AEW Dynamite May 3rd, 2023: MJF and Sammy Guevara vs Darby Allin and Jack Perry

[Comrade Khan]

I mean, truly it goes with any sporting type thing. Even in outside of wrestling, sports that tend to build rules, upon rules, upon rules can definitely take people out of just watching for enjoyment.

american football is pretty fucking annoying for this for me ngl

 

[Chris]

I really do like the match types theyve come up with with the KOPW title. @Chris been a fan too iirc

most of them but tbf some of the rules I've thought were wack but the execution was done well by the talent. I wouldn't mind a gimmick belt like that in other companies where each match has weird rules. It sucked at first when it was just Yano doing comedy stuff tho lol

 

[Wiseman]

I’ll say if we’re talking generally I especially think simple is overrated sometimes. I think it limits innovation. Especially new match types. Nothing really new can be bore using simplicity.

I'll just disagree that things can't become new or be innovated without losing simplicity.

 

[Wiseman]

american football is pretty fucking annoying for this for me ngl

And that's definitely an example I can understand

 

[Smart Marx]

A good rule of thumb is your match rules should take a maximum of 30 seconds to explain to someone that's never heard of it shouldn't be confused lol

I think this can apply to 99% of matches.

I’ve never seen a match that couldn’t be explain in a single graphic.

 

[Comrade Khan]

most of them but tbf some of the rules I've thought were wack but the execution was done well by the talent. I wouldn't mind a gimmick belt like that in other companies where each match has weird rules. It sucked at first when it was just Yano doing comedy stuff tho lol

yeah I am specifically talking about Shingo's run for sure, the Yano stuff was pretty dumb lol

 

[Smart Marx]

I'll just disagree that things can't become new or be innovated without losing simplicity.

There’s probably currently 80 plus matches currently in existence. Not sure what new match you can invent without at least a few unique rules.

 

[Chris]

I think a big issue with new match concepts a lot too is they know how they're gonna book it but they don't attempt to imagine if it was real so you get the "well what if this happens during the match" discourse that they don't care about bc they just won't book it to happen but thats silly to me bc you're supposed to pretend this shit is real

 

[Wiseman]

There’s probably currently 80 plus matches currently in existence. Not sure what new match you can invent without at least a few unique rules.

I haven't been saying there can't be any unique rules. I haven't been saying every match needs to be a straight up, cut and dry wrestling match. But there can be simplicity without getting too many rules in a match.

 

[Smart Marx]

I think a big issue with new match concepts a lot too is they know how they're gonna book it but they don't attempt to imagine if it was real so you get the "well what if this happens during the match" discourse that they don't care about bc they just won't book it to happen but thats silly to me bc you're supposed to pretend this shit is real

This is true. They should think of the logistics at least.

 

[Comrade Khan]

also for the love of Satan, no penalty box gimmicks

 

[JakeYourBooty]

I miss scaffold matches


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[Smart Marx]

I haven't been saying there can't be any unique rules. I haven't been saying every match needs to be a straight up, cut and dry wrestling match. But there can be simplicity without getting too many rules in a match.

I guess I don’t know what you think is simple then.

For example:

Fans often complain about KOTM, but I love it.

It’s just get a pin to be eligible.
If you get pinned take a timeout.
Win by hanging the belt.

That’s three rules. Is that simple in your opinion?

 

[Wiseman]

I guess I don’t know what you think is simple then.

For example:

Fans often complain about KOTM, but I love it.

It’s just get a pin to be eligible.
If you get pinned take a timeout.
Win by hanging the belt.

That’s three rules. Is that simple in your opinion?

Yes. Honestly, at this point in time I'm not even sure we're debating about anything. I was just saying simplicity, in general, with rules and such is always best. That's all I really put down. It wasn't saying that this trios champs match wasn't simple, as I said it wasn't just pointing at it. At that point in time in this discussion it really wasn't stated for sure that those three rules that Chris mentioned were the only rules that were made stipulations in the matches. For instance, Pure title rules, it has like five rules, but can easily be explained in 20 seconds.

I'll say a for instance with me, the King of the Mountain match, imo, too complex and the execution I have felt, whenever I have watched one of those matches has been sloppy to say the least and IMO, feel it's over complicated in rules and such.

 

[Smart Marx]

Yes. Honestly, at this point in time I'm not even sure we're debating about anything. I was just saying simplicity, in general, with rules and such is always best. That's all I really put down. It wasn't saying that this trios champs match wasn't simple, as I said it wasn't just pointing at it. At that point in time in this discussion it really wasn't stated for sure that those three rules that Chris mentioned were the only rules that were made stipulations in the matches. For instance, Pure title rules, it has like five rules, but can easily be explained in 20 seconds.

I'll say a for instance with me, the King of the Mountain match, imo, too complex and the execution I have felt, whenever I have watched one of those matches has been sloppy to say the least and IMO, feel it's over complicated in rules and such.

Your second paragraph summed up my point. If three rules is too complex we just fundamentally disagree.

No new match can realistically be created without at least 3 rules separating it from the other 80 matches.

And yes, King of the Mountain can also be explained in 20-30 seconds. You need a pin to be eligible to win, if you are pinned you take a timeout, hang the belt to win the match and the title.

It’s fine. We can disagree. I’ve had this discussion before with others. I think simplicity is vastly overrated.