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the dark knight
Guest
btw beautiful cities or not, the only arab thing involved in it is the city's name and the rich out of nothing cocksucker who signed the cheques for the foreign contractors.
the dark knight
Guest
what theory have i provided? im not suggesting anything right now. not a conspiracy or anything, i just wanna know how they found out it was bin laden.
and im seriously loling at "cuz the government said so". best explanation ever....
the dark knight
Guest
the dark knight
Guest
So if a crime happens, and the person who enacted the crime comes out of the blue and admits "I did it", that's not enough reason to believe that they themselves, did it? lol.
I mean, I know its all about being innocent until proven guilty. But damn man does a guy have to fly a jet plane with a huge banner across it stretching several hundred miles saying "It Was Me" in order for us to reasonably take their word that they indeed, did it?
You're argument that this isn't enough substantial proof would be like the prosecuting attorney turning towards the man who admits he did it and screaming at the top of his lungs "NO! You did not do this crime! I do not care how assured you are that you are the perp, you did NOT do this crime and you're gonna like it!"
Plus, even if your rebuttals held any water of trying to sew doubt, but you're not actually pointing out any opposing theory, you're not even debating. You're just being skeptical of an argument for the sake of being skeptical of an argument. With no counter argument, with no position to stand on, with no alternatives being offered, you're just like an 8 year old child that just says "No" to everything offered at the dinner table and when you're asked what you would like for dinner you just sheepishly reply "I dunno!".
Skepticism just to be skeptical is bogus. The man admitted to the crime, his organization took ownership of that crime. And you expect the United States Government to just go "Well, we're just not sure right now. I know those guys over there are dancing on the graves of our soldiers, but man, it just isn't a complicated enough answer for us to take any sort of action".
That's bogus, and you know it's bogus. If you got kicked in the nuts by a masked man and 2 hours later a guy walked up to you and said "Hey, I kicked you in the nuts two hours ago" you'd believe him, and then want to kick his ass. So stop just trying to debunk everyone's arguments and actually offer some argument of your own if you're just going to tell everyone "nope, you're wrong and I'm right. What am I right about? I dunno, but you're certainly more wrong than I."
C4
Guest
Nothing. When did I say the Americans deserved 9/11?
I feel sorry for the people who died on that day. I just think that 9/11 was an inside job by the American government, that's it.
J
Guest
the dark knight
Guest
Wrestling Station
Guest
8 year old history cannot be compared to +50, +100, +300 years old history.
your ass is a uni-anus :shifty: and it shoots biological bombs every couple of hours <_< (altered the radio-waves and cockpit signals during the 9/11)prove me wrong! >_>
i beat you to it.
anyways.. im lol'ing at some of the arguments here.
you're suppose to keep an open mind, and not believe everything you see/hear.
J
Guest
...dang your good, I didn't go back and read any of the other posts but that video just cracks me up, shit in it is sooo true.
1) What was the order that Dick Cheney had given while he knew that Flight 77 was approaching Washington DC?
2) Why was the Flight 93 crash site spread out over 8 miles?
The Pennsylvania state police said debris from the crash has shown up about 8 miles away in a residential area where local media quoted some residents as seeing flaming debris from the sky.
But investigators were unwilling to say whether the presence of debris in two separate places evinced an explosion.
Finding the flight data recorder had been the focus of investigators as they widened their search area today following the discoveries of more debris, including what appeared to be human remains, miles from the point of impact at a reclaimed coal mine.
3) Why did witnesses report hearing military jets in the area of the Flight 93 crash?
But press the mayor for details, and he will add something surprising. "I know of two people -- I will not mention names -- that heard a missile," Stuhl said. "They both live very close, within a couple of hundred yards. . .This one fellow's served in Vietnam and he says he's heard them, and he heard one that day." The mayor adds that based on what he knows about that morning, military F-16 fighter jets were "very, very close." 3
Laura Temyer, who lives several miles north of the crash site in Hooversville, was hanging some clothes outside that morning when she heard an airplane pass overhead. That struck her as unusual since she'd just heard on TV that all flights were grounded.
