Vince: Fans Didnt Buy The Attractions of SummerSlam 13

[Wrestling with Shadows]

I personally don't find Cena stale stale, I'm glad he comes back; half the time he's the reason I watch Pay-Per-Views just because I believe he is the best wrestler on any given Pay-Per-View night, said numerous times; he rarely has bad matches and his psychology in the ring is tip top but this over coming the injury angle is frustrating as I wanted Sandow to win because he's a good worker and probably the best guy on the mic I've seen on Smackdown (say Dolph Ziggler etc).

He draws, he'll draw as a heel but turning him leaves WWE without a Number 1 face which is the issue, could Sheamus be the number one face? Of course not because the smarks shit on him but he can, I think a lot of casuals probably buy into Sheamus - he's just a pasty John Cena. Personally I would love to see a Heel Cena but it won't happen and I don't think it needs too.

Cena sells the beatdowns and comebacks far too well, plus too many children look up to him, hell Cena turning heel might backfire on WWE and all the kids turn off because their hero has left them.

Too much rides on the back of John Cena being the good guy.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

Even if we never heard anything about his sexual preference, I'd still say they've spent more time on commentary planting seeds Titus is the ass kicker and power of the tandem. Hell Titus got the job because Dave vouched for him and said this guy can be special.

I also think comparing Darren just off physique alone to a Punk or Bryan is a small joke since he's in better shape than either guy. Heck Rey is better built than either guy just standing alongside them to go with more legitimacy. Punk and Bryan aren't Ohno bad shape wise, but I hate when people bring up Benoit or Eddie for example because those two were worlds more defined than them, and in the case of Eddie, he didn't even whoop Brock's ass, he got his ass kicked until the former nfl player and WCW champion jumped the barrier and speared the fuck out of Brock

The difference between Benoit/Eddie & Punk/Bryan is drugs. Knocking a guy for his physique, when they cant take the steroids, and have been spending 200+ days a year on the road for the last decade trying to make a name for themselves, when the only real difference is the drugs shows how little you pay attention. I would have assumed a Dragonball fan can suspend disbelief, since every series has an ass kicking child.

And on your point of Eddie/Brock. That ending worked with Eddies gimmick, he lied, cheated, and stole his way to the title.

 

[SAIYANS]

The difference between Eddie and Benoit compared to Bryan and Punk is physique and legitimacy. They had the better physiques, no matter how you slice it.


There are plenty of guys who've never failed a wellness test that look and stay in better shape than Bryan or Punk. And as far as legitimacy, they called Benoit a rabid wolverine from basically the moment he started being featured. He was an animal, a technical assassin, viscous, and destroyed guys before making them tap. Even with Eddie, he was a Guerrero, a warrior, a technical specialist who they always said had been in the ring since he was a toddler with legends instructing him, and then they added the lie, cheat, and steal. Benoit and Eddie had far more credibility in that ring as ass kickers than Punk or Bryan.


Punks a guy with a 400 day reign and a 6x world champ. The thing is who has punk actually beat convincingly? He's never beat Cena clean even as a face dropping pipe bombs. He got his ass handed to him along with all of the SES by Rey singlehandedly. Big Show handed him his ass. Taker squashed his ass in 8minutes in a hiac with entrances. Rock beat him convincingly, hell Rock survived a run in, and in general when they were on screen. Punk looked like a guy who belonged in the front row drinking a beer and eating nachos. Randy destroyed him. He wasn't truly played up as Trips equal. And let's be real here, the guy for months on ended struggled with the likes of Kofi, his strikes being shook off jobber fodder, and you expect to sell his lil pudgy ass whose never dominated anyone to be able to hurt Brock Lesnar!!! The same Brock Lesnar that destroyed Triple H, snapped Shawn's arm like a twig, and reduced Cena to a pulp who had to resort to using a chain after returning from UFC? Fuck out of here.


Bryan went from a guy who in his career, lets be real here, made NXT and then went to nexus to be fired. He returned hot, has a little feud with Miz before winning mitb. His mitb run was a joke, his same fans and loyalists didnt even support the guy even when he won the world title. He got squashed in 18seconds for the World Heavyweight Title at WrestleMania, that's Chavo jobber shit. From there a yes movement started, but it's just a chant like what, it's not Hulkamania or a chainggang, animals unleashed, 619 type movement where everything he does sells and draws. But I digress, he's teamed with Kane and called the weakest link, loses the titles, and does some random shield ass kicking with even numbers on sd. Then you expect to sell him, a guy who has been called the weak link, never even had great showings for a prolonged period as a singles guy where he's billed as a master technician or guy who can kick your ass and break you down in a ring, to Bill him against John Cena at the second biggest ppv of the year? And to cherry on top it, you have Cena hand pick him after a reality show comes out and shows then both dating the Bella Twins and him not even being strong enough to chop a freaking log?


