Batista frustrated, will he retire?

[LAURINAITIS33]

What I was trying to say that when Cena came to RAW that left Orton then with no main role at that time. He had then no chance to be the top face anymore or the top heel when HHH and Edge was both there too. The point was after the Evolution Split Batista ran with his and Orton stumbled with his turn then got left out for awhile because of the other developments later.


All I was saying with Lesnar is that they all came around the same time and if WWE wanted to they could have just put Lesnar in Evolution later then having him exploding like he did on Smackdown.

 

[MikeRaw]

Cenamark, I still don't get your point that they were only planning to make Orton huge. That doesn;t make sense. Why wouldn't they take advantage of what they had, and plan on making 2 huge stars, which they ended up doing anyways?
IMO, they wanted both to be huge, and that's what they got. The only thing i agree with is they fucked up orton's face turn, but I don't think they wanted him to be a long term face either, so it all ended up the way they wanted it.
But Batista's push certainly had nothing to do with Lesnar leaving (which is what this started about).

 

[gashface]

Well none of you actually know the planning behind it, therefore there is no answer, so stop arguing.

 

[Airfixx]

The point was after the Evolution Split Batista ran with his and Orton stumbled with his turn then got left out for awhile because of the other developments later.

As Cenamark has already said, they changed Orton's character and had him lose his first PPV as champ... Orton's "stumble" as you put it came a while after. IMO WWE knew they fucked up on Orton which is why Batista was given not one, not two but THREE consequtive PPV wins over HHH (Unheard of before or since, against HHH or anyone else).... To make absolutely sure (Also, as I've already said, because at this stage they had lost both Lesnar & Goldberg and were lacking such a figure).



@ Mike Raw: The Lesnar/Goldberg stuff being is blatantly born of Vince's 'need' for uber-pumped muscly guys. Surely that's not so hard to recognise?

 

[Moonlight Drive]

It's very obvious Orton was intended to be the bigger star. In my opinion, Batista was just there to complete the stable. Orton was the IC Champion for more than half a year, he had the Legend Killer gimmick, went over HBK, Benoit, RVD, Mick Foley and multiple others, Batista was tag team champion.

Also, on the subject of Batista, WHY THE FUCK IS HE IN THE MAIN EVENT! Plus he is farr from entertaining

Promos: God damn, my grandma could cut a better promo. Let's talk about his supposed 'promos'. Remember his classic, 'My game plan: destroy everyone' promo? Or his favourite catchphrase (god he is The Rock isn't he >_>) 'I WANT MY TITLE BACK! RAWRR!' or 'IM NOT AFRAID OF YOU! RAWRR~!'

Matches: Sloppy, boring, repetetive, predictable. Yes, Big Dave has put on some good matches, but those were with some of the best workers in wrestling today (Cena, Trips, Taker).

Gimmick: See, that's the thing. HE HAS NO GIMMICK! What is he meant to be, the powerhouse? How in the blue hell is this guy in the Main Event on Raw?!

 

[MikeRaw]

^Your changing the argument though. If this argument is about what WWE WANTED, or had planned, you can't make an argument using your opinion about the guy, cause we aren't talking about whether YOU like him or not.
BTW, batista's gimmick IS a power house, yes,the same as Goldberg, Lesnar and others before him.

IDK why they wouldn't want BOTH to be huge stars, and to me, it seems clear that's what they planned fromt he start (see other posts)

 

[CenaMark54]

Cenamark, I still don't get your point that they were only planning to make Orton huge. That doesn;t make sense. Why wouldn't they take advantage of what they had, and plan on making 2 huge stars, which they ended up doing anyways?
IMO, they wanted both to be huge, and that's what they got. The only thing i agree with is they fucked up orton's face turn, but I don't think they wanted him to be a long term face either, so it all ended up the way they wanted it.
But Batista's push certainly had nothing to do with Lesnar leaving (which is what this started about).

Well I guess we have different definitions of huge star. At the time of Evolution, the WWE was hoping and wishing Orton would become the next guy to carry the company. The next Hogan or Austin if you will. They didn't just want him to be the next HBK or HHH, the WWE's sights were set higher. The expectations for Orton were set extremely high, especially after his very successful run as IC champ.

Batista, on the other hand, was just another guy in the stable. Sure, they hoped he would become a maineventer someday, but they never expected him to become the face of the company for the future. For one, Batista doesn;t have the natural ability Orton has and he was also relatively old for a guy just starting out.

The WWE knew from day one, that Orton would be the man to leave Evolution first and set out on his own and surpass Evolution. The whole point of Evolution was to showcase Orton.

If Orton's face push went as planned, you can be damn sure he would have been the one to beat HHH at Mania. He then would have gone on to destroy Batista and Batista would be nowhere near where he is today.

Unfortunately that didn't happen. Batista was given his initial push, because Orton faultered.