"I heard like a boom and the engine sounded funny," she told the Daily News. "I heard two more booms -- and then I did not hear anything."
What does Temyer think she heard? "I think the plane was shot down," insists Temyer, who said she has twice told her story to the FBI. What's more, she insists that people she knows in state law enforcement have told her the same thing, that the plane was shot down and that decompression sucked objects from the aircraft, explaining why there was a wide debris field.
4) For what reason are Pentagon surveillance tapes showing the impact of Flight 77 still being withheld?
This one explains itself. What are we going to see that keep the tapes out of public view? Anything? There is still no answer, 8 years later.
5) Why couldn't Osama bin Laden seem to get his story straight about whether or not he had anything to do with 9/11?
Messages issued by bin Laden after September 11, 2001 praised the attacks, and explained their motivation while at first denying any involvement.[58] On September 16, 2001, an Al Jazeera news presenter read a message purportedly signed by Osama bin Laden, in which the following words were stated:
I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation.[59][60][61]
In an interview with Osama bin Laden, published in the Pakistani newspaper Ummat Karachi on September 28, 2001, he stated: "I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act."[62] There was reportedly no way to prove the e-mail published in Pakistan came from bin Laden. The Taliban denied he had access to any communications.[63][64]
In late October 2001, Al Jazeera journalist Tayseer Allouni conducted an interview with Osama bin Laden which was videotaped. Al-Jazeera refused to broadcast it[65] and terminated its affiliation agreement with CNN[66] due to CNN's broadcasting of the interview on January 31, 2002.[67] In the interview, bin Laden addressed the September 11 attacks, saying
If inciting people to do that is terrorism, and if killing those who kill our sons is terrorism, then let history be witness that we are terrorists ... We will work to continue this battle, God permitting, until victory or until we meet God before that occurs.[68]
6) What allowed WTC7 to accelerate vertically at the rate of free-fall in a vacuum?
[yt]V0GHVEKrhng[/yt]
The relevant information in the video above starts at 2:00, and again at 5:45.
Note: A basic understanding of physics is assumed, ie knowing the technical definitions of "speed," "acceleration," how those things are conventionally measured, etc. Seriously, these things need to understood beforehand. I personally am an electronics engineering student and not only have had basic physics recently but have had to demonstrate my competency in it over and over on weekly tests and laboratory reports where we measure and verify these laws directly. NIST admits that at least 2.5 seconds of the drop was exactly at the rate of gravity, not even including air resistance.
Dr. Shyam Sunder replies:
"Could you repeat the question?"
[the question is repeated by the moderator, leaving out the word, "competent" as well as the last sentence]
"Well...um...the...first of all gravity...um...gravity is the loading function that applies to the structure...um...at...um...applies....to every body...every...uh...on...all bodies on...ah...on...um... this particular...on this planet not just...um...uh...in ground zero...um...the...uh...the analysis shows a difference in time between a free fall time, a free fall time would be an object that has no...uh... structural components below it. And if you look at the analysis of the video it shows that the time it takes for the...17...uh...for the roof line of the video to collapse down the 17 floors that you can actually see in the video below which you can't see anything in the video is about...uh... 3.9 seconds. What the analysis shows...and...uh...the structural analysis shows, the collapse analysis shows that same time that it took for the structural model to come down from the roof line all the way for those 17 floors to disappear is...um... 5.4 seconds. It's...uh..., about one point...uh...five seconds or roughly 40% more time for that free fall to happen. And that is not at all unusual because there was structural resistance that was provided in this particular case. And you had...you had a sequence of structural failures that had to take place and everything was not instantaneous."
--------
Note that:
--He acknowledges that freefall can only occur if there is no structure under the falling section of the building.
