What If? - The Screwjob Never Happened

[white crow]

Dual has some interesting posts but I’m just too lazy to read ‘em, they are fuckin huge. Nice job on contributing to discussion
:thumbsup:

 

[InsaneAlphaBeta]

<_<
>_>
Well, i tried to contribute lol.

Honestly after all the perspectives ive heard from countless people (includeing Dave Meltzer) i have no doubt it was real, there are so many factors in such a risky situation that nobody could do that and predict how it would go.

For example, why on earth would Vince want one of his biggest stars to go work for anyone other then him? and why WCW of all places? the very place hes at war with? why send Bret to your competition? with him being under contract to WCW its on WCW to book him appropriately, and if bret were to try and do it crap people would likely see right through it, and even then its not like anyone in WWE could have predicted how WCW would book him or how fans would have responded.

Also if it was a work, why on earth would you act like it was real? saying "Oh that was real" immediately puts attention to everything else being a work and fake which makes it mean less and exposes the buisness in such a way it had not been before, despite Meltzer doing his thing even then.

With so many first hand accounts of what happened (includeing Jim Cornette, whose podcast i linked, he talks with dave meltzer about that whole event (Dave actually talked with bret i think the day after the screwjob happened) and i highly recommend listening to it) its hard for me to think it was a work, and truth is i just cant. People like Meltzer there job is to report on backstage stuff, so if anyone would say the truth of it being a work or shoot it would be him, no hes not perfect when it comes to scoops, perhaps hes fed wrong information at times, but when it comes to wrestling history the man is one of the best, so with all of that and more details i dont have time to get into, i cant see it being a work. And like i said i recommend giving that podcast a listen where they talk about it, its great stuff regardless of which side of the fence you sit on.

 

[Jacob Fox]

<_<
>_>
Well, i tried to contribute lol.

Honestly after all the perspectives ive heard from countless people (includeing Dave Meltzer) i have no doubt it was real, there are so many factors in such a risky situation that nobody could do that and predict how it would go.

For example, why on earth would Vince want one of his biggest stars to go work for anyone other then him? and why WCW of all places? the very place hes at war with? why send Bret to your competition? with him being under contract to WCW its on WCW to book him appropriately, and if bret were to try and do it crap people would likely see right through it, and even then its not like anyone in WWE could have predicted how WCW would book him or how fans would have responded.

Vince actually wanted Bret Hart to go to WCW. He signed a contract that Vince was not able to hold. He was going broke. Vince tried to book Hart in many matches against HBK. He proposed a series of five matches against Michaels in which Hart would only win one. Vince was trying to get him to leave. Hart even agreed to defer payment of his salary but Vince kept trying to force him to leave.

Vince's idea was to humiliate Hart in order to try and hurt his credibility. It backfired though. But the basic fact is that Vince regretted signing him to a 20 year, 20 million dollar contract in order to keep him from going to WCW.

 

[bullyballmm]

For example, why on earth would Vince want one of his biggest stars to go work for anyone other then him? and why WCW of all places? the very place hes at war with? why send Bret to your competition? with him being under contract to WCW its on WCW to book him appropriately, and if bret were to try and do it crap people would likely see right through it, and even then its not like anyone in WWE could have predicted how WCW would book him or how fans would have responded.

Like Foxxy Cleopatra said, money. Vince could not afford (or just didn't want to) pay Hart the massive sum he initially agreed to. So I believe he thought having Bret go to WCW was a win-win: WWF saves money, while WCW is forced to pay a large sum if they wanted Hart.

Also if it was a work, why on earth would you act like it was real? saying "Oh that was real" immediately puts attention to everything else being a work and fake which makes it mean less and exposes the buisness in such a way it had not been before, despite Meltzer doing his thing even then.

Because pretending it was real created controversy and helped give the newly created Mr. McMahon character legitimate heel mega-heat. Also gotta keep in mind that this happened in a time of the rise of the Internet and the "rag sheets". WCW was winning at this time, and doing things like sorta-acknowledging that wrestling is fake by referring to things like the Observer made the young male audience just more interested in the product. The business was already being exposed and it seemed like the fans didn't mind it being exposed.

 

[Geese]

Because pretending it was real created controversy and helped give the newly created Mr. McMahon character legitimate heel mega-heat. Also gotta keep in mind that this happened in a time of the rise of the Internet and the "rag sheets".

There was no "pretend" as it was, indeed, legitimate.

Marks had already known wrestling was all a work decades before the screwjob ever happened. For instance, during Gorgeous George's era people would come up to him and ask him if it was real or fake. People figured it was all for show decades before Montreal ever happened.

Those "rag sheets" you are referring to was first created by Dave Meltzer's Wrestling Observer in 1982, fifteen years before the Screwjob. Another short-lived rag sheet, The Bite with Vic Venom, which went in-depth of the wrestling industry was published two years before the Screwjob incident occurred.

The Mr. McMahon heel persona was already receiving heat from the fans months before the Screwjob occurred.

WCW was winning at this time, and doing things like sorta-acknowledging that wrestling is fake by referring to things like the Observer made the young male audience just more interested in the product. The business was already being exposed and it seemed like the fans didn't mind it being exposed.

The business had long been exposed. People, even die-hard marks, had known it was a work all along decades before Montreal happened.

Vince McMahon acknowledged wrestling was all scripted in 1989 to avoid having to pay taxes and State Athletic Commission regulations. I think he said this in front of the New Jersey State Senate.