 

[THE Brian Kendrick's Biceps]

I love Mike's arguments. They are ridiculously flawed. All they consist of is, "How do you know Batista wasn't intended on being a star?" If Tista was meant to be the star, then please, step right up and tell me when Batista won the IC Title, and held it for the longest anyone had in five years. Tell me when Batista got a gimmick that was meant to elevate him to the stars. Tell me when Batista had a huge feud with Mick Foley. Oh yeah ... none of that ever happened. Let's think back to Batista in Evolution: He beat Kane at Armageddon 02. Did nothing for ages. Lost to Michaels at Armageddon 03 (after Orton had beaten Michaels at Unforgiven), and won the tag titles. He sure was intended to be a huge star~!!~

WWE's thoughts on Tista and Orton aside, Batista is a shit wrestler. Roided up monkey is first that comes to mind when thinking about him. He has no great talent in the ring, and apparently cries like a little bitch when he doesn't get his way. Just send him packing, and push someone who knows how to talk into a mic.

 

[Great One]

I have to agree with the poster above, but... the biggest problem with Batista is by far his stupidly stale, boring ass character. Honestly, he needs to turn heel, that's where he strived and that's when he also performed best, imo.

 

[MikeRaw]

I love Mike's arguments. They are ridiculously flawed. All they consist of is, "How do you know Batista wasn't intended on being a star?" If Tista was meant to be the star, then please, step right up and tell me when Batista won the IC Title, and held it for the longest anyone had in five years. Tell me when Batista got a gimmick that was meant to elevate him to the stars. Tell me when Batista had a huge feud with Mick Foley. Oh yeah ... none of that ever happened. Let's think back to Batista in Evolution: He beat Kane at Armageddon 02. Did nothing for ages. Lost to Michaels at Armageddon 03 (after Orton had beaten Michaels at Unforgiven), and won the tag titles. He sure was intended to be a huge star~!!~

WWE's thoughts on Tista and Orton aside, Batista is a shit wrestler. Roided up monkey is first that comes to mind when thinking about him. He has no great talent in the ring, and apparently cries like a little bitch when he doesn't get his way. Just send him packing, and push someone who knows how to talk into a mic.

I have to agree with the poster above, but... the biggest problem with Batista is by far his stupidly stale, boring ass character. Honestly, he needs to turn heel, that's where he strived and that's when he also performed best, imo.

LOL, my arguments are flawed? Please, you humor me. read the part I bolded.
That part of our argument was based on YOUR opinion. Your saying he's a shit wrestler, etc, as if that has some effect on whether or not he gets pushed. Wake up, dumbass.
WWE doesn't care if soemone is boring or not, or if they are shit or not, they still push them if they have the "look".
That doesn't mean I agree with it, because I dfind Batista pretty boring too actually.

BUT, he was obviously meant to be a huge star. Not THE huge star, but a huge star. Which means, he was planned to be a main eventer, just like Orton.
And actually, my arguments arent all based on "How do you know Batista wasn't meant to be big?"

But I will retype some of the points for you.

Firstly, in HHH's and Flair's dvd's, they both say that they hand picked Batiosta and Orton, because they thought the BOTH could be main event stars, based on their look and "work ethic". And they said int he dvd numerous times they planne for BOTH to be two of the faces of the company.

Secondly, since when is winning the tag team titles, with RIC FUCKING FLAIR, a small feat? No, he didn't win the IC title, but that doesn't mean they weren't planning on pushing him. IMO, having him destroy and beat the shit out of almost everyone on Raw, week after week for years from 2002 to 2005 was a pretty big push, to plan on giving him momentum for when they make him a main eventer. So that, and many other things show they were planning ahead of time to make him a main eventer as well.

Also, one more point. Another reason Batista's push wasn't because of Orton's push failing, is that, they could've done both at the same time if they wanted.
If they wanted to push both, they could've still, they could've had heel Ortonw in the Rumble, and go to SD to get pushed for a world title thing as well. The fact that they didn't decide to push Orton at that time (WM21) doesn't mean that that is the only reason Batista got his push. They simply chose Batista over Orton for that time.

 

[Moonlight Drive]

Beat the shit out of almost everyone on Raw? Batista was Evolutions enforcer and nothing more. I believe he was just the throwaway guy, he was pretty old for a newcomer which has been said, so they put him in their as the mucsle and to complete the stable. But I honestly don't believe that had the same stuff planned they had for him as they did for Orton until much later on. Name me all the note worthy men Batista 'destroyed' over 2002-2004 and I guarantee all the Legends Randy killed will top them, not only in credibility but in feud & match quality.

Also, let's look at their careers after both had supposedly excelled to the Main Event. Orton feuded and beat guys like Undertaker in an almost year long feud, Chris Benoit, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Rey Mysterio, was Sole Survivor 3 years running and that was just from SS 04 to WM 22.

