What If? - The Screwjob Never Happened

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white crow

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I don’t quite get what are you talking about, Montreal screwjob didn’t change anything. WWE would be pretty much the same with or without it. Montreal screwjob ruined the relationship between Bret Hart and HBK, and Bret Hart and Vince, it didn’t change anything in wrestling as a bussines. Bret Hart was planning on to going to WCW anyways and that’s what happened after it. Both WWE and WCW plans stayed the same and were realized, Montreal screwjob had no impact on them.
 

DualShock

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Not trying to troll here because I consider the Screwjob a work and most fans are so oversensitive when someone calls it a work like a religious guy when you tell him that God doesn't exist. The reason I had to post this is because 1998 looked the way it did is because of the booking in 1997 involving the booked Screwjob.
 

bullyballmm

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I don’t quite get what are you talking about, Montreal screwjob didn’t change anything. WWE would be pretty much the same with or without it. Montreal screwjob ruined the relationship between Bret Hart and HBK, and Bret Hart and Vince, it didn’t change anything in wrestling as a bussines. Bret Hart was planning on to going to WCW anyways and that’s what happened after it. Both WWE and WCW plans stayed the same and were realized, Montreal screwjob had no impact on them.

The onscreen Vince McMahon character came about because of the Screwjob. We might not have all these authority storylines if the Screwjob didn't happen.
 

Jacob Fox

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Not trying to troll here because I consider the Screwjob a work and most fans are so oversensitive when someone calls it a work like a religious guy when you tell him that God doesn't exist. The reason I had to post this is because 1998 looked the way it did is because of the booking in 1997 involving the booked Screwjob.

There is no way possible that the screwjob was a work. And me telling you that has nothing to do with being oversensitive. For it to be a work, Bret Hart, who had creative control, would have had to be willing to humiliate himself in his home country. Anybody even slightly familiar with Hart would know this was not a possibility. Hell, his senior citizen father would have beaten the shit out of him for even considering taking part.

For the screwjob to have been a work, you would have to question the integrity of both Bret Hart and the Undertaker, two men whose integrity in wrestling is quite respected. And the reason I mention Taker is because it is well known that he was the one who forced Vince McMahon to go to Hart's dressing room and apologize.

There was no motivation for Hart to go along with such a thing.

The onscreen Vince McMahon character came about because of the Screwjob. We might not have all these authority storylines if the Screwjob didn't happen.

I tend to agree more with Crow, despite the fact that he likes Orton (Just kidding, Crow). The seeds for Mr. McMahon were planted a couple months before the Screwjob when Austin stunned McMahon. I think Mr. McMahon was Vince's reaction to Eric Bischoff in WCW. He tried being the bad guy in charge and it worked better because Bischoff was just the executive producer of WCW whereas Vince owned WWE. He had no one who could tell him what to do.
 

bullyballmm

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I tend to agree more with Crow, despite the fact that he likes Orton (Just kidding, Crow). The seeds for Mr. McMahon were planted a couple months before the Screwjob when Austin stunned McMahon. I think Mr. McMahon was Vince's reaction to Eric Bischoff in WCW. He tried being the bad guy in charge and it worked better because Bischoff was just the executive producer of WCW whereas Vince owned WWE. He had no one who could tell him what to do.

Ok fair points. What do you think would have to replace Vince saying "Bret Screwed Bret" for him to truly achieve nuclear Vince heat? Screwing over Austin? Austin was a bit of a dick character, so even though the crowd loved him, I don't think screwing him over would elicit the same response as screwing Bret in Canada.

I can only think of screwing over Foley in a match (maybe the famous cell match with Taker?)
 

Jacob Fox

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Ok fair points. What do you think would have to replace Vince saying "Bret Screwed Bret" for him to truly achieve nuclear Vince heat? Screwing over Austin? Austin was a bit of a dick character, so even though the crowd loved him, I don't think screwing him over would elicit the same response as screwing Bret in Canada.

I can only think of screwing over Foley in a match (maybe the famous cell match with Taker?)