--He acknowledges that their structural modeling predicts a fall slower than freefall.
--He acknowledges that there was structural resistance in this particular case.
--He acknowledges that there was a sequence of failures that had to take place and that this process was not instantaneous.
Thus, he acknowledges that their model is at variance with the observable fact that freefall actually occurred. Their response is to hold to their model, deny that freefall occurred, and put up a smokescreen of irrelevant measurements that obscure the reality
7) What was the Israeli intelligence connection to 9/11 that remains classified?
This is from a Fox News series that was aired immediately after 9/11.
"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It is classified information."
...
"According to a U.S. intelligence agency, the government of country A (Israel) conducts the most aggressive espionage operation against the U.S. of any U.S. ally."
"The Israelis are motivated by strong survival instincts which dictate every facet or their political and economic policies... It aggressively collects military and industrial technology and the U.S. is high priority target."
"Israel possesses the resources and technical capability to achieve its collection objectives."
2) Why was the Flight 93 crash site spread out over 8 miles?
The Pennsylvania state police said debris from the crash has shown up about 8 miles away in a residential area where local media quoted some residents as seeing flaming debris from the sky.
But investigators were unwilling to say whether the presence of debris in two separate places evinced an explosion.
Finding the flight data recorder had been the focus of investigators as they widened their search area today following the discoveries of more debris, including what appeared to be human remains, miles from the point of impact at a reclaimed coal mine.
3) Why did witnesses report hearing military jets in the area of the Flight 93 crash?
But press the mayor for details, and he will add something surprising. "I know of two people -- I will not mention names -- that heard a missile," Stuhl said. "They both live very close, within a couple of hundred yards. . .This one fellow's served in Vietnam and he says he's heard them, and he heard one that day." The mayor adds that based on what he knows about that morning, military F-16 fighter jets were "very, very close." 3
Laura Temyer, who lives several miles north of the crash site in Hooversville, was hanging some clothes outside that morning when she heard an airplane pass overhead. That struck her as unusual since she'd just heard on TV that all flights were grounded.
"I heard like a boom and the engine sounded funny," she told the Daily News. "I heard two more booms -- and then I did not hear anything."
What does Temyer think she heard? "I think the plane was shot down," insists Temyer, who said she has twice told her story to the FBI. What's more, she insists that people she knows in state law enforcement have told her the same thing, that the plane was shot down and that decompression sucked objects from the aircraft, explaining why there was a wide debris field.
4) For what reason are Pentagon surveillance tapes showing the impact of Flight 77 still being withheld?
This one explains itself. What are we going to see that keep the tapes out of public view? Anything? There is still no answer, 8 years later.
5) Why couldn't Osama bin Laden seem to get his story straight about whether or not he had anything to do with 9/11?
Messages issued by bin Laden after September 11, 2001 praised the attacks, and explained their motivation while at first denying any involvement.[58] On September 16, 2001, an Al Jazeera news presenter read a message purportedly signed by Osama bin Laden, in which the following words were stated:
I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation.[59][60][61]
In an interview with Osama bin Laden, published in the Pakistani newspaper Ummat Karachi on September 28, 2001, he stated: "I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act."[62] There was reportedly no way to prove the e-mail published in Pakistan came from bin Laden. The Taliban denied he had access to any communications.[63][64]
In late October 2001, Al Jazeera journalist Tayseer Allouni conducted an interview with Osama bin Laden which was videotaped. Al-Jazeera refused to broadcast it[65] and terminated its affiliation agreement with CNN[66] due to CNN's broadcasting of the interview on January 31, 2002.[67] In the interview, bin Laden addressed the September 11 attacks, saying
If inciting people to do that is terrorism, and if killing those who kill our sons is terrorism, then let history be witness that we are terrorists ... We will work to continue this battle, God permitting, until victory or until we meet God before that occurs.[68]
6) What allowed WTC7 to accelerate vertically at the rate of free-fall in a vacuum?
