The Breaking Bad Thread

[Rysenberg]

I've copied and pasted (and tidied up the grammar slightly!) something Cole and I were talking about in our PM conversation that's gone weirdly HQ.

The more I think about it the more I'm indifferent about the final season of Breaking Bad (full 1-16 episodes). I'd definitely rank season 3 and 4 higher than it, and even 1 and 2 are pretty close to it in my mind. I don't know, I just think the show loses a lot of what made me love it.

First off the Nazis were pretty generic Villains, Todd obviously excluded, compared to Walt's previous ones. They spent two and a half seasons building up the Gus and Mike characters, and they had far more depth to them than the Nazis. From what I can see, the Nazis were added solely to give the M60 a purpose. I saw an interview with Vince Gilligan where he said they didn't know whom the machine gun was for when they released 501. Despite it being an awesome flash forward, IMO they should have played it safer and shown him getting the Ricin from the house.

Then there was the Hank stuff. IMO, that didn't last nearly long enough. We waited over 50 episodes for Hank to finally find out about Walt, and we get 6/7 episodes of the two actually up against each other? I found the two of them going up against one and other much more interesting than the Nazis, and I found the conclusion to that pretty disappointing.

The series also got way too far fetched, which wasn't necessary IMO. Yeah there's obviously instances that you need to suspend disbelief and just get on with enjoying the TV show, but Breaking Bad rarely had to resort to that from seasons 1-4. Now the whole magnets and train heist were a little over the top in season 5, but they were hilarious/ridiculously exciting so I can accept that. However, the shootout in 513 and the machine gun in Felina were just completely unnecessary. Sure, I'd find them cool in just about any other show, but with BB I would have loved them to go for something a little less over the top.

The final thing for me is the Jesse character turning into a snitch. Why they just had to chuck his entire character under a bus in that fifth season confuses me. He was so many people's favourite character and in the last half of the fifth season he didn't really do anything besides be depressed and pussy out to the cops. At the end of season 4 he was my favourite character on TV, by the end of season 5 I was not terribly bothered what happened to him.

I don't know what brought on this incoherent rant really. I've been thinking this for a while now, that BB probably should have been extended by about 7 or 8 eps so they could have played out the Hank/Jesse feuds better. I'm not saying season 5 wasn't great, because it was. Ozymandias (my favourite episode ever), Granite state and Felina were all particularly great. However, after years of unbelievable build up from them, they let down a little in S5 IMHO.

 

[Crayo]

hipster

 

[Robbie Coletrain]

I can't copy and paste my reply as I'm on mobile but I agree with him, I'll try and sum it up quickly but it just seemed to end too perfectly for Walt imo, he didn't really get what he deserved, he was a sick, disgusting man capable of poisoning and watching children die and not let it really effect him so he is clearly evil but yet in the end he got almost everything he wanted, aside from Hank getting killed I can't think of much that Walt was unhappy about in the end. He is a horrible man so he just didn't deserve a "happy" ending imo, and his death isn't sad for him I don't think, in the first episode the doctor said he would live two years at max so he's known for two whole years that death was inevitable, he just left things too perfectly imo, Not a bad ending by any stretch of the word but I just expected something more powerful and shocking than what we were left with.

 

[Crayo]

Your opinion of the season Cole kind of stems on your opinion of Walt. I was a huge fan of Walt so the perfect ending for me happened. I can see how haters of Walt might not want the ending to end in his favour, but you might argue losing your family (your kids hating you) which was the original reason for him getting into the business and then dying earlier than planned wasn't perfect.

 

[CM Punk]

For the Neo-Nazis, you really didn't need to get in-depth story for them.
They're hitman. Gus was a drug lord. Completely different types of villains. I really doubt the if they had a back story, it'd change my opinions on them.

As for Jesse, because of one man he has lost so much.