Batista, who did he feud with and beat? Well, Triple H and that was a HUGE push to beat him at three consequtive PPV's, no denying that. But then what? He feuded with JBL, Eddie Guerrero (RIP), Big Show & Kane and then he got injured.

Anyway, I'm starting to get tired of the argument about who was intended to be the bigger star. It's pretty obvious in my mind it was Orton, and Batista was nothing but an afterthough until later on.

The fact of the matter is, wheteher they intended it or not, Batista should NOT be in the Main Event. For one, he is shitty on the mic and in the ring. Wow, I thought Main Eventers were meant to be the best of the best? And he is stale and boring, he is one-dimensional at best. No character, no ability, no talent, no point.

 

[MikeRaw]

Beat the shit out of almost everyone on Raw? Batista was Evolutions enforcer and nothing more. I believe he was just the throwaway guy, he was pretty old for a newcomer which has been said, so they put him in their as the mucsle and to complete the stable. But I honestly don't believe that had the same stuff planned they had for him as they did for Orton until much later on. Name me all the note worthy men Batista 'destroyed' over 2002-2004 and I guarantee all the Legends Randy killed will top them, not only in credibility but in feud & match quality.

Also, let's look at their careers after both had supposedly excelled to the Main Event. Orton feuded and beat guys like Undertaker in an almost year long feud, Chris Benoit, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Rey Mysterio, was Sole Survivor 3 years running and that was just from SS 04 to WM 22.

Batista, who did he feud with and beat? Well, Triple H and that was a HUGE push to beat him at three consequtive PPV's, no denying that. But then what? He feuded with JBL, Eddie Guerrero (RIP), Big Show & Kane and then he got injured.

Anyway, I'm starting to get tired of the argument about who was intended to be the bigger star. It's pretty obvious in my mind it was Orton, and Batista was nothing but an afterthough until later on.

The fact of the matter is, wheteher they intended it or not, Batista should NOT be in the Main Event. For one, he is shitty on the mic and in the ring. Wow, I thought Main Eventers were meant to be the best of the best? And he is stale and boring, he is one-dimensional at best. No character, no ability, no talent, no point.

Lol, idiot. Did I ever say Batista was meant to be the BIGGER star? Nope. Thanks though. I believe (and know) I said Batista was planned to be A STAR, along with Orton. I never knew Australians couldn't read O_O.

So your little game of comparing Orton and Batista's feuds is useless, because I never said Batista was meant to be a bigger star. I said both of them were meant to be stars, and I still believe that. But I actually liek orton better (Batista bores me)

The point is:
I agree with most people who say Batista is boring, I also find him boring.
Bu tmy point is, whether we want him there or not, and whether we agree with wwe or not, they did plan for both to be main eventers.

 

[THE Brian Kendrick's Biceps]

LOL, my arguments are flawed? Please, you humor me. read the part I bolded.
That part of our argument was based on YOUR opinion. Your saying he's a shit wrestler, etc, as if that has some effect on whether or not he gets pushed. Wake up, dumbass.
WWE doesn't care if soemone is boring or not, or if they are shit or not, they still push them if they have the "look".
That doesn't mean I agree with it, because I dfind Batista pretty boring too actually.

BUT, he was obviously meant to be a huge star. Not THE huge star, but a huge star. Which means, he was planned to be a main eventer, just like Orton.
And actually, my arguments arent all based on "How do you know Batista wasn't meant to be big?"

But I will retype some of the points for you.

Firstly, in HHH's and Flair's dvd's, they both say that they hand picked Batiosta and Orton, because they thought the BOTH could be main event stars, based on their look and "work ethic". And they said int he dvd numerous times they planne for BOTH to be two of the faces of the company.

Secondly, since when is winning the tag team titles, with RIC FUCKING FLAIR, a small feat? No, he didn't win the IC title, but that doesn't mean they weren't planning on pushing him. IMO, having him destroy and beat the shit out of almost everyone on Raw, week after week for years from 2002 to 2005 was a pretty big push, to plan on giving him momentum for when they make him a main eventer. So that, and many other things show they were planning ahead of time to make him a main eventer as well.

Also, one more point. Another reason Batista's push wasn't because of Orton's push failing, is that, they could've done both at the same time if they wanted.
If they wanted to push both, they could've still, they could've had heel Ortonw in the Rumble, and go to SD to get pushed for a world title thing as well. The fact that they didn't decide to push Orton at that time (WM21) doesn't mean that that is the only reason Batista got his push. They simply chose Batista over Orton for that time.

Did I ever say it affected whether he would be pushed? Read my post Mike. You clearly don't know what's going on. I said WWE's opinion aside, which means it has NOTHING to do with whether I think he should be pushed or not. Clearly you should be able to understand that. Or is the concept of posting about my opinion, and WWE's opinion in one post a litttle too much for you to keep up with?

