The state of the (western) world

[Chris]

Fine. Try having a country without taxes. See how long you live before people resort to anarchy.

I've seen nothing about him saying eliminate taxes, he just wants equal tax for everyone.

 

[Tapout]

I've seen nothing about him saying eliminate taxes, he just wants equal tax for everyone.

Saying that government should not dictate what people do with their money is basically the same as saying that the government shouldn't tax because taxation is dictating what people should do with their money.

 

[Chris]

Saying that government should not dictate what people do with their money is basically the same as saying that the government shouldn't tax because taxation is dictating what people should do with their money.

But if you'd read his previous arguments instead of focusing on that one statement which is "basically the same thing" he even said in his first post that the answer to "Should there be a sliding scale for taxes?" is maybe, it would just be too hard to judge and that income doesn't represent the actual money you have available.

I don't have a big opinion in all this, leaning more towards you and BGA, but don't act like MS isn't putting up a good argument.

 

[Rated R Superstar]

Saying that government should not dictate what people do with their money is basically the same as saying that the government shouldn't tax because taxation is dictating what people should do with their money.

Do you know what taxes go towards? Have you ever paid taxes?(I think you're only 17 correct? Serious question btw) It's not fun. And why the fuck should I be taxed more because I make more than my co-workers(I do actually, and I do get taxed a hefty amount)? It's ridiculous! I work hard for my money, I should be able to enjoy it shouldn't I? I'm not saying stop taxes, because from my understanding, these taxes pay for all the necessary services such as Police Services, Fire Services, any kind of emergency service really. Of course I'll gladly pay for that! But I shouldn't be charged more than everybody else just because I make more money.

 

[Ozymandias]

Do you know what taxes go towards? Have you ever paid taxes?(I think you're only 17 correct? Serious question btw) It's not fun. And why the fuck should I be taxed more because I make more than my co-workers(I do actually, and I do get taxed a hefty amount)? It's ridiculous! I work hard for my money, I should be able to enjoy it shouldn't I? I'm not saying stop taxes, because from my understanding, these taxes pay for all the necessary services such as Police Services, Fire Services, any kind of emergency service really. Of course I'll gladly pay for that! But I shouldn't be charged more than everybody else just because I make more money.

So, just so I'm clear, you're suggesting your co-workers don't work as hard as you?

 

[monkeystyle]

I prefer not to argue with ignoramuses that don't accept other people's views because they're too ignorant to see any other ones but their own.

Ad hominem attacks now. You're stepping up.

But just so that this has a point let me get this straight. I am an ignoramus because I don't accept your views?

I see exactly what you are trying to convey and I think that you are wrong. I have backed up my arguments every single time and have not once resorted to name calling.

I think perhaps you might want to reconsider your last statement while looking in a mirror.

The parents comparison is a strange one to make, I didn't say or suggest that, what I said is that society should run so that people do not fall into poverty. No one is asking for the state to feed and clothes us, but it should be there to support us when - for whatever reason - we are not able to do that anymore.

I generally disagree. If it is to be a temporary solution then absolutely there should be a well functioning system that can help a person in need for a few months while they get back on their feet. No more than that though. Anything beyond that should indeed be covered by families, insurance plans or charities.

Not everyone wants to work, not everyone wants to pay their taxes. You okay with that? They choose ignorance and reliance and welfare, are you okay with that? Because you don't get to dictate how others should live their lives

If someone wants to not work, go ahead. Just don't expect anything out of life. You get what you put in, right?

Same with people on welfare. I don't like it but the only people they are hurting is themselves. One of my old roommates was on welfare not long ago. You know how much that guy brought in a month? Something like $550. His rent is $475. They want to stay on welfare? Rock on, it's your idiocy.

Do you not think that people who are on the bottom rung of employment, or indeed, are unemployed, have the same external responsibilities? And they have no money to fall back on. They require the state, they cant afford to put more in, even though they work hard, so maybe your friend who's on 250k might be happy to pay a little more considering people are having the same problem as him who HAVE to rely on the state to help them out.

They do and truth be told this is where I have problems with my view point and it's the feeling that always causes me to re-evaluate when presented with new perspectives.

Unfortunately I believe that we are in a Catch-22. Yes they do indeed deserve something. It is unfortunate that things like medical expenses can become out of control and could bankrupt a family. However, I also don't believe that we have the right to tell anyone to do with their money. This is why I am an advocate for charitable donations. It really bridges the gap between what the state can and should provide and individuals who want to help out their fellow man.