- His drug partner
- Combo
- Jane
- Beat up by Hank
- Brock (Poisoned)
- Andrea
- Mike
- Killing Gale
- And more of which I cannot think of

Jesse had every right to be pissed at Walter. And if he were to turn him in, in exchange to be free, who would pass up an opportunity like that? Walter ruined his life, he couldn't keep getting away with this. See where I'm going?

 

[Lockard 23]

For the Neo-Nazis, you really didn't need to get in-depth story for them.
They're hitman. Gus was a drug lord. Completely different types of villains. I really doubt the if they had a back story, it'd change my opinions on them.

As for Jesse, because of one man he has lost so much.

- His drug partner
- Combo
- Jane
- Beat up by Hank
- Brock (Poisoned)
- Andrea
- Mike
- Killing Gale
- And more of which I cannot think of

Jesse had every right to be pissed at Walter. And if he were to turn him in, in exchange to be free, who would pass up an opportunity like that? Walter ruined his life, he couldn't keep getting away with this. See where I'm going?

All that is true, but Walt also saved Jesse plenty of times...

-Walt could have easily told Hank and the DEA who "Cap 'N Cook" was, but he didn't.
-If not for Walt, then Crazy-8 and Emilio would have certainly killed the both of them in the desert, and Walt was even the one let with the far-more-difficult task of killing another person (whereas Jesse only had to dissolve a dead corpse, and he could barely do that right.)
-Walt could have let Jesse get himself killed at the end of S3 going after the two bangers who killed Tomas. In that case, he could have still continued to make millions working for Gus without any complications, and his partner Gale, who wasn't unpredictable and self-destructive like Jesse, would have never been a problem.
-Walt was gonna kill Gale himself, but couldn't because he was lead to the super lab by Victor. All things considered, Walt did save Jesse's life (ruining his relationship with Gus in the process), the least Jesse could do was save Walter's in return.
-At the end of S4, Walt could have just went straight to the DEA (instead of having to rely on the Disappearer) and told them everything about Gus and his operation and gotten protection for his family (and himself) in the process, but in doing that, he would have sent Jesse to prison as well. So he poisoned Brock to get him back to his side instead. I'm not defending him poisoning of a child, but Jesse was at least part of the problem with siding with Gus in the first place.
-Walt saved him from the Nazis at the end. Sure, he was the one who turned him over to them to start with, but that was at least partially Jesse's fault since he could have made a run for it during the shootout in the desert instead of hiding underneath the car and watching everything go down (including them digging up Walt's money.)

I'm not being biased towards Walt since he's clearly guiltier of more wrongful/bad deeds than Jesse is, but Jesse is no innocent either and if not for Walt, he'd be dead or in prison already. I especially thought his anger over Walt possibly killing Mike was ridiculous when you consider that Mike was a cold-blooded assassin himself who once tried to kill both he and Walt.

 

[Mustafar Reginald]

My favorite episodes are easily Crawl Space, Ozymandias and Face Off. I spent the entire time watching Crawl Space amazed by Cranston't acting ability, for me this was when I realized just how talented he was.

Crawl Space was absolutely fantastic but I suppose it just didn't resonate with me as much as it did with others because I didn't even consider it for my top ten. The ending was absolutely phenomenal though and I don't really have any complaints about it, maybe it'll change when I rewatch the series.

In no order (I'll simply list them chronologically but these are the ten I narrowed it down to), my top ten favorite episodes are Grilled, 4 Days Out, Sunset, One Minute, Fly, Crawl Space, Face Off, To Hajille, Ozymandias and Felina.

Love Sunset and Grilled as well, both fantastic episodes. Tuco was incredible throughout his relatively small role and the whole scene in the RV with Hank was one of the more intense moments and I loved Old Joe saving them. Plus, "this is my own private domicile and I will not be harassed . . . bitch!" is probably my favorite "bitch!" in the entire series.

I've copied and pasted (and tidied up the grammar slightly!) something Cole and I were talking about in our PM conversation that's gone weirdly HQ.

