Wrestlemania discussion

[ahorrig]

Im hoping cody rhodes comes back, going on his stupid but entertaining gimmick, saying how he isnt so "beautiful" or whatever. Rey vs cody would have HUGE potential.

 

[Beer]

They are fixing shows and matches to make us believe the Miz is better than he actually is.

You're an idiot. They make everyone in the company look better than they are. That's the point. You think Rey isn't made to look better than he actually could perform? You fucking moron.

 

[1chiban]

Isn't every match fixed to push who they like?

 

[Kaedon]

You're an idiot. They make everyone in the company look better than they are. That's the point. You think Rey isn't made to look better than he actually could perform? You fucking moron.

no, Rey can perform with anyone. He made that piece of garbage cruiserweight title worth something, enough to where he mained a few SDs back in the day. They are giving Miz a rub much like they did with Eugene and Kozlov when he was feuding with Taker. Miz is far from the most over guy in the company and he's headlining the biggest event of the year, so lets build interest in his feud by bringing in someone else who can actually draw. If it wasn't for Rock, there would be little interest in Cena/Miz

 

[Axis]

no, Rey can perform with anyone. He made that piece of garbage cruiserweight title worth something, enough to where he mained a few SDs back in the day. They are giving Miz a rub much like they did with Eugene and Kozlov when he was feuding with Taker. Miz is far from the most over guy in the company and he's headlining the biggest event of the year, so lets build interest in his feud by bringing in someone else who can actually draw. If it wasn't for Rock, there would be little interest in Cena/Miz

You're probably right. But think back to Wrestlemania 15. If it wasn't for Vince McMahon, would there have been much interest in the Rock? Wasn't the Rock sort of just a pawn in the overarching feud between Vince McMahon and Stone Cold? I'd say it's a reasonable parallel to say that Cena and Rock might be drawing the most interest, but the Miz is playing the role that Rocky played back in '99. That shouldn't take anything away from the Rock back then. He was given a role and he played it very well. It also shouldn't take anything from the Miz 12 years later. He's being given a role in this overarching story, and he's playing it well.

 

[Kaedon]

Uh yeah there would have been. Stone Cold and Rock were onto the next chapter of their epic feud. Austin and Rock had been selling out arenas already, miz/cena hasnt done shit.

 

[Axis]

Uh yeah there would have been. Stone Cold and Rock were onto the next chapter of their epic feud. Austin and Rock had been selling out arenas already, miz/cena hasnt done shit.

Really? Certainly Austin had been selling out arenas, nobody is arguing that. At the same time, John Cena has been selling out arenas, so that point is moot. The question is over the Rock prior to Wrestlemania 15. What arenas did Austin and the Rock sell out in their feud prior to Wrestlemania 15? Even if are talking about just the Rock, which arenas did he sell out? The only PPV he main evented prior to Wrestlemania 15 was the Survivor Series where he won the title. And it is hard to argue that he sold out the arena when nobody knew what the main event was heading into the show (given that it was a tournament-style PPV). Certainly the Undertaker, Stone Cold, and Mankind deserve some credit there, wouldn't you say? He had certainly become a big name with his Superbowl Halftime match with Foley, and a classic at the Rumble (though the Rumble itself was far more about Austin getting back to the WWF Championship than it was about the Rock).

Judging by the fact that Austin was selling out arenas with a plethora of people (Foley, Undertaker, Kane) all under the overarching theme of a big feud with Vince, I think it is hard to argue that the Rock specifically played an independent role in that. Sure they feuded a bit over the IC Title, but was that feud was in the undercard. Then Austin exploded in his own right. My fundamental question is this, are you really arguing that The Rock was a star before Wrestlemania 15? It seems that we have a case of trying to rewrite wrestling history if that's the case. I hope it's not, because I believe you are more intelligent than that. I do not just mean a "star" as in a "top guy." By those standards, The Miz is a star, which I think we both agree is untrue. The question is, was the Rock on the level of Austin, the Undertaker, etc.? As I stated before, the Rock played a role in the overarching Vince vs Austin feud, and he played it very very well. So well, in fact, that coming out of it, he was a star in his own right. But to argue that he was "selling out arenas" prior to that is stretching the facts to fit your stubborn narrative.