By every means, Punk and Bryan didnt fit their billing. It would have been fine at Battleground. But at SummerSlam its bs to try and tell people in Hollywood, at Staples Center, where you've rolled out a red carpet, have Access Hollywood there, and countless celebs these are the guys who can kick the ass of Jobn Cena and Brock Lesnar. That's not something you buy into on the second biggest stage there is. A guy like Trips, Show, Kane, RVD fighting Brock sure. A triple threat at best with Punk and Bryan against Cena where its possible Cena can lose without being pinned as the midgets beat one another sure. You can't say its viable to suspend your disbelief when Punk and Bryan are fodder to real elites every time in their career and lacked momentum, you just can't.

 

[Deezy]

Why did someone just compare a cartoon to wrestling? Are Daniel Bryan and CM Punk supposed to reach Super Saiyan levels? This isn't Puroresu.

 

[Tapout]

Sometimes peoples fascination on who can kick who's ass is so fantasy that's it's hilarious. Because the big guy ALWAYS wins. I've seen a lot of fights, real fights on the street, at school, and around and it's very rare that "Mr. Muscle" wins. They are always the ones getting beat by the smaller guys. The only one I can understand is Lesnar, because he is a credible, trained fighter. Cena is just pounds of muscle. Its easy to imagine that someone the size of Bryan or Punk can beat him. And the way Bryan beat him even fits it. He knocked him the hell out with a knee. Doesn't matter how big or defined you are, you're going to get knocked the fuck out when someone drives their knee into your face. By this "Bigger is better" logic, Kane, Big Show, Great Khali, Big E Langston, Nathan Jones, and the like would be MEGA STARS. Because no one can kick their ass realistically, so that means they just win over everyone, right?

 

[Wrestling with Shadows]

^ Weak logic to take Mr Muscle vs Swarny guy logic when you look at real life and typical situations, Mr Muscle is usually more brawn than brains and little dweeby guy has black belt in said martial art, he's also quicker and probably is gonna be first to punch. Wrestling is a different approach entirely.

It's fantasy for a start but to a kid it's real; kids look up to the biggest guys just like they look up to their parent and that's because of the example they set over the weeks and months, years even. This is where WWE is fucking up, sure the guys don't look credible but WWE could build that up.

Lemme do some fantasy/e-fed booking logic I would do if I wanted to build up say heel Big Show vs Face Daniel Bryan, I would hype up the fact Big Show is a dominate monster but through Daniel Bryan's side I would build up his technical offense and his ability to chop big guys down to size (have him beat bigger guys on the roster leading up to show) then in the match, I'd do it where Show dominates Bryan but Bryan is like a rabid dog and slowly wears down this massive Giant's legs till he's down on the ground for the YES! Lock or a leg submission move (which would also be built up).

WWE isn't booking like that at the moment but the issue most peopel have is the guys just don't look like they can handle themselves, partly because of genetics and partly because of bad booking.

 

[SAIYANS]

I would have has no issue at a b ppv or even if they just invested more in Bryan. He didn't beat a clock, didn't win a tourney, and his one on one matches weren't of the make him legit variety. He should've been beating guys ass from the time they split and I don't mean in 6 man tag after a hot tag. Punks pretty much who and what he is now, and you can argue so is Bryan unless they go the sandow route and build legitimacy. Make some hype videos, show some domination, etc.

 

[SAIYANS]

Sometimes peoples fascination on who can kick who's ass is so fantasy that's it's hilarious. Because the big guy ALWAYS wins. I've seen a lot of fights, real fights on the street, at school, and around and it's very rare that "Mr. Muscle" wins. They are always the ones getting beat by the smaller guys. The only one I can understand is Lesnar, because he is a credible, trained fighter. Cena is just pounds of muscle. Its easy to imagine that someone the size of Bryan or Punk can beat him. And the way Bryan beat him even fits it. He knocked him the hell out with a knee. Doesn't matter how big or defined you are, you're going to get knocked the fuck out when someone drives their knee into your face. By this "Bigger is better" logic, Kane, Big Show, Great Khali, Big E Langston, Nathan Jones, and the like would be MEGA STARS. Because no one can kick their ass realistically, so that means they just win over everyone, right?

You want to see little beat big? Check Rey. He's been built as the ultimate under dog his wwe career because they gradually had him move from CW guys and face and beat heavyweights. They went from there and then moved on to him being a world champ who can legit beat anyone on the roster clean. A guy who could squash Punk and a stable by his damn self. That's legitimacy thru booking and portrayal. Punk and Bryan don't have that. Little guys like Rey, Eddie, Benoit, and Michaels do because they accumulated it over time and were talked up as bug match players (they also simply look better)

 

[Keith]

You want to see little beat big? Check Rey. He's been built as the ultimate under dog his wwe career because they gradually had him move from CW guys and face and beat heavyweights. They went from there and then moved on to him being a world champ who can legit beat anyone on the roster clean. A guy who could squash Punk and a stable by his damn self. That's legitimacy thru booking and portrayal. Punk and Bryan don't have that. Little guys like Rey, Eddie, Benoit, and Michaels do because they accumulated it over time and were talked up as bug match players (they also simply look better)

The only thing I would question you on is that at least during his world title reign WWE treated Rey like a jobber. Some would say that he was a big draw, but never a sucess as world champion due to booking.

I think we are going a little to the other extreme with Punk and Bryan now, they are still draws just not the mega draws which WWE hoped for. Bryan could still become that if WWE don't mess up his current storyline. Because of their versality and williness to put guys over WWE still need them.