The more I think about it the more I'm indifferent about the final season of Breaking Bad (full 1-16 episodes). I'd definitely rank season 3 and 4 higher than it, and even 1 and 2 are pretty close to it in my mind. I don't know, I just think the show loses a lot of what made me love it.

First off the Nazis were pretty generic Villains, Todd obviously excluded, compared to Walt's previous ones. They spent two and a half seasons building up the Gus and Mike characters, and they had far more depth to them than the Nazis. From what I can see, the Nazis were added solely to give the M60 a purpose. I saw an interview with Vince Gilligan where he said they didn't know whom the machine gun was for when they released 501. Despite it being an awesome flash forward, IMO they should have played it safer and shown him getting the Ricin from the house.

Like Punk said, they're completely different villains and plus they did have a lot more time so I don't think it's really fair to comparing them in-terms of depth or memorability to someone like Gus (not to mention, Giancarlo & Banks are just much, much better actors) but to be honest, I kind of like that they were introduced late in the game and without much depth. Now to be honest, and I can't believe I forgot to mention this in my last gigantic waste of space (in this thread) but I loved how the beginning of the fifth season it was so clear that Walt was the bad guy. I do kind of wish that kept with that direction than the pro-Walt one they ultimately did (at least, in terms of [attempting] to redeem him and for me, they succeeded to an extent, at the very least I liked Walt as a person at the end of the series more than I did for quite some time in the show) but as always, I try to review a show for what they are instead of what I want them to be (not saying you're not doing that, I'm not really disagreeing with your sentiments about the Nazi's but instead going to explain why I liked that about them). I liked that they were presented as more last minute pests that didn't even really become the antagonists until the final three episodes of the series (which I'll point out, are three you pointed out as being great [though I understand it's not because of the Nazi's because that's surely not why I liked them really). I like that they only really become the antagonists because Walt made a mistake. I like that they're not Gus, Mike, well-developed or well-built. They're a mistake Walt made at the end-game and I'm cool with that. I don't know, it some ways it just seems more realistic to me that the end big bads weren't build up over a long time like Gus was (not that Gus being an antagonist wasn't realistic or even as realistic [he was] but narratively wise he made more sense as one while the Nazi's work just because not everything in life is well-built up like Gus or Mike, and sometimes simply getting involved with someone can wrought destruction). Uh, not sure if I'm making a ton of sense here but yeah, I do like them as endgame villains for reasons most would dislike them (and with good reason).

Oh, and I always figured the Nazi's were introduced to give Walt a means to ending the ten potentially squealers in prison and they decided later to reuse them for the M60. I don't know, just seems more like they're style of writing but I haven't heard anything past that they didn't even know the show was going to have Neo Nazi's when they did the initial fast forward.

Then there was the Hank stuff. IMO, that didn't last nearly long enough. We waited over 50 episodes for Hank to finally find out about Walt, and we get 6/7 episodes of the two actually up against each other? I found the two of them going up against one and other much more interesting than the Nazis, and I found the conclusion to that pretty disappointing.

While I agree the Hank/Walt stuff was much more interesting to the Nazi's, again I liked it for what it was. Just a mistake Walt made late in the game that really caught up to him. That's (one of the many reasons) why Ozymandias is my third favorite, it's Walt's empire crumbling down so-to-speak (since he technically put it behind him) and it's all because of mistakes he made. Whether it be earlier ones like leaving that damn Walt Whitman book out or more recent ones. Again, I don't really disagree but I'm more than fine with what we got.

The series also got way too far fetched, which wasn't necessary IMO. Yeah there's obviously instances that you need to suspend disbelief and just get on with enjoying the TV show, but Breaking Bad rarely had to resort to that from seasons 1-4. Now the whole magnets and train heist were a little over the top in season 5, but they were hilarious/ridiculously exciting so I can accept that. However, the shootout in 513 and the machine gun in Felina were just completely unnecessary. Sure, I'd find them cool in just about any other show, but with BB I would have loved them to go for something a little less over the top.

