Am I Just Burned Out?

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Gman003

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Thank you for that read man, that was good and informative.
I have seen a couple interviews and bits from russo in the past on different shows and I had read his blogs the odd time, actually I haven't done that in a long time now, but I liked the guy. And didn't understand why so many people hated him. He was a contributing factor to the reason wwf soared to new heights back then, and I have respect for the guy. I'm goin toook at his blog now that I think of it lol
 
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Zardnaar

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No, he is not overrated, how can Russo be overrated when he still holds the record after 20 long years as the most successful WWE writer and headwriter in history?
No, Russo doesn't try to take credit for everything. Have you ever listened to him or are you just jumping on the Russo bash wagon because it's the cool thing to do?
Vince McMahon can't be responsible for Stone Cold and The Rock simply because those characters and their storylines were not his style. McMahon is known for the style like Super Cena, Super Roman, patriotic hogan, patriotic Luger, USA vs the rest of the world, clowns, plumbers.
Somebody like McMahon who is known for those things because that's his type of humor, entertainment, pro wrestling, can't be responsible for a drunk redneck who gets cheered for doing bad things, a corporate Champion who owned the babyfaces on the mic, Sable, Godfather, Ministry of Darkness, Gangrel etc. The best example that he can't be behind the Attitude Era is when he sent Paul Heyman home prior to the ECW December to Dismember 2006 and took over and instead of giving the fans a show that has that ECW style he booked a typical WWE Sports entertainment nonsense.

When Cornette was in the creative Glen Jacobs was a dentist and fake Diesel. Cornette's only contribution during the Attitude Era or WWE in general during his 10-15 year tenure was "hey why not give the steel cage a roof".

Patterson was great at booking but that had nothing to do with writing Russo was responsible for.
There is a clip on YouTube how the same Shawn Michaels you have mentioned is giving credit to Russo why he was so successful during the late 1997 early 1998.

Russo didn't create Steve Austin and The Rock because there is nobody in the world who could give them charisma, instensity, personality but Russo's strength was always giving the wrestlers the right storyline. It was the talent that made both Rock and Austin successful and legends but both would be lost if they didn't have the right storylines.

McMahon, Hayes, Cornette, Patterson, Brisco and others in the creative were smart, creative guys who contributed to the business a lot in the 80s but they were all lost in the 90s. They didn't know how to deal with the society, they didn't know how to deal with WCW kicking their ass, they didn't know how to deal with the new style of pro wrestling made popular by ECW, they didn't know that the society was more edgy with shows like South Park, Jerry Springer and Howard Stern being the popular shows, that's why he put his magazine writer on the creative, it's because he was the only worker employed by WWE who understood how the society worked back then.
Russo knew how the sociey worked back then, what people wanted and how to change things to make WWE part of the group that was popular in the mainstream.

There is an interesting story Vince Russo told once that explains everything why WWE sucked in mid 90s and why WWE sucks now. When Russo just started as part of the creative the nWo was founded and WCW became more popular than WWE. So one time he was in the office thinking about what to do to beat WCW with their nWo storyline he found a map with future storylines made by other people in the creative. Jim Neidhart was already in WWE with his new gimmick, a masked wrestler named Who, so the big story how to compete with WCW, heel Hogan and nWo was to introduce the brother of Who named What. That's why WWE sucks for years and that's why WWE never had a new Vince Russo because 10 years ago when Breaking Bad started and Heisenberg was the Stone Cold of TV shows at the same time WWE had the face of the company spraying "JBL is poopy" on a car. That explains all, especially the problem and the answer to the question of this topic.

I have watched Russo in shoot interviews and thats why I think he is a tool.

Shawn Michaels for example was telling Vince to go more adult themed. Vince also torpedoed Russos more silly ideas. Without Vince to restrain him we can see what Russo did in WCW and later TNA. WCW was dying but you can blame Russo for putting the belt on Arquette and himself. Hell TNA lost their T deal because of him (or Dixie using him anyway).

Russo did do some thoughts right and have some good ideas, but they were restrained by others and the AE got even better with him gone (I'm watching it right now early 2000).
 

Jacob Fox

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I guess I missed this but I expect it's going around. I've been feeling really burned out on the current WWE product and it's nearly impossible to find a bigger pro wrestling fan than I am. But it's hardly the first time I have been burned out on WWE. Several times in the 90's, I found myself watching WCW and Windy City Wrestling with WWF becoming more of an obligation to watch. Then I completely stopped watching wrestling for 5 years from 1998 to 2003. I quit watching WWE for a few years again and only watched NJPW, ROH and TNA from 2007 to 2010.

