded than the east generation of guys to make them look better than they are, yet people flip the channel on them. When do the damn excuses go out the window and you just say they fucking failed with those resumes compared to their past contemporaries who actually made it and got over and taken seriously without all the papered bullshit?

Whoever beats Cena at his hottest has a better shot of being a player than the current formula. We are looking at the same thing probably happening to Sandow as well, just feeding him the world title once or twice in the hope it makes him and gets him to be taken seriously. None of the new crop has got it because they've earned it, that they were so hot, that people tuned in for them, bought countless merch for them like when Cena and Dave were heading into wm21. They've been given the world titles and all their accomplishment in the hopes of creating a star like its a glorified wwe universe mode move off a video game to build them support, but unlike the game, the casuals tune out on them, which says something needs to change.

Personally I think the change is going back to how things were when Edge, Cena, Dave, Rey, and the like made it. Long ass reigns like Trips and JBL had, overwhelming dominance like Dave and Cena had, and good wins and remarkable moments like Rey and Edge had, not some contrived Yes movement or 400 day reign as champ where you can't main event your own fucking show.

Ive said it before and ill say it again, the top of the main roster right now has no one good enough to be a true 2nd star let alone 1B. They need to take time and develop guys like Reigns and Wyatt over a long haul, same with a guy like Big E (he has a better package than guys like Dolph) or Cody as a face over a long haul to catch Cena a year or two from now.

 

[SAIYANS]

And yes to be blunt, everyone does suck but Cena in the real world, lets keep that real and put it out there. Cena pays their damn bills, has paid their damn bills for close to 10 years, and he's the guy who has to save the ship when they flop. Cena didnt need his resume padded like all these guys to make it, he didnt need umpteen tries and you know it. And there's no argument you or anyone can make that says in comparison to him they are successes

Cena is a true transcendent star and a different breed from the rest, can't be denied, can't be argued or debated in reality because at the end of the day its a business and its entertainment, and when people are flipping channels on you they aren't entertained, same way only selling 12k seats in a 18k arena at ppv ain't good for business.

Lets just be clear about that, they suck in terms of their intended goals and comparison to past talents as the support to Cena.

 

[punk13]

Ugh I can't stand him. Gets a title shot immediately(i know he's entitled to it), so annoying

 

[SAIYANS]

I really got to say this; look at these resumes

CM Punk
- ECW CHAMP
- 3x WORLD CHAMP
- 2x WWE CHAMP
- 2x Mr. MITB
- IC CHAMP
- WORLD TAG CHAMP
- 400+ day reign
- managed by Heyman
- leader of Nexus
- leader of SES

Dolph Ziggler
- 2x WORLD CHAMP
- WORLD TAG CHAMP
- IC CHAMP
- US CHAMP
- Mr. MITB

Del Rio
- 2x WORLD CHAMP
- 2x WWE CHAMP
- Mr. MITB
- Royal Rumble winner

Daniel Bryan
- 2x WWE CHAMP
- WORLD CHAMP
- Mr. MITB
- US CHAMP
- TAG CHAMP

Randy Orton
- 7x WWE CHAMP
- 3x WORLD CHAMP
- IC CHAMP
- TAG CHAMP
- Royal Rumble winner
- Mr. MITB
- leader of Legacy
- half of Rated RKO
- member of Evolution

If these guys aren't fucking made by now, if they aren't true second stars and successful draws by now, it's because it's on them. They've been given all the accomplishments needed. Stop making damn excuses in general and hold them accountable. Plenty were made with less including Cena

 

[PHX]

I really got to say this; look at these resumes

CM Punk
- ECW CHAMP
- 3x WORLD CHAMP
- 2x WWE CHAMP
- 2x Mr. MITB
- IC CHAMP
- WORLD TAG CHAMP
- 400+ day reign
- managed by Heyman
- leader of Nexus
- leader of SES

Dolph Ziggler
- 2x WORLD CHAMP
- WORLD TAG CHAMP
- IC CHAMP
- US CHAMP
- Mr. MITB