He really didn't have nuclear heat right after that. I know that is what WWE portrays now, but at that time period, it was still a couple months before he really became the evil character. I think it was more related to Austin than Hart. I won't deny that the screwjob played a part, but I think Mr McMahon would have been the villain he was even without the screwjob.

But I can admit I could be wrong.
 
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bullyballmm

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From what I know of the period (not much, I was like under 5 when it was happening and cbs watching the old stuff on the Network), didn't Austin attack McMahon first, when he was still doing his commentary shtick?
 

DualShock

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There is no way possible that the screwjob was a work. And me telling you that has nothing to do with being oversensitive. For it to be a work, Bret Hart, who had creative control, would have had to be willing to humiliate himself in his home country. Anybody even slightly familiar with Hart would know this was not a possibility. Hell, his senior citizen father would have beaten the shit out of him for even considering taking part.

For the screwjob to have been a work, you would have to question the integrity of both Bret Hart and the Undertaker, two men whose integrity in wrestling is quite respected. And the reason I mention Taker is because it is well known that he was the one who forced Vince McMahon to go to Hart's dressing room and apologize.

There was no motivation for Hart to go along with such a thing.
Undertaker is a good argument but this is one good argument against 50 other arguments why the Screwjob may have been a work.
I will try to stay on topic because I had to write an essay about it why most of it doesn't make sense but here are some points you have adressed it.

You say there was no motivation for Bret, well, most people don't know it but around the mid-1997 all the way to Survivor Series Bret became one of the most disliked wrestlers in Canada. Bret was for most fans a rolemodel, one of the most honest athletes, they loved Hogan, Hall, Nash, Savage but Bret was something else, he was one of the last wrestlers that represented love, passion, tradition in pro wrestling and reading online that Bret would leave like everybody else for more money was a slap in their face (especially because more Canadians were more WWE than WCW because it was a company from the south) so Bret received "You sold out chants" everywhere in Canada.
That was one of the reasons why Bret at the end of his WWE run wrestled mostly heels who insulted Canada or was involved in patriotic angles, to make fans cheer for him. Bret was only lucky to wrestle Shawn Michaels who was the biggest prick back then who humped and picked the nose with the canadian flag otherwise Bret would have the "Brock Lesnar WrestleMania XX" reactions live on PPV where you couldn't edit the chants. Bret would be even today known as the guy who sold out like every other wrestler but the Screwjob overshadowed it and made the fans like him again, so there was motivation.

About the other point, Bret had creative control, Vince was scared Bret would leave with the belt like Madusa, Bret said he would have no problem to lose the title to anybody except of Shawn even if it's Brooklyn Brawler, Bret said even if he loses the title to Shawn he would not do it in Canada...
The reason why I post this, there is something that makes no sense
You book the PPV venues in advance so it was known for months that Survivor Series will be in Canada. The last PPV before Survivor Series was Bad Blood that had HBK vs Undertaker that was not only the first HIAC match but it was also the #1 contender match for the WWE title at Survivor Series. There was no title defence that night because Bret was involved in a tag team match so it was obvious Bret wouod defend the title at Survivor Series so why make HBK the winner and #1 contender?
Why not make Taker win? Why not make Shawn win but without the #1 cont. stipulation? Why not make a #1 cont. that night between Shamrock and Vader for example with winner wrestling Bret at Series? Why not make Shawn win the title at the December PPV so he could still have his program with Austin at WrestleMania?

Of course there is a lot more that makes no sense.
 
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Jacob Fox

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Undertaker is a good argument but this is one good argument against 50 other arguments why the Screwjob may have been a work.
I will try to stay on topic because I had to write an essay about it why most of it doesn't make sense but here are some points you have adressed it.

I would be happy to hear those fifty arguments if they truly exist.


You say there was no motivation for Bret, well, most people don't know it but around the mid-1997 all the way to Survivor Series Bret became one of the most disliked wrestlers in Canada.

No, he wasn't. Go back and watch the Raws in 1997 in Canada and the ovations for Bret Hart rivaled any ovation that Hogan, the Rock or Austin ever got.



