The Political Thread

[Grimoire Lenin]

I don't entirely agree with this. Even if the South won, there are many reasons slavery would have eventually died out, but for men and women in bondage, they simply shouldn't have had to wait that long. It's honestly a shame the issue was kicked down the road until it hit Lincolns doorsteps and a civil war.

Strongly disagree, as I stated, Industrialization would have simply been the new age for Slavery.

 

[Smart Marx]

I actually believe in states rights, but the state doesn't override the ideals of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. This country didn't fully get it right on that issue for the vast majority of our history, but the point remains the idea of slavery was never a states rights issue in my opinion, At least it shouldn't be.

 

[Dakstang]

Sorry, I need to get out of this thread. I cannot get into this discussion.

 

[Chris]

A big factor in this little hypothetical you two are discussing is if thr confederacy would have managed to even be a successful country bc I don't think so....and I'm not sure what that means would happen either but I also imagine it would have an effect on the slavery dying out or not that you're discussing rn

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

I actually believe in states rights, but the state doesn't override the ideals of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. This country didn't fully get it right on that issue for the vast majority of our history, but the point remains the idea of slavery was never a states rights issue in my opinion, At least it shouldn't be.

States have certain autonomous guarantees, like any Federated state like Germany or Britain, but they do not override the Federal Government, so we agree there.

 

[Chris]

Basically there's so many other variables involved that I can't even wrap my head around trying tonpredict whether it would die out naturally or not but that's me, not telling yall not to

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

A big factor in this little hypothetical you two are discussing is if thr confederacy would have managed to even be a successful country bc I don't think so....and I'm not sure what that means would happen either but I also imagine it would have an effect on the slavery dying out or not that you're discussing rn

Oh my hypothetical scenario was if the South never seceded and had certain guarantees on Slavery rights.

 

[Smart Marx]

Strongly disagree, as I stated, Industrialization would have simply been the new age for Slavery.

There are some good videos on this if I come across again I'll inbox to you.

Especially once northern industry moved south and replaced the dependency on crops and the cotton gin.

 

[Chris]

Oh my hypothetical scenario was if the South never seceded and had certain guarantees on Slavery rights.

Oh well why would you go off that lol wasn't your point that they argued it would die out naturally if we didn't go to war? So clearly their timeline is post secession and yours should be too

 

[Rosie]

On the note of the US Civil War.


Also I am thankful for my Canadian education system in History classes since at least in terms of our own history, we cover pre-Confederation, Confederation, our expansion and the violence out in Manitoba as Louis Riel led Metis rebellions out of fear of Canadian influence ruining their culture. We tried to cover his Legacy, both his detractors and those who see him as a hero for standing up for the rights of an oppressed group. Then we cover the World Wars with the Roaring 20's and Great Depression, then we continue on as far as the semester would take us. It isn't perfect, but at least as I saw it get to High school and I took Canadian history, we sort of looked at both sides of Canadian history, both our "moments of pride," such as us fighting in the World Wars and holding our own despite being a smaller country (including creating a strategy in WW1 to be effective in Trench Warfare, creeping barrage), and darker moments such as the internment of Japanese Canadians, the narrative of oppression of the Aboriginal population, Sir John A's Pacific Scandal, and more. It was... alright-

OH EXCEPT THE FACT THEY SIMPLY GLOSS OVER STUFF LIKE THE RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL SYSTEM! I know the last one only closed in the 90's, so by the time I went to school it was only just recently "history" but it is hard to gloss over... especially with its prevalence for over a century and how it still comes in effect today. It took until me going to University and PAYING for my education to really get details about it aside from "They tried to force them to change their culture in these schools." Which is still bad, but then I have to pay to find out... "Oh... THERE WAS PHYSICAL AND SEXUAL ABUSE TOO AND HOW MANY OF THEM DIED OR WENT 'MISSING!?' WHAT THE FUUU-"

Then again, we at least did go over the internment of Japanese Canadians (as mentioned before), and general racism toward Asians, especially out west, so I guess that is a bit of a start... A BIT! As we expanded and many Chinese immigrants were given an ungodly tax for moving, were given all the dangerous jobs building the railroad and 4,000 of them died in the construction.

Like I can admit the short-comings of the Canadian education system, but hearing stories in the US like teachers refusing to teach actual "Science," this blind Patriotism at times, or the mentioned issues around the South's telling of the "Civil War," it is just a complete mind-fuck from a Canadian looking at it.

 

[Chris]

It's still hard to imagine that way too tho cause I just can't see a world where abolitionists would have stood for it long enough for it to die out, each generation of then would be way more vocal as they were more disgusted by it idk I'm not good with hypotheticals in general lmao

 

[Smart Marx]

Oversimplified is fucking brilliant.

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

Oh well why would you go off that lol wasn't your point that they argued it would die out naturally if we didn't go to war? So clearly their timeline is post secession and yours should be too

Nah, I frame as "going to war" being both secession and the subsequent bombing of Fort Sumter.

Abolitionists gave the idea of Slavery dying out a lot of thought in internal debates, but it could be argued if the South Industrialized, they would have already had a ready-to-go blue-collar class of laborers ready to work in factories rather than the dingy fields of Mississippi and Georgia.

As soon as secession happened, the Confederacy was fucking doomed to die a horrible death simply because it didn't maintain the kind of strong Federal government that has somehow managed to keep the Union going, because you need a strong central government to actually... well, maintain the national upkeep of places like Texas and California nowadays.

 

[Smart Marx]

This guy is great if you want to see what lost causers believe and why they're wrong. He uses actual YouTube comments for his rebuttals.

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

This guy is great if you want to see what lost causers believe and why they're wrong. He uses actual YouTube comments for his rebuttals.

MY MAN BRANDON WITH THE ATUN-SHEI FILMS PLUG