Del Rio
- 2x WORLD CHAMP
- 2x WWE CHAMP
- Mr. MITB
- Royal Rumble winner

Daniel Bryan
- 2x WWE CHAMP
- WORLD CHAMP
- Mr. MITB
- US CHAMP
- TAG CHAMP

Randy Orton
- 7x WWE CHAMP
- 3x WORLD CHAMP
- IC CHAMP
- TAG CHAMP
- Royal Rumble winner
- Mr. MITB
- leader of Legacy
- half of Rated RKO
- member of Evolution

If these guys aren't fucking made by now, if they aren't true second stars and successful draws by now, it's because it's on them. They've been given all the accomplishments needed. Stop making damn excuses in general and hold them accountable. Plenty were made with less including Cena

What are you talking about? Never said Punk wasn't made and never said Orton wasn't either. Punk and Orton are now guys not the future so why the hell would I be talking about them? You're making this damn thread too much about you wanting to bash them than about Cena going for the WHC and it's getting annoying. The guys I was talking about being made from the corporation storyline is Bryan who is getting his first real main event push that they have a long term plan for that has been in motion. Cody who is in the middle of his biggest push right now, Shield who have been the main cog of the storyline coming off as important as ever. Even the Usos have been getting a break out of this whole thing. When it all said and done once this storyline is near the end and over with guys are going to come out of it looking better than they did going in it which is the point. And Cena is the biggest star of this era and all but stop acting like the man is putting up attitude era numbers anytime he is on the screen. He's a great face of the company who is reliable but it isn't like he's been bringing in a new audience or to new heights. Hogan did that not once but twice, Austin and Rock did it Cena's thing has mostly been able to be the perfect poster boy over a long period of time. His drawing power is being far overstated because he's been on top for so long.

And again you still keep drifting away from how Cena getting pushed like he never got pushed before is going to do more than what the corporation storyline could do to push guys and set the company up long term. Hopefully you can speak more on that rather than trying to make this the why Punk, Bryan, Orton, ADR, etc suck vent thread but I doubt it.

 

[Dale]

Can't believe I just read all the PSYCH garbage, it's the same post over and over again except it just gets longer and even more tedious.

What I got out of his posts was that everyone sucks apart from Cena and he should all the belts, all the time and everything will be fine, you know until next time he gets injured and we're back in the exact same position again.

 

[Deezy]

Can't believe I just read all the PSYCH garbage, it's the same post over and over again except it just gets longer and even more tedious.

What I got out of his posts was that everyone sucks apart from Cena and he should all the belts, all the time and everything will be fine, you know until next time he gets injured and we're back in the exact same position again.

And yet, certain people just respond with the same bullshit response, "if so and so got the Cena push".....And alot have, and they have to keep going back to Cena, because they don't stick. Face it, all those guys, people in the IWC and so-called "experts" say needs to be given the ball, either fumble the ball or don't even catch it.

How many times do they have to be proven wrong about this? Cena's been on top keeping the company afloat, and the guys who are asked to help carry the load, just can't measure up.

 

[Keith]

And yet, certain people just respond with the same bullshit response, "if so and so got the Cena push".....And alot have, and they have to keep going back to Cena, because they don't stick. Face it, all those guys, people in the IWC and so-called "experts" say needs to be given the ball, either fumble the ball or don't even catch it.

How many times do they have to be proven wrong about this? Cena's been on top keeping the company afloat, and the guys who are asked to help carry the load, just can't measure up.

Thats a bit extreme its not like WWE would be out of business if not for John Cena. Vince became a billionaire a long time before Cena was on the scene.

Anyway to stay on topic and talk about Cena's return I think if booked well it could help the World Title and maybe advanced Del Rio I just don't want it to be just a stepping stone for him to return to the WWE Title. The matches don't fill me with joy, but if the feud is well thought out then it maybe of use.

 

[Deezy]

Thats a bit extreme its not like WWE would be out of business if not for John Cena. Vince became a billionaire a long time before Cena was on the scene.