Bret was for most fans a rolemodel, one of the most honest athletes, they loved Hogan, Hall, Nash, Savage but Bret was something else, he was one of the last wrestlers that represented love, passion, tradition in pro wrestling and reading online that Bret would leave like everybody else for more money was a slap in their face (especially because more Canadians were more WWE than WCW because it was a company from the south) so Bret received "You sold out chants" everywhere in Canada.

Now you're just making stuff up. It was well known in 1997 that Bret Hart left the WWF because Vince McMahon could no longer afford his contract. It was publicly known that Hart even told Vince he would accept less money or deferred money to stay with WWF. It was well known at the time that it was Vince McMahon who encouraged Hart to approach WCW.


That was one of the reasons why Bret at the end of his WWE run wrestled mostly heels who insulted Canada or was involved in patriotic angles, to make fans cheer for him. Bret was only lucky to wrestle Shawn Michaels who was the biggest prick back then who humped and picked the nose with the canadian flag otherwise Bret would have the "Brock Lesnar WrestleMania XX" reactions live on PPV where you couldn't edit the chants. Bret would be even today known as the guy who sold out like every other wrestler but the Screwjob overshadowed it and made the fans like him again, so there was motivation.

None of this is remotely true. The main guys Hart wrestled in the months leading up to his him leaving were Americans, both heels and faces.

About the other point, Bret had creative control, Vince was scared Bret would leave with the belt like Madusa
,

People say that but he had no reason to believe this. It was very well known that after the Madusa incident that Turner Broadcasting forbade Bischoff from ever showing a WWF title on television ever again. Even if this was not the case, Vince knew Hart long enough to know he was a man of integrity.

Bret said he would have no problem to lose the title to anybody except of Shawn even if it's Brooklyn Brawler, Bret said even if he loses the title to Shawn he would not do it in Canada...

You are merging information together. Bret Hart was willing to drop the belt to Michaels as long as it was not in Canada. He likely would have dropped it to someone he respected, such as the Undertaker, in Canada. His main problem was Michaels in Canada.

Hart offered to lose the belt to anyone else on Raw the day after Survivor Series. When Vince refused, Hart offered to surrender the belt on Raw and be given a chance to apologize to the American fans for being a heel.


The reason why I post this, there is something that makes no sense
You book the PPV venues in advance so it was known for months that Survivor Series will be in Canada. The last PPV before Survivor Series was Bad Blood that had HBK vs Undertaker that was not only the first HIAC match but it was also the #1 contender match for the WWE title at Survivor Series. There was no title defence that night because Bret was involved in a tag team match so it was obvious Bret wouod defend the title at Survivor Series so why make HBK the winner and #1 contender?

Undertaker was not made number one contender because his championship run resulted in low PPV buy rates and lagging sales. It made more sense to follow with the Kane/Undertaker feud than to put Taker back in the title picture. Simple as that. Taker was always more known as a wrestler who took one other opponents that seemed unbeatable more than someone who should always be in the title picture.

Furthermore, Hart vs HBK was one of the biggest feuds of all time. It also encompassed the entire 1997 of WWF. No other match as the main event would have made sense.

You cannot assume simply because HBK won that match the Screwjob was a work. That is not just a leap in logic, it's a Schwinn bicycle being able to jump over the grand canyon leap of logic.


Of course there is a lot more that makes no sense.

No, there really isn't.

Do you know the best argument for the moon landing being real? The fact is that there were 400,000 NASA employees involved in the Apollo program. The USSR tracked the Apollo missions. In the 50 years since, not one person has come forward from the program and revealed it was fake.

Watergate involved less than 100 people and it took two months before people started talking. To this day, not a single person involved in the Screwjob have come forward to say it was a work. And you know what, plenty of people have motivation too. Hell, when Earl Hebner got fired, if the screwjob was a work, the first thing he would have done when he came to TNA would be to reveal it. But no one ever has.[/QUOTE]
 
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Jacob Fox

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From what I know of the period (not much, I was like under 5 when it was happening and cbs watching the old stuff on the Network), didn't Austin attack McMahon first, when he was still doing his commentary shtick?

Yes. and in fact he attacked McMahon when Vince was actually being a nice and caring person to him.
 
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