 

[monkeystyle]

Really? Certainly Austin had been selling out arenas, nobody is arguing that. At the same time, John Cena has been selling out arenas, so that point is moot. The question is over the Rock prior to Wrestlemania 15. What arenas did Austin and the Rock sell out in their feud prior to Wrestlemania 15? Even if are talking about just the Rock, which arenas did he sell out? The only PPV he main evented prior to Wrestlemania 15 was the Survivor Series where he won the title. And it is hard to argue that he sold out the arena when nobody knew what the main event was heading into the show (given that it was a tournament-style PPV). Certainly the Undertaker, Stone Cold, and Mankind deserve some credit there, wouldn't you say? He had certainly become a big name with his Superbowl Halftime match with Foley, and a classic at the Rumble (though the Rumble itself was far more about Austin getting back to the WWF Championship than it was about the Rock).

Judging by the fact that Austin was selling out arenas with a plethora of people (Foley, Undertaker, Kane) all under the overarching theme of a big feud with Vince, I think it is hard to argue that the Rock specifically played an independent role in that. Sure they feuded a bit over the IC Title, but was that feud was in the undercard. Then Austin exploded in his own right. My fundamental question is this, are you really arguing that The Rock was a star before Wrestlemania 15? It seems that we have a case of trying to rewrite wrestling history if that's the case. I hope it's not, because I believe you are more intelligent than that. I do not just mean a "star" as in a "top guy." By those standards, The Miz is a star, which I think we both agree is untrue. The question is, was the Rock on the level of Austin, the Undertaker, etc.? As I stated before, the Rock played a role in the overarching Vince vs Austin feud, and he played it very very well. So well, in fact, that coming out of it, he was a star in his own right. But to argue that he was "selling out arenas" prior to that is stretching the facts to fit your stubborn narrative.

Axis Warning. Feeding the troll.

You aren't immune.

 

[Kaedon]

Really? Certainly Austin had been selling out arenas, nobody is arguing that. At the same time, John Cena has been selling out arenas, so that point is moot. The question is over the Rock prior to Wrestlemania 15. What arenas did Austin and the Rock sell out in their feud prior to Wrestlemania 15? Even if are talking about just the Rock, which arenas did he sell out? The only PPV he main evented prior to Wrestlemania 15 was the Survivor Series where he won the title. And it is hard to argue that he sold out the arena when nobody knew what the main event was heading into the show (given that it was a tournament-style PPV). Certainly the Undertaker, Stone Cold, and Mankind deserve some credit there, wouldn't you say? He had certainly become a big name with his Superbowl Halftime match with Foley, and a classic at the Rumble (though the Rumble itself was far more about Austin getting back to the WWF Championship than it was about the Rock).

Judging by the fact that Austin was selling out arenas with a plethora of people (Foley, Undertaker, Kane) all under the overarching theme of a big feud with Vince, I think it is hard to argue that the Rock specifically played an independent role in that. Sure they feuded a bit over the IC Title, but was that feud was in the undercard. Then Austin exploded in his own right. My fundamental question is this, are you really arguing that The Rock was a star before Wrestlemania 15? It seems that we have a case of trying to rewrite wrestling history if that's the case. I hope it's not, because I believe you are more intelligent than that. I do not just mean a "star" as in a "top guy." By those standards, The Miz is a star, which I think we both agree is untrue. The question is, was the Rock on the level of Austin, the Undertaker, etc.? As I stated before, the Rock played a role in the overarching Vince vs Austin feud, and he played it very very well. So well, in fact, that coming out of it, he was a star in his own right. But to argue that he was "selling out arenas" prior to that is stretching the facts to fit your stubborn narrative.