 

[SAIYANS]

But thing is Rey's first reign was like Christians a handout. I mean he also got beat by guys bigger than him, it was true his whole wwe start when he first started moving to heavyweights. Khali, show, Brock, Cena etc all man handled him. They never tried to act like he could go from struggling to beat a Jamie noble one day to laying out Taker the next, but it's what they tried to sell with Brock and Punk. Rey had natural progression as a heavyweight, got his ass kicked, got better, started sleighing giants eventually ... Became ultimate under dog. He was always a Hispanic draw and mask mover because back then we was on broadcast tv and they tried many different people to replicate his demographic like the Colons and Melina when he swapped brands. Rey was a SD staple tho like Taker, Dave, and edge.

My my whole point is though, rey who is or was in better looking shape and with many more years on national tv in two other major companies still went about gaining his legitimacy right to beat big guys. Punk before the Brock match spent his 400 days struggling to beat Kofi, having his strikes shrugged off by midcarders and never having had a strong showing vs legit guys. Bryan as I detailed was the same. They just leaped them into the billing and it flopped, and they should've known better. I mean punk right now beating Brock before he left for UFC is a hard sell if you remember how he destroyed hulk, rey, Cena, the Hardys and so on; let alone post UFC. Bryan is the guy who couldn't last 18secs in a world tittle match and the weak link who lost hell no the titles, yet he is surden credible because Cena picked him to face him? That rubber me and some people here wrong, casuals appRently, and Vince just said yeah we screwed up there.

 

[Chris]

[MENTION=486]SAIYANS[/MENTION] I agree Punk looks weak as hell, but Bryan actually looks pretty rocked up. That's the only point I'm disagreeing with here, I can actually take Bryan beating everyone seriously (maybe not Brock, but still probably more so than Punk). He's short but he's not near as small as he used to be.

 

[SAIYANS]

The only thing I would question you on is that at least during his world title reign WWE treated Rey like a jobber. Some would say that he was a big draw, but never a sucess as world champion due to booking.

I think we are going a little to the other extreme with Punk and Bryan now, they are still draws just not the mega draws which WWE hoped for. Bryan could still become that if WWE don't mess up his current storyline. Because of their versality and williness to put guys over WWE still need them.

Oh I think they can save or salvage Bryan, not punk. He's a 6x champ and they exhausted options. With Bryan it's just like with a sandow. Move him away from the picture, let him crime legit: don't randomly have him beating the Wyatt Family. Lead up to it, make him work for it, and then destroy Eric down the line. Then still keep him away and build momentum at tLC, the rumble and then the chamber. I'm not saying he should headline mania, he shouldn't, he's not ready, but come Sslam 14 he should be if you let him get enough wins vs guys that are convincing and talk him up. He can be saved somewhat compared to guys like Del Rio, Dolph and Punk who've gotten reigns, bodyguards, managers, etc over and over. He won't be a Cena or Dave player, but he can be an Orton or Edge level guy who if done right can main event and sell out SD brand tapings without Cena around and close out plenty of b ppvs.

 

[SAIYANS]

@SAIYANS I agree Punk looks weak as hell, but Bryan actually looks pretty rocked up. That's the only point I'm disagreeing with here, I can actually take Bryan beating everyone seriously (maybe not Brock, but still probably more so than Punk). He's short but he's not near as small as he used to be.

Yeah he's improved his physique massively. I just think he needs to have the hype machine talk him up And channel his inner Finlay in a ring. Work up the ladder rung by rung beating guys convincingly with his wrestling skill and tenacity. He shows in flashes this intensity but they waited too late to plug him how they did for Sslam. If it would've been a triple threat, I think he would've been better off even despite how the match came out because then there's always the option of he doesn't have to be Cenas equal or better to win. They just did it wrong, they need to build an aura or mystique behind the guy.

 

[Chris]

Yeah he's improved his physique massively. I just think he needs to have the hype machine talk him up And channel his inner Finlay in a ring. Work up the ladder rung by rung beating guys convincingly with his wrestling skill and tenacity. He shows in flashes this intensity but they waited too late to plug him how they did for Sslam. If it would've been a triple threat, I think he would've been better off even despite how the match came out because then there's always the option of he doesn't have to be Cenas equal or better to win. They just did it wrong, they need to build an aura or mystique behind the guy.

They need to fucking play on the fact that he beat Cena clean more and that's a star right there. Really wish their feud could have been more than just one match.

 

[SAIYANS]

I wouldn't have minded a triple threat with O Punk. He would look better beating someone and then them thinning the feud out. Hell they could've massively written Cena out by simply letting them finish him in some fashion and one of them pick the bones. Cena leaves to heal for 2 months, you get a three way feud after the cash in, then you get whoever loses in the 3 way out the feud and it be Punk/Orton vs Bryan. Then let Cena return with his rematch clause and challenge Bryan. At least then he would've had months of proving he wasn't a fluke. Hell he could go over if they wanted to play up Cena wasn't fully healed. The whole angle was blah, the match was great, but the lead in and follow thru was bad.