[yt]V0GHVEKrhng[/yt]
The relevant information in the video above starts at 2:00, and again at 5:45.
Note: A basic understanding of physics is assumed, ie knowing the technical definitions of "speed," "acceleration," how those things are conventionally measured, etc. Seriously, these things need to understood beforehand. I personally am an electronics engineering student and not only have had basic physics recently but have had to demonstrate my competency in it over and over on weekly tests and laboratory reports where we measure and verify these laws directly. NIST admits that at least 2.5 seconds of the drop was exactly at the rate of gravity, not even including air resistance.
Dr. Shyam Sunder replies:
"Could you repeat the question?"
[the question is repeated by the moderator, leaving out the word, "competent" as well as the last sentence]
"Well...um...the...first of all gravity...um...gravity is the loading function that applies to the structure...um...at...um...applies....to every body...every...uh...on...all bodies on...ah...on...um... this particular...on this planet not just...um...uh...in ground zero...um...the...uh...the analysis shows a difference in time between a free fall time, a free fall time would be an object that has no...uh... structural components below it. And if you look at the analysis of the video it shows that the time it takes for the...17...uh...for the roof line of the video to collapse down the 17 floors that you can actually see in the video below which you can't see anything in the video is about...uh... 3.9 seconds. What the analysis shows...and...uh...the structural analysis shows, the collapse analysis shows that same time that it took for the structural model to come down from the roof line all the way for those 17 floors to disappear is...um... 5.4 seconds. It's...uh..., about one point...uh...five seconds or roughly 40% more time for that free fall to happen. And that is not at all unusual because there was structural resistance that was provided in this particular case. And you had...you had a sequence of structural failures that had to take place and everything was not instantaneous."
--------
Note that:
--He acknowledges that freefall can only occur if there is no structure under the falling section of the building.
--He acknowledges that their structural modeling predicts a fall slower than freefall.
--He acknowledges that there was structural resistance in this particular case.
--He acknowledges that there was a sequence of failures that had to take place and that this process was not instantaneous.
Thus, he acknowledges that their model is at variance with the observable fact that freefall actually occurred. Their response is to hold to their model, deny that freefall occurred, and put up a smokescreen of irrelevant measurements that obscure the reality
7) What was the Israeli intelligence connection to 9/11 that remains classified?
This is from a Fox News series that was aired immediately after 9/11.
"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It is classified information."
...
"According to a U.S. intelligence agency, the government of country A (Israel) conducts the most aggressive espionage operation against the U.S. of any U.S. ally."
"The Israelis are motivated by strong survival instincts which dictate every facet or their political and economic policies... It aggressively collects military and industrial technology and the U.S. is high priority target."
"Israel possesses the resources and technical capability to achieve its collection objectives."
8) How was an explosive fireball supposed to have traveled down about 1000 feet of drywall elevator shafts to cause major explosions in the basement and lobby, and where is evidence to support this rumor?
The evidence of explosions and destruction in the basements and lobby of WTC1 is well-documented. Anyone interested may simply ask and I will provide plenty of sources for this information. One common rumor is that these explosions were caused by either (a) descending elevator cars, or (b) a descending fireball, apparently with enormous destructive power. Note that the fireballs at the impact levels were deflagrations, much slower than true explosions to begin with. Only two elevators ran all the way from the impact floors to the lobby/basements. One of those cars was the main freight elevator, whose operator, Arturo Griffin, survived with a broken leg after his elevator's brakes caught. The only other elevator extending this distance was car 6. Also of note is NYPD officer William Walsh's testimony that it was the lower-level servicing elevators, including basement-servicing elevators in the lobby, that were blown out of their hinges upon his arrival to the lobby of WTC1, not upper-level servicing elevators.
[Lt. Walsh:] What I observed as I was going through these doors and I got into the lobby of the World Trade Center was that the lobby of the Trade Center didn't appear as though it had any lights.