Im arguing one of the only things good about the attitude era that everyone seems to think was the shit was really The Rock, and a lot of it was the Rock/Austin feud. When they were feuding for the IC title and Austin was on the rise, them and DX were the only good things about that attitude Era. Devil Taker was boring, the "stable wars" were really shitty because almost everyone in all of those stables were fucking j-brones, and who gave a fuck about shit like the Brawl 4 all? Come on. The Rock, DX, and Austin are the reason the WWE won the Monday Night Wars, so yeah Rock was a star before WM 15. He was the only reason anyone gave a rats ass about the Nation for fucks sake.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

Rock wasn't half the star he was until Austin minted him @ 15. Then when he turned full on face, that's when he got on Austin's level, but it was still Austin on top until Austin's injury. Austin's injury was probably the best thing that ever happened to Rocky in all seriousness.

 

[ahorrig]

Honestly, if they have the rock special ref the match at WM, i might scream. No-one needs a stipulation at WM like that. It wuld just be a waste of time, and would overshadow the fact it is miz and cena.

 

[Kaedon]

Rock wasn't half the star he was until Austin minted him @ 15. Then when he turned full on face, that's when he got on Austin's level, but it was still Austin on top until Austin's injury. Austin's injury was probably the best thing that ever happened to Rocky in all seriousness.

Yeah Rocks success was all on Austin, give me a fucking break. Rock and Austin, collectively, along with DX were the reason the WWE were able to survive the nWo and WCW's rise. If any of those parts are missing, we might be talking about Spring Stampede instead of Wrestlemania right now. If he wasn't a star until "Austin made him" then he was worthless in the Monday Night Wars and that's just Blue.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Yeah Rocks success was all on Austin, give me a fucking break. Rock and Austin, collectively, along with DX were the reason the WWE were able to survive the nWo and WCW's rise. If any of those parts are missing, we might be talking about Spring Stampede instead of Wrestlemania right now. If he wasn't a star until "Austin made him" then he was worthless in the Monday Night Wars and that's just Blue.

Once again, prior to the DX feud, people HATED The Rock. Sure, he had some momentum for his IC Title feud with Austin (but as you like to point out) he was getting a rub off of Austin more than anything else.

When Rock started doing his promo work and stealing the mic from Farooq, THEN he started to gain a little following, but he was still just floating about.

Then he held his own with DX in promos and ridiculous backstage segments... but was still being carried in the ring by Triple H... getting a HUGE RUB from one of the top names in the company. And then he goes on to the Corporation as Vince's lackey to (as Axis has been saying) do what he was told and play the part in the ongoing Austin vs. McMahon feud. Yes, he was getting over at this point, but he was still just playing his part in the company propelling from Austin's popularity... not DX, not The Rock... AUSTIN.

Miz is simply playing his part while the company continues to propel with John Cena, and Miz is growing into one of the top heels of the future of the WWE.

 

[1chiban]

The issue the Rock had was the heat he got from the fans for being shoved down their throat as that Samoan influenced smiley nice guy he debuted as. As you say, once he joined the Nation and then started to rebel the ball started to roll slowly, starting to pick up pace as he worked and learned from others.

The Summerslam 98 ladder match with Trips still remains one of Rock's best matches imo and is probably high up on Trips' list for me.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

The issue the Rock had was the heat he got from the fans for being shoved down their throat as that Samoan influenced smiley nice guy he debuted as. As you say, once he joined the Nation and then started to rebel the ball started to roll slowly, starting to pick up pace as he worked and learned from others.

The Summerslam 98 ladder match with Trips still remains one of Rock's best matches imo and is probably high up on Trips' list for me.

But could Rock have pulled that good of a Ladder match off with many people other than Triple H? Like say... a Jerry Lawler? Probably not...