For me, though, it's specifically WWE. I watch any other promotion and I find that I still have a passion for it. Watching Raw has seemed much more like a chore lately than a pleasure. I keep up with WWE on the hope that they'll get their act together and put forth a better product. I'll probably keep watching even if they don't. but it has become hard at times.
 
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DualShock

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I have watched Russo in shoot interviews and thats why I think he is a tool.

Shawn Michaels for example was telling Vince to go more adult themed. Vince also torpedoed Russos more silly ideas. Without Vince to restrain him we can see what Russo did in WCW and later TNA. WCW was dying but you can blame Russo for putting the belt on Arquette and himself. Hell TNA lost their T deal because of him (or Dixie using him anyway).

Russo did do some thoughts right and have some good ideas, but they were restrained by others and the AE got even better with him gone (I'm watching it right now early 2000).
You think Russo is a tool but you haven't even explained why.
For the start here's a Shawn Michaels video



And mentioning always McMahon in those topics as some kind of filter is always hilarious because if McMahon is someone who's able to filter ideas of tools and overrated or shitty writers and make great TV then why isn't that the case with WWE during the last years?
McMahon picking 3 out of 5 Russo ideas and put it on TV doesn't mean he filtered ideas, that only means he just choose what storylines made it on TV due to time constraints. Not one storyline was changed by McMahon or anybody else no matter if it's Mark Henry with a tranvestite, I choppy choppy your pee pee or if it's Austin giving the Stunner to McMahon and The Rock's great heel turn in the Deadly Game tournament.
Maybe there were some crazy storylines that didn't made it on TV we don't know about it because it got rejected but everything that made it on TV 97-99 was 100% Russo (and later Ferrara too).
And I don't care nor it is relevant about the year 2000, that's like mentioning constantly Breaking Bad to discredit Twin Peaks but if you want to use the year 2000 to win an argument
in 2000 WWE was already on top with WCW losing momentum almost a year ago and it was already the place to be with characters like The Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, Kane, Chyna and Mick Foley already becoming established superstars plus recognizable stars from other promotions like Benoit, Eddie, Dudleyz and Tazz joining. Back then when Russo joined the creative the WWE was already #2, the rival promotion had the nWo that was red hot at the time and WWEs big stars started leaving the company. When you think about it it's a bigger accomplishment to start working for WWE in 1996 and make great TV than to start working 2000 for the already great WWE, so think about it the next time before using the year 2000 argument
 

Jacob Fox

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You think Russo is a tool but you haven't even explained why.
For the start here's a Shawn Michaels video



And mentioning always McMahon in those topics as some kind of filter is always hilarious because if McMahon is someone who's able to filter ideas of tools and overrated or shitty writers and make great TV then why isn't that the case with WWE during the last years?
McMahon picking 3 out of 5 Russo ideas and put it on TV doesn't mean he filtered ideas, that only means he just choose what storylines made it on TV due to time constraints. Not one storyline was changed by McMahon or anybody else no matter if it's Mark Henry with a tranvestite, I choppy choppy your pee pee or if it's Austin giving the Stunner to McMahon and The Rock's great heel turn in the Deadly Game tournament.
Maybe there were some crazy storylines that didn't made it on TV we don't know about it because it got rejected but everything that made it on TV 97-99 was 100% Russo (and later Ferrara too).
And I don't care nor it is relevant about the year 2000, that's like mentioning constantly Breaking Bad to discredit Twin Peaks but if you want to use the year 2000 to win an argument
in 2000 WWE was already on top with WCW losing momentum almost a year ago and it was already the place to be with characters like The Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, Kane, Chyna and Mick Foley already becoming established superstars plus recognizable stars from other promotions like Benoit, Eddie, Dudleyz and Tazz joining. Back then when Russo joined the creative the WWE was already #2, the rival promotion had the nWo that was red hot at the time and WWEs big stars started leaving the company. When you think about it it's a bigger accomplishment to start working for WWE in 1996 and make great TV than to start working 2000 for the already great WWE, so think about it the next time before using the year 2000 argument


If 3 out of 5 Vince Russo ideas made it and the other two didn't, that's the exact definition of what being a filter was. Vince McMahon has never been the kind of guy to just let anyone have open reign on his company and he never will be. It has been said by numerous wrestlers in their autobiographies and shoot interviews that the majority of Russo's ideas were either modified or never shower up on TV at all. If you do your research correctly, you will find that plenty of people out there discuss angles that either never made it to TV or were quickly axed because they didn't go well.