 

[Rated R Superstar]

So, just so I'm clear, you're suggesting your co-workers don't work as hard as you?

I'm reading through my post and trying to see where I may have suggested that. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm just saying I shouldn't be taxed more than them.

 

[Rated R Superstar]

I prefer not to argue with ignoramuses that don't accept other people's views because they're too ignorant to see any other ones but their own.

 

[Ozymandias]

D'you what monkeystyle, I might disagree with you on almost everything you've said, but I like you. You argue your point well. I disagree with all of it, but at least you know what you're talking about.

It's funny cause I think we are almost the classic example of the structure/society vs agency/individual debate and therefore we will never agree.

How do you normally vote, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Ozymandias]

I'm reading through my post and trying to see where I may have suggested that. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm just saying I shouldn't be taxed more than them.

Got it from this;

And why the fuck should I be taxed more because I make more than my co-workers(I do actually, and I do get taxed a hefty amount)? It's ridiculous! I work hard for my money, I should be able to enjoy it shouldn't I?

RRS you know I like you buddy, so I'm not seeking to misquote you, but based on the above I think it was a legitimate question

 

[Rated R Superstar]

Got it from this;



RRS you know I like you buddy, so I'm not seeking to misquote you, but based on the above I think it was a legitimate question

To be honest most of them are lazy pricks. But I wasn't suggesting they don't work hard. I was saying that I shouldn't be taxed more because I was making more than everybody else. That doesn't seem fair to me when I do the same amount(and yes, sometimes more) of work as everybody else I get taxed more because I make more than they do.

 

[Rated R Superstar]

D'you what monkeystyle, I might disagree with you on almost everything you've said, but I like you. You argue your point well. I disagree with all of it, but at least you know what you're talking about.

It's funny cause I think we are almost the classic example of the structure/society vs agency/individual debate and therefore we will never agree.

How do you normally vote, if you don't mind me asking?

If he's smart he doesn't. All of the leaders in our government are idiots. WE ON THE SAME TEAM YO!

 

[Ozymandias]

I just think, as long as you're getting paid, and you're getting paid fairly (i.e. a wage that matches your job) then you should pay a level of tax which matches that and which will contribute towards your respective society.

I think those who have a decent salary, lets for for example 50,000 British pounds, should pay a higher level of income tax than me who pays less that 18,000. And in turn I should pay more than those who earn under 12,000. Just seems fair to me.

 

[monkeystyle]

D'you what monkeystyle, I might disagree with you on almost everything you've said, but I like you. You argue your point well. I disagree with all of it, but at least you know what you're talking about.

It's funny cause I think we are almost the classic example of the structure/society vs agency/individual debate and therefore we will never agree.

How do you normally vote, if you don't mind me asking?

Thank you. I appreciate the way you present your opinions as well. I like that we can actually have a discussion about this without getting all crazy emotional.

And the beauty part is that we don't have to agree. What we should be doing though is trying to work towards a middle ground that works for everybody. Because it's not about winning or being "right" it's about balance.

As to how I vote, it varies. I prefer to look at the individuals who are competing in my local riding and choose whom I think is going to be the best representative for us. I don't really care if it is a Liberal, Conservative, New Democrat or the fucking Natural Law party. Ideas are what I vote for, not party ideology.

If he's smart he doesn't. All of the leaders in our government are idiots. WE ON THE SAME TEAM YO!

I guess I was only smart in the last election

My wallet got stolen like, a week before the last election day and because I'm that kind of idiot who carried all his ID in one place I couldn't vote.

But I generally agree. I dislike politicians because they are all trying so hard to win the argument that they aren't interested in doing what is best. Drives me mad.

 

[monkeystyle]

I just think, as long as you're getting paid, and you're getting paid fairly (i.e. a wage that matches your job) then you should pay a level of tax which matches that and which will contribute towards your respective society.

I think those who have a decent salary, lets for for example 50,000 British pounds, should pay a higher level of income tax than me who pays less that 18,000. And in turn I should pay more than those who earn under 12,000. Just seems fair to me.

That's definitely the way it works in Canada. I got a pretty significant promotion and raise last year and I definitely noticed that I got nailed harder for taxes.

According to the Canada Revenue website, my taxes went up 7% in the new bracket.