All of the glass on the first floor that abuts West Street was blown out. The glass in the revolving doors was blown out. All of the glass in the lobby was blown out.
The wall panels on the wall are made of marble. It's about two or three inches thick.
They're about ten feet high by ten feet wide. A lot of those were hanging off the wall.
[B.C. Congiusta:] Wait a second.
(Interruption.)
[Walsh:] What else I observed in the lobby was that -- there's basically two areas of elevators. There's elevators off to the left-hand side which are really the express elevators. That would be the elevators that's facing north. Then on the right-hand side there's also elevators that are express elevators, and that would be facing south. In the center of these two elevator shafts would be elevators that go to the lower floors. They were blown off the hinges. That's where the service elevator was also.
[B.C. Congiusta:] Were these elevators that went to the upper floors? They weren't side lobby elevators?
[Walsh:] No, no, I'd say that they went through floors 30 and below.
[B.C. Congiusta:] And they were blown off?
[Walsh:] They were blown off the hinges, and you could see the shafts. The elevators on the extreme north side and the other express elevator on the extreme south side, they looked intact to me from what I could see, the doors anyway.
9) Why did basement levels fill with smoke, and why did underground PATH subway cars also fill with smoke, and why were witnesses confused into thinking explosions were coming from under the towers?
The very first testimony in the following video, from a major news media reporter, is of the underground subway station filling with smoke, including the cars
[yt]F7B_9TXCPX4[/yt]
The evidence of explosions and destruction in the basements and lobby of WTC1 is well-documented. Anyone interested may simply ask and I will provide plenty of sources for this information. One common rumor is that these explosions were caused by either (a) descending elevator cars, or (b) a descending fireball, apparently with enormous destructive power. Note that the fireballs at the impact levels were deflagrations, much slower than true explosions to begin with. Only two elevators ran all the way from the impact floors to the lobby/basements. One of those cars was the main freight elevator, whose operator, Arturo Griffin, survived with a broken leg after his elevator's brakes caught. The only other elevator extending this distance was car 6. Also of note is NYPD officer William Walsh's testimony that it was the lower-level servicing elevators, including basement-servicing elevators in the lobby, that were blown out of their hinges upon his arrival to the lobby of WTC1, not upper-level servicing elevators.
[Lt. Walsh:] What I observed as I was going through these doors and I got into the lobby of the World Trade Center was that the lobby of the Trade Center didn't appear as though it had any lights.
All of the glass on the first floor that abuts West Street was blown out. The glass in the revolving doors was blown out. All of the glass in the lobby was blown out.
The wall panels on the wall are made of marble. It's about two or three inches thick.
They're about ten feet high by ten feet wide. A lot of those were hanging off the wall.
[B.C. Congiusta:] Wait a second.
(Interruption.)
[Walsh:] What else I observed in the lobby was that -- there's basically two areas of elevators. There's elevators off to the left-hand side which are really the express elevators. That would be the elevators that's facing north. Then on the right-hand side there's also elevators that are express elevators, and that would be facing south. In the center of these two elevator shafts would be elevators that go to the lower floors. They were blown off the hinges. That's where the service elevator was also.
[B.C. Congiusta:] Were these elevators that went to the upper floors? They weren't side lobby elevators?
[Walsh:] No, no, I'd say that they went through floors 30 and below.
[B.C. Congiusta:] And they were blown off?
[Walsh:] They were blown off the hinges, and you could see the shafts. The elevators on the extreme north side and the other express elevator on the extreme south side, they looked intact to me from what I could see, the doors anyway.
9) Why did basement levels fill with smoke, and why did underground PATH subway cars also fill with smoke, and why were witnesses confused into thinking explosions were coming from under the towers?
The very first testimony in the following video, from a major news media reporter, is of the underground subway station filling with smoke, including the cars
[yt]F7B_9TXCPX4[/yt]