The 2000 argument is completely valid because WWE was in dire straits and losing and close to going out of business before Russo and the attitude era came along. Vince RUsso HIMSELF said he wanted to go to WCW to see if he could repeat what happened in the WWF. In fact, he said he needed to know if he could do it without Vince McMahon "filtering" him. And guess what, he didn't. That's coming from Russo's own mouth.
 

DualShock

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If 3 out of 5 Vince Russo ideas made it and the other two didn't, that's the exact definition of what being a filter was. Vince McMahon has never been the kind of guy to just let anyone have open reign on his company and he never will be. It has been said by numerous wrestlers in their autobiographies and shoot interviews that the majority of Russo's ideas were either modified or never shower up on TV at all. If you do your research correctly, you will find that plenty of people out there discuss angles that either never made it to TV or were quickly axed because they didn't go well.

The 2000 argument is completely valid because WWE was in dire straits and losing and close to going out of business before Russo and the attitude era came along. Vince RUsso HIMSELF said he wanted to go to WCW to see if he could repeat what happened in the WWF. In fact, he said he needed to know if he could do it without Vince McMahon "filtering" him. And guess what, he didn't. That's coming from Russo's own mouth.
That's not what people mean with filtering. People say "McMahon took a shitty Russo idea and turned it into something great", nope, everything that was on WWE was 100% Vince Russo. McMahon tweaked it a little bit to adjust it WWE style but everything on WWE TV at that time, every swerve, interference, turn, interruption in segments and storylines was Vince Russo's idea.
Not every storyline not aired on WWE TV had to be bad, sometimes a storyline doesn't make it on TV due to time constraints, Russo literally came up with 100 storylines and McMahon couldn't take everything.

As for the second part, yes, Russo said this but he made some mistakes. First one it was the political games in WCW. Back then in WWE everybody was a big team trying to help WWE becoming #1 again against WCW and when somebody tried something, for example HBK refusing to put someone over there was the locker room leader Undertaker taking care of this. Of course there was Vince McMahon having the last word.
In WCW there was no team and they didn't give a fuck about the future of WCW, most of them had creative control and there was no guy like McMahon who had the last word. Russo and Bischoff were hired not to work together as a team, they were hired to work every man for himself and they had differences numerous times because their vision and style of pro wrestling was different. Another factor was Standards & Practices, even Bischoff said they had no chance beating WWE because they were not TV-14 and could not compete.
Another important point is that Russo came to WCW when people slowly stopped to give a fuck about pro wrestling. People blame the Austin heel turn for the end of the wrestling boom but people started to have enough of pro wrestling because of oversaturation because there was too much wrestling on TV.

Back then when Russo started in the creative pro wrestling had the right amount of shows on TV. Raw, Nitro and Hardcore TV, all 3 companies had their respective show. Of course there was also WWF Superstars and WCW Saturday Night but those show started to become B-Shows once their Monday shows started.
When Russo arrived in WCW there was a time when ECW had ECW on TNN & Hardcore TV, WCW had Nitro and Thunder and WWE had Raw and SmackDown and fans became slowly sick of too much wrestling so nobody wanted a change and one more time support an underdog who was the #2 promotion to beat the #1. In 1996 fans supported WCW to become #1 but in 2000 when there was way too much wrestling every week it became exhausting to support once again the #2 to become #1 and to sit through 12 hours every week.
That's the reason the fans turned their back on the #3 promotion, the fans turned their back on the #2 promotion and they waited for the first opportunity and facepalm moment to turn their back on the #1 and pro wrestling in general (that moment happened to be the Austin heel turn).
That's why the WWE Women's champion Madusa appearing on Nitro in 1995 was such a big deal but nobody gave a fuck about WCW Hardcore champion Haku appearing at the Royal Rumble 2001 days after defending his title on WCW TV and that happened months before the Austin heel turn. That's why Russo never had any chance to repeat his success.
 
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Jacob Fox

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That's not what people mean with filtering..

Actually, yes it is. In fact in several WWE documentaries, several of the people involved say exactly that. It is mentioned over and over again in different reference books. In fact, the most common comment I heard is that Vince Russo would have so many ideas, but Vince McMahon would only let one or two off that list actually make it to TV.

So, yeah it is exactly what is meant when people in WWE say it. Maybe not what you want to believe it means, but it is exactly what it means.
 
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