The Political Thread

[Chris]

How hot of a take even is that lol I thought Grant was well liked mostly (even coming from my southern education)

 

[Smart Marx]

TaXeS aNd TaRiFfS! ShErMaN's A wAr CrImInAl! GrAnT's A lOoNeY dRuNk BuTcHeR!

You gotta love that tariff they blame they wasn't passed until the successions and only passed because their senators lost their vote.

Not to mention the North, specifically New York harbor paid the vast majority of the revenue and tariffs that funded the country.

 

[Chris]

Oh I guess the "one of the best ever" part could be a hot take

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

You gotta love that tariff they blame they wasn't passed until the successions and only passed because their senators lost their vote.

Not to mention the North, specifically New York harbor paid the vast majority of the revenue and tariffs that funded the country.

You, my man, you fucking get it.

 

[Chris]

You gotta love that tariff they blame they wasn't passed until the successions and only passed because their senators lost their vote. Not to mention the North, specifically New York harbor paid the vast majority of the revenue and tariffs that funded the country.

I didn't learn about any of these details until college US history

 

[Smart Marx]

Also, hot take, but:

Not only was Ulysses S. Grant the best General of the Civil War era by a long shot, he's one of the best Presidents of the United States ever.

History was not kind to Grant. Man nearly got reconstruction which died when he left office. A seriously underrated general and POTUS.

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

How hot of a take even is that lol I thought Grant was well liked mostly (even coming from my southern education)

Lost Causers fucking hate Grant because he was apparently "uncivilized" compared to Robert E. Lee, despite the fact that Grant kicked the shit out of Lee's forces every time they went up against one another, and Grant was also responsible for the masterclass of a military campaign in Vicksburg, which was the defining moment that made it so the South could never win.

Sure, Gettysburg was important as far as morale goes for the North, but Vicksburg was arguably a more strategically important victory.

 

[Chris]

Lost Causers fucking hate Grant because he was apparently "uncivilized" compared to Robert E. Lee, despite the fact that Grant kicked the shit out of Lee's forces every time they went up against one another, and Grant was also responsible for the masterclass of a military campaign in Vicksburg, which was the defining moment that made it so the South could never win. Sure, Gettysburg was important as far as morale goes for the North, but Vicksburg was arguably a more strategically important victory.

Oh yeah I guess I heard all this, I've never debated with "lost causers" myself lol the ones I'm mainly talking about don't actually know any details to even try, they just scream "states rights" on cue

 

[Chris]

I actually shudder to think about how butchered the civil rights movement would have been if we actually covered it more in school (too recent, we very rarely finished WWII before the school year ended in history), I remember MLK being severely discredited tho, kind of one of those "well we have to talk about him cause they made him a holiday" shit

 

[Chris]

Or like "all he did was make one speech and he gets a day?" Broooooo

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

Oh yeah I guess I heard all this, I've never debated with "lost causers" myself lol the ones I'm mainly talking about don't actually know any details to even try, they just scream "states rights" on cue

States Rights is their only real talking point tbh.

They even try to debate the idea of Slavery finally dying out within a few decades if the South never succeeded, but the issue with that is this:

The Cotton Gin made it so the economy of the South was so lucratively dependent on Cotton that slaves still would have stuck around during the industrialization of places like New Orleans, Atlanta, Dallas, and San Antonio. First off, they're slaves, you don't have to pay them, and industrialization would have actually made them an even cheaper to house than in Antebellum Southern days.

Slavery was simply never going to go away.

 

[Smart Marx]

They overtalk him being a drunk and a lot of historians for many years considered him to be a reckless general who put his men at harm's way.

My favorite though is Lincoln didn't give af and even supplied him with more booze when he won important campaigns.

Lincoln also ordered the previous commanding generals to use more men because they outnumbered the rebels.

You call Lincoln a butcher, but it was smart strategy when the other side simply couldn't recoup the losses of men and supplies.

 

[Dakstang]

Lost Causers fucking hate Grant because he was apparently "uncivilized" compared to Robert E. Lee, despite the fact that Grant kicked the shit out of Lee's forces every time they went up against one another, and Grant was also responsible for the masterclass of a military campaign in Vicksburg, which was the defining moment that made it so the South could never win.

Sure, Gettysburg was important as far as morale goes for the North, but Vicksburg was arguably a more strategically important victory.

Well it didn't help that they were outnumbered, out gunned, and nearly starving.

But sure.

 

[Smart Marx]

Slavery was simply never going to go away.

I don't entirely agree with this. Even if the South won, there are many reasons slavery would have eventually died out, but for men and women in bondage, they simply shouldn't have had to wait that long. It's honestly a shame the issue was kicked down the road until it hit Lincolns doorsteps and a civil war.

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

They overtalk him being a drunk and a lot of historians for many years considered him to be a reckless general who put his men at harm's way.

My favorite though is Lincoln didn't give af and even supplied him with more booze when he won important campaigns.

Lincoln also ordered the previous commanding generals to use more men because they outnumbered the rebels.

You call Lincoln a butcher, but it was smart strategy when the other side simply couldn't recoup the losses of men and supplies.

Oh my favorite is them complaining about Lincoln suspending Habeas Corpus... which he was, very definitely, legally entitled to do, even if it was stretching the legal abilities of the Presidency at the time. Secondly, he only did so along rail-lines so Congress could literally convene at Washington. When he actually suspended Habeas Corpus for the entire country, he had full congressional approval in doing so, but Lost Causers like to miss that last point.