 

[bullyballmm]

Yeah I already promised not to engage with you here, but I will say this:

I AM SAYING EVERYTHING I AM SAYING WITH THE IF QUALIFICATION ALWAYS IN PLAY. It just gets tiring having to constantly add that qualification. I don't know whether it is a work or a shoot. I am just to making the claim to rule one scenario out at all, which is what you're doing.

Also, I was referring to the young fans that both companies wanted when I was talking about creating controversy to grab the fans attention. The young fans for the most part viewed wrestling as real.

I know dirt sheets existed before 1997. My point was that they became more popular, especially with the rise of the Internet that these young fans were getting access to at the time.

The heat that Mr. McMahon was receiving before the screwjob was not at all the same level that he got after the screwjob. Plus the screwjob allowed Hart to leave the company as a face, especially in the eyes of the Canadian fans as @DualShock points out.

 

[DualShock]

<_<
>_>
Well, i tried to contribute lol.

And you did but I'm too busy to watch a video that's over 2 hours long but I will do it over the next days because it seems interesting. Still, I did watch some parts and one part is very interesting.
Cornette and Meltzer said that younger fans who watch wrestling in 2019 probably didn't realize the meaning of a championship in 1997 and how important the Bret Hart situation with the belt was back then which is ironic because both guys were around in 1997 and didn't realize that 1996/1997 was a transitional period in wrestling when championship belts became sometimes props, titles changed on a weekly basis, storylines for the championships became more complex instead of just "Ultimate Warrior challenges Hulk Hogan", every Raw show was a little PPV instead of shows with jobbermatches, the two wrestlers were not the only stars in a feud because suddenly the spotlight was also on a ref, manager, promoter, commentator who could play a part.
Sable became more important than her husband in the ring, Nick Patrick as nWo ref got more attention than some wrestlers who were in the ring, the camera was more on the heel Jim Ross than the action in the ring and shows like WWF Livewire with non-wrestlers like Jim Cornette, Dok Hendrix, Vic Venom and Sunny got more attention than a match on WWF Superstars. The Screwjob would look awkward if it did happen in 1993 or 1995 but in 1997 it was fitting because of the style of WWE, WCW and ECW and the direction pro wrestling was heading.

There was no "pretend" as it was, indeed, legitimate.

Marks had already known wrestling was all a work decades before the screwjob ever happened. For instance, during Gorgeous George's era people would come up to him and ask him if it was real or fake. People figured it was all for show decades before Montreal ever happened.

Those "rag sheets" you are referring to was first created by Dave Meltzer's Wrestling Observer in 1982, fifteen years before the Screwjob. Another short-lived rag sheet, The Bite with Vic Venom, which went in-depth of the wrestling industry was published two years before the Screwjob incident occurred.

The Mr. McMahon heel persona was already receiving heat from the fans months before the Screwjob occurred.



The business had long been exposed. People, even die-hard marks, had known it was a work all along decades before Montreal happened.

Vince McMahon acknowledged wrestling was all scripted in 1989 to avoid having to pay taxes and State Athletic Commission regulations. I think he said this in front of the New Jersey State Senate.

Yes but the real problem started with the start of the internet. Fans realized it was scripted a long time ago but it was easy for wrestling companies to take care of it. Wrestling shows were taped so it was easy to edit the chants, wrestling magazines chose only the letters written by marks, with the internet everybody had the power to voice his opinion. It's one thing if a kid in 1989 watches wrestling on TV and his brother or father says "It's fake" but if a kid watches wrestling in 1997 and goes online, not only does he hear 500 people saying it's fake, he learns that Brutus Beefcake was in SummerSlam and Starrcade main events only because he is Hogan's buddy, that Macho Man and Genius are brothers, that WrestleMania III attendance number was made up, that Sting was supposed to be the third nWo man or that Jack Tunney wasn't really the president.
So from the mid-nineties pro wrestling became not only "even the last fan will now know wrestling is fake" it became also "fans will learn about some stuff win the business we have protected for decades". That's why pro wrestling was forced to change it's game, that's why Vince McMahon did the promo how " WWF is tired to have your intelligence insulted". Maybe the Screwjob was one of the first examples.

 

[WrestleRacer91]

Anybody care to see how I booked the day after Survivor Series '97 up until WrestleMania XIV? Because I did in this very thread...

 

[bullyballmm]

Sorry about that, a new thread should have probably been created where me, DS, Geese and Jacob could have argued amongst ourselves without veering off the topic of your thread

Are you planning to make another "What If?" post based on something else?

 

[Grievous 3D]

...This thread wouldn't exist?

:idk3:

 

[bullyballmm]

...This thread wouldn't exist?

:idk3:

I think somebody already made that joke earlier but I cbs going back and checking

 

[Grievous 3D]

I think somebody already made that joke earlier but I cbs going back and checking

Probably...I've never been the most original forum member.

 

[bullyballmm]

Probably...I've never been the most original forum member.

You're clearly not the OG (Original Grievous) ?

 

[Grievous 3D]

You're clearly not the OG (Original Grievous) ?

I'm pretty sure I am...

The Charlotte Worship proves it.

Anyway...lets not ruin this thread about
something that happened...22 years ago.

Ugh...

 

[white crow]

Anyway...lets not ruin this thread about
something that happened...22 years ago.

And even if it didn’t happen wrestling world would be exactly the same, so again I don’t see a point in this “What If” question. Maybe OP wanted to know would Bret still hate HBK and Vince so much.