Yeah, I don't have much to say with this as I don't really disagree or even have that different of an opinion. Like I said before, I didn't love Felina, just really liked it.

The final thing for me is the Jesse character turning into a snitch. Why they just had to chuck his entire character under a bus in that fifth season confuses me. He was so many people's favourite character and in the last half of the fifth season he didn't really do anything besides be depressed and pussy out to the cops. At the end of season 4 he was my favourite character on TV, by the end of season 5 I was not terribly bothered what happened to him.

This is the only thing I really disagree with. I don't mind Jesse becoming a snitch at all though I do kind of wish he did more in the season than what he ultimately did but I can say that about most seasons honestly (being my favorite character). I see where you're coming from though, it just didn't bother me and felt natural with what happened over the course of the story so I'm cool with it.

I don't know what brought on this incoherent rant really. I've been thinking this for a while now, that BB probably should have been extended by about 7 or 8 eps so they could have played out the Hank/Jesse feuds better. I'm not saying season 5 wasn't great, because it was. Ozymandias (my favourite episode ever), Granite state and Felina were all particularly great. However, after years of unbelievable build up from them, they let down a little in S5 IMHO.

Well if I'm counting both seasons as one (I don't really, I consider them season 5 and 6 since they are completely different portions of the show) I'd probably rank four as the best season but counting them separately I disagree. I definitely don't think it should've been extended though maybe that's just because I can't really imagine how'd they do it. Well, that's about all I have to say, honestly I may share several of your feelings expressed here later when I rewatch the series but at the moment I'd still say the last thirteen episodes are probably my favorite of the series collectively with season four as a close second.

 

[Lockard 23]

I kind of agree with Rysenberg to an extent. But my problem isn't with the final eight episodes (although I wouldn't have minded an extra episode or two to draw out certain things more, but I digress), it's with the first eight. I'm not saying the first eight episodes (which I typically just refer to as Season 5, since the first and last eight do indeed come off as two separate seasons) are bad, far from it. But they didn't really showcase Heisenberg as being on top and in control of his own meth empire for as long as I would have hoped. The whole season built to that and when he finally achieved it, all three months of it are blown through in a musical montage that lasts about all of three minutes. I really wanted more episodes and more time being shown towards Walt being "the king" as the tagline suggests.

The problem was that Vince Gilligan wanted to end it with a 13-episode season and when AMC gave him three extra episodes, they forced him to split it in half as well, which inevitably made it feel like two different seasons with their own distinct storylines instead of one whole season. Thus, we get eight (instead of thirteen) episodes towards Walt becoming the ruler of his own meth empire, and we get eight (instead of thirteen) episodes towards Walt/Hank and the eventual conclusion (though again, I'm fine with those final eight playing out as they did.)

Love Sunset and Grilled as well, both fantastic episodes. Tuco was incredible throughout his relatively small role and the whole scene in the RV with Hank was one of the more intense moments and I loved Old Joe saving them. Plus, "this is my own private domicile and I will not be harassed . . . bitch!" is probably my favorite "bitch!" in the entire series

The funny thing about Sunset is the first appearance of the Leaves Of Grass book that would eventually damn Walt. This is something you can only know and appreciate the second go around, but it's quite ironic that when Walt gets the call from Hank and discovers that Hank knows that his partner Jesse is involved in cooking the blue crystal meth, Walt just happens to be reading the very same book that would end up being how Hank discovered who Walt was as well.