Anyway to stay on topic and talk about Cena's return I think if booked well it could help the World Title and maybe advanced Del Rio I just don't want it to be just a stepping stone for him to return to the WWE Title. The matches don't fill me with joy, but if the feud is well thought out then it maybe of use.

Ofcourse WWE wouldn't be out of business if Cena wasn't around....derrr, but you have to admit WWE would be worth less if Cena wasn't around. Especially after 07 when WWE lost a million viewers who haven't come back. it was Cena and those kids who come to see him who kept the company from bleeding too much after Benoits ghost put a crossface on the whole industry.

Vince isn't a billionaire anymore, can't just reopen his IPO stock to the public to make him one like the first time he did it.

 

[SAIYANS]

The thing with pushin Cena how he's never been pushed before, a long lengthy reign as the undisputed champ is the payoff. The payoff for the guy who beats him finally a year or two from now is huge.

no matter how it is sliced, I'm going to say it has to be better than possibly setting Bryan/Dolph/Punk/ADR/Orton to be his second how they are currently doing it. Don't give me just being better than you were going in to the process makes you not a failure. Punk is a failure, he isn't a true second and the 400 day reign, 5 world titles were meant to make him the Dave replacement; he hasn't filled those shoes. Bryan as of right now, if he wins at hiac becomes a 4x world champ and he by the admission of everyone here isn't made yet; Rey the other small guy only needed a badly booked taste to make it with a smaller stature, so if Bryan isn't there right now keeping people tuned in he's a failure. Orton is looking at number 11 if he wins at hiac and he still can't be trusted to play the role of edge, can't get the audience to stop changing channels after 10 runs; he's a failure. Dolph is a 2x world champ, us champ, and has been managed by heat magnets yet he's still looking to be made and prove himself with his third reign? And ADR is a 4x world champ, Trips didn't need that many, in fact it took him years to pile up that count, as he mattered after one, making ADR a failure.

I have never said Cena is the equal to Hogan or Austin/Rock but let's be clear about things here. Cenas on a whole different level, he has earned it. They've tried to make guys, hand guys reigns, stables, manager, air time, and the like to be noticed and be taken serious. By definition those guys are failures when they couldn't do what Cena and Dave did with one reign. The company right now is dependent on part timers because The guys I listed who should all be made now can't get it done to money paying casuals. The wwe as an industry quote simply has Cena as it's mayweather and the other guys who all should be legit are a bunch of no name canelos who the hype machine has tried to build and given chances too.

What makes any of you consider Punk, Orton, Del Rio, Bryan, or Dolph successes? Why are you ignoring that their resumes, their past managers, stables, mic time, etc should have them able to fill the shows of Shawn, Taker, Hunter, Batista, and Rey by now so the likes of RVD and Jericho can't simply come back and draw when they were upper kid cards at best and dictate their schedules and profile feuds? Why don't you get it's something wrong with the guys who are supposed to be the next 2-6 at the top alongside Cena when it's not just part timers like Rock and Brock being brought back but guys like Goldust, RVD, and Jericho who didn't draw in their day compared to the top guys of their time because this class isn't doing it?

Why should they still be piling world title counts up on these guys over just letting the one true guy who matters and does his job in the only possible way to define success in the real world, business, asses in seats, merch being moved, and viewers watching in Cena carry the belt for a lengthy year plus and build guys with size, presence, and looks that's can translate to it factors in Reigns, Wyatt, Sandow, E, and Cody meet him a year or two from now like Dave and John came up? Then and only then beat him clean so their first world title reign actually makes them as opposed to the way Bryan/Dolph/Orton/Punk/ADR aren't made after multiple ones. Tell me I'm begging you to please tell me why should Bryan be a 4x champ and still "being made" and not be called a failure and same with the others? Why shouldn't they be stars after one reign, hell for goodness sales it only took Hardy one reign and push the right way to still be seen as more serious a contender and draw than the likes of Punk, Orton, Bryan, Dolph, and ADR get he's a fucking screw up