Of course they put Batista over in the DVD's. He was already made into a star when the DVD's were made. They weren't going to say, "Batista wasn't meant to be anything, it was just meant to be Randy!" That would jusy be flat out stupid. You don't say someone wasn't meant to be a star when they become one, especially when you're close friends with them. Common sense Mike, come on.

OK, that's a push? I gues Heidenreich was meant to be a star, because he held the WWE Tag Team Titles with Animal, and was made to look like a muscle bound freak, just like Batista. I guess every big man who comes in and destroys his competition because he is big is in for a big push. Dang, I wonder why Tomko never won the World Heavyweight Championship. Don't you Mike?

His Tag Title run was far from a push. He dropped the belts nearly straight away. He then went into WrestleMania, and was basically an extra in the Handicap Match. Flair and Rock were messing around, and Orton and Foley were feuding. Batista was merely an extra in Evolution, who they decided to throw in the mix to give the heels the numbers advantage.

Your last point is extremely messy. You can't just have Evolution collapse suddenly. batista wouldn't have had the build up, had Orton's push not failed. He wouldn't have had the hype through November, December and January. Notice, this came AFTER Orton's push had failed. If WWE wanted to push them both, then why hadn't there being any signs of a Tista push until after Randy's was screwed up?

Please, try to understand this post correctly. I took the time out to read yours, so please do so to mine too.

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

I'll continue saying it. Batista was always intended to be a main eventer. Not the main eventer he is today, but definitely a main eventer.

 

[Great One]

LOL, my arguments are flawed? Please, you humor me. read the part I bolded.
That part of our argument was based on YOUR opinion. Your saying he's a shit wrestler, etc, as if that has some effect on whether or not he gets pushed. Wake up, dumbass.
WWE doesn't care if soemone is boring or not, or if they are shit or not, they still push them if they have the "look".
That doesn't mean I agree with it, because I dfind Batista pretty boring too actually.

BUT, he was obviously meant to be a huge star. Not THE huge star, but a huge star. Which means, he was planned to be a main eventer, just like Orton.
And actually, my arguments arent all based on "How do you know Batista wasn't meant to be big?"

But I will retype some of the points for you.

Firstly, in HHH's and Flair's dvd's, they both say that they hand picked Batiosta and Orton, because they thought the BOTH could be main event stars, based on their look and "work ethic". And they said int he dvd numerous times they planne for BOTH to be two of the faces of the company.

Secondly, since when is winning the tag team titles, with RIC FUCKING FLAIR, a small feat? No, he didn't win the IC title, but that doesn't mean they weren't planning on pushing him. IMO, having him destroy and beat the shit out of almost everyone on Raw, week after week for years from 2002 to 2005 was a pretty big push, to plan on giving him momentum for when they make him a main eventer. So that, and many other things show they were planning ahead of time to make him a main eventer as well.

Also, one more point. Another reason Batista's push wasn't because of Orton's push failing, is that, they could've done both at the same time if they wanted.
If they wanted to push both, they could've still, they could've had heel Ortonw in the Rumble, and go to SD to get pushed for a world title thing as well. The fact that they didn't decide to push Orton at that time (WM21) doesn't mean that that is the only reason Batista got his push. They simply chose Batista over Orton for that time.

Sorry, when I said I agreed, I didn't really mean about all the flawed argument stuff and even the Batista bashing to be taken literally. I simply find the character extremely boring nowadays, I was a HUGE fan when he was a heel in Evolution (see: NYR 2005 EC, best EC ever...). Skimmed his book as well and it wasn't too bad, lol, pretty funny. Also, it's no secret Batista has a history of bitching about little things, such as the reaction he got at ONS.

And Mike, what people are saying is that Batista wouldn't be nearly as big as he is if Goldberg and Brock Lesnar were still around, which is 100% fucking true. Hell, I'm not even sure if he would be main eventing right now, like you said before, it's about reaction. And Batista's would not even be close to what he got if those two guys (who had similar characters) were still there. That + the HUGE rub from Triple H/Evolution storyline got him EXTREMELY over. Also, I agree with you that they were both meant to be stars (of who which bigger is another argument... although I would say Orton), that's obvious. If any of you even watched during Evolution, you would know this, from the way Triple H hyped them BOTH, not just Orton. Batista and Orton both got the attention, and even more after Orton broke away. They were eventually both probably going to break off from Triple H/Flair. Orton was more of the main focus early, but the plan was either always, or decided a little ways down the line (before the break off of Orton) for them to turn eventually. It's really sad because looking back then it seemed Orton/Batista had much more talent than they do now.. =/. They've BOTH fell down a lot for whatever reasons (drugs, not caring anymore, etc.). Which is the reason I really wouldn't give a shit if Batista left, he's fucking stale and over with.