I liked that they were presented as more last minute pests that didn't even really become the antagonists until the final three episodes of the series (which I'll point out, are three you pointed out as being great [though I understand it's not because of the Nazi's because that's surely not why I liked them really). I like that they only really become the antagonists because Walt made a mistake. I like that they're not Gus, Mike, well-developed or well-built. They're a mistake Walt made at the end-game and I'm cool with that. I don't know, it some ways it just seems more realistic to me that the end big bads weren't build up over a long time like Gus was (not that Gus being an antagonist wasn't realistic or even as realistic [he was] but narratively wise he made more sense as one while the Nazi's work just because not everything in life is well-built up like Gus or Mike, and sometimes simply getting involved with someone can wrought destruction). Uh, not sure if I'm making a ton of sense here but yeah, I do like them as endgame villains for reasons most would dislike them (and with good reason).

Oh, and I always figured the Nazi's were introduced to give Walt a means to ending the ten potentially squealers in prison and they decided later to reuse them for the M60. I don't know, just seems more like they're style of writing but I haven't heard anything past that they didn't even know the show was going to have Neo Nazi's when they did the initial fast forward.

I agree with the first paragraph. I like that the Nazis being the final villains that Walt must conquer doesn't necessarily mean they have to be the most dangerous, per se. Gus clearly was the greatest adversary that Walt ever faced and was the hardest to defeat, but to go along with that logic, both cases of Walt winning came down to circumstance as well - when Walt had to outsmart Gus and kill him, he and Gus were both aware that they were up against each other and it was a game of chess in a way. But with the Nazis, they had no idea that Walt had any intentions of killing them and so it was easier to get them all in one place so that the remote-controlled M60 could mow them all down at once (which is easily one of my favorite scenes in the history of the show.)

As for the second point, Vince Gilligan said they had no idea who the M60 was for when they first introduced it into the show. Even after filming the first eight episodes, they still debated how it could used (and one idea was Walt shooting up a police station!) But it ultimately would have to come down to either the Nazis or (as most people figured) Declan and his crew. A distant third choice would probably be the people in the Czech Republic that Lydia transports the blue meth to. Between Declan and Jack and his crew, I'll go with the latter and I'm glad the writers did, too. We only saw Declan for a couple of scenes (not counting the scene where he gets iced), but he came off as a cool and laid back sort of guys in both of those scenes and thus would probably be the kind of guy that was hard to hate, whereas the Nazis seemed more like a group of dangerous, no-good thugs, and thus easier to get the audience to desire seeing them get taken out by Walt. Plus, they had Todd with them, who already had an established role in the series that could be further expanded on, not to mention they were instrumental in getting rid of the guys in prison. I also didn't feel they needed any more character development either. We saw enough of them to "get" what they were, there was really nothing more to be said about them (unless they were to harp on their Nazism, and I'm glad they didn't), other than they are armed and dangerous killers and are connected to a much larger gang of deadly killers (The Aryan Brotherhood) as well.

 

[Rogue]

Such a great tribute video:

 

[Rysenberg]

Forgot about my post. I'll respond to the replies later.

 

[Mustafar Reginald]

Such a great tribute video:

Not a fan. It's well-produced but I just don't think the song choice fits. "Hurt" is a song brimming with contrition (Johnny Cash's version anyway), and that's an attribute I stopped associating with Walter White way before the Felina (the point in the series where Hurt would be applicable, at least in the sense that Cash's version is a reflection upon life as it's ending). Also, kind of question the narrative of the video, incorporating the Jane storyline into this seemed more like an easy way to make the lyrics match the video rather than telling a cohesive narrative within the tribute.

 

[CM Punk]

Alternate ending to Breaking Bad.

@Big Hoss Rambler @Rysenberg @Crayo @Robbie Coletrain @Mustafar Reginald @KLockard23 @Danielson @Xanth @Senhor Perfect @Mustafar Reginald @Vintage®

 

[CM Punk]

Link btw.
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/11/18/the-never-before-seen-alternate-ending-to-breaking-bad

 

[Senhor Perfect]

That would've been hilarious!

 

[Big Hoss Rambler]

I've seen it already. I heard this was on the Blu Ray DVD set of Breaking Bad.

That's not the full video btw. It's this.