Cenas return needs to be rejoiced and used wisely. I don't think a 2 month reign where ADR cheats to just get it back for a 5th time is wise. I don't using the pad resume count way is wise to give him a support 2-6 who can all draw and keep viewers because lets be real, Cena busts his ass and loves the company, but he and the company knows he can't miss a whole year like Austin did or trips did because the guys who should all be superstars and icons looking at their resumes in the next 5 slots behind him haven't done their job and lived up to any of their billings. I just think we need to make a new 2-6 by having them all get the right build and make it so that when they win the big one the first time, it's all they need to be taken serious and keep people watching. And yes we need better and more unique looking guys in that 2-6 as well over guys who look like average joes in Sweats cutting promos to rocks.

 

[PHX]

All it took was for me to glance at the post to know it was exactly as the other 20 post you made so I'm not even going to bother replying this time since it just keeps it going.

As far as being put in the WHC picture it should be one of the more interesting things he has been put in depending how they handle it since this will mean he will be on Smackdown more than the rare occasion like he has been. Though him on Smackdown more would be better if they had a real brand split. Also cannot see Sandow cashing in any time soon if and when Cena wins the title.

 

[SAIYANS]

Simplify it in 3 questions

Do Bryan, Punk, Orton, Dolph, and ADR have the resume of what should be the 2-6 stars after Cena?

Haven't their resumes all been padded to high hell and back, only to not draw and maintain interest like the previous guys behind Cena in Taker, Triple H, HBK, Edge, Dave, and Rey?

If you answered Yes to both of the above, how can you not say going with Cena as champ and then building Reigns, Wyatt, Cody, and Big E for example to beat Cena for said gold 1-2 years from now isn't a better alternative as their first time being champ will make them like only 1. Reign was needed for Dave and Cena in 05?

PI think the whole process of resume bloating is a failure and that the guys who I listed have all had their resumes promoted to make them seem like the best in the world but no one truly buys it like the past generations when they all finally won the big one. These guys are looking at being 3, 4, 5, 6, andn11 time champs soon and still not making an impact on the business is my point

 

[Chris]

Simplify it in 3 questions

Do Bryan, Punk, Orton, Dolph, and ADR have the resume of what should be the 2-6 stars after Cena?

Haven't their resumes all been padded to high hell and back, only to not draw and maintain interest like the previous guys behind Cena in Taker, Triple H, HBK, Edge, Dave, and Rey?

If you answered Yes to both of the above, how can you not say going with Cena as champ and then building Reigns, Wyatt, Cody, and Big E for example to beat Cena for said gold 1-2 years from now isn't a better alternative as their first time being champ will make them like only 1. Reign was needed for Dave and Cena in 05?

PI think the whole process of resume bloating is a failure and that the guys who I listed have all had their resumes promoted to make them seem like the best in the world but no one truly buys it like the past generations when they all finally won the big one. These guys are looking at being 3, 4, 5, 6, andn11 time champs soon and still not making an impact on the business is my point

First time you've mentioned the future. No one is even arguing about Punk/Bryan/ADR, they're just saying that giving Cena all the pushes won't fix anything. Stop bringing up other people when this is about Cena, yes he's a bigger draw, no one's debating that. PHX hasn't even mentioned Punk in this thread () so why the fuck do you keep bringing him up?

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

For the record, in the 80's Hulkamania hayday, the 2nd-6th tier "superstars" rarely held a Heavyweight Championship, Savage got there once, and was easily the #2 guy, DiBiase, Roberts, Piper & Rude never held the title, yet were the next stars beside Hogan.

Anyways, a win over Cena is probably what ADR needs right now, take him down with all the ring rust, and the barely healed arm, and Cena will have something to overcome. Simple Adam West Batman scenario, hero gets beat by the villain, and put in a spot where it looks like he cant win, then in the second episode overcomes all odds and the hero is victorious in the end. Quick 2 month story, making ADR look good in one, and gives Cena and all his children a happy ending.