The Dark Knight Rises

[The Hoov]

I liked Burton's but I have to give the edge to the Nolan ones because his villains have been so much more interesting and, to me, they are the most captivating ingredient to a Batman film. Sure, their backstories may have been explored more in Burton's (like The Joker) but do we honestly care? Jack Nicholson was a wonderful Joker but damn did Heath Ledger blow his out of the water. Bane is also a very interesting character. He was just so friggin' cool, honestly. And Scarecrow was a great villain. Cillian Murphy is an excellent actor. I could see somebody possibly doing a Robin/Nightwing movie with Joseph Gordon-Levitt but not Nolan.

And, as far as the JLA movie, they shouldn't count their chickens before they hatch. Man of Steel hasn't came out yet and, while I love everything Zack Snyder does, Superman movies haven't really had the best track record. Also, they should leave Ryan Reynolds in the Green Lantern role IMO and not re-cast it.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

Wait, Tommy is Dick Grayson? I am waiting a few weeks for the crowds to die down to see this, I could care less about spoilers.

Having a good backstory for a villain is vital, look at how X-Men was done, you only got 2 origin stories in the entire first film, Magneto & Rogue, and because of the backstory there was a reason for the viewer to sympathise with Magneto. Dr Octopus in Spider-Man 2, & Penguin & Catwoman in Batman Returns, all gave you a simple reason why these people do what they do. Sometimes the story is sadening, others its totally deranged, but the stories seem flat without it(such is the way I feel about The Dark Knight with Joker, Harvey was well done).

 

[The Hoov]

The Joker is a character who doesn't need one. Sure, you could go the "chemical spill" route but really, what would it add? We're not supposed to sympathize with The Joker. He's evil personified. He wants chaos. He wants anarchy. He wants to watch the world burn. There's no real reason why. He just wants it. He's the polar opposite of Batman and THAT'S why The Joker is Batman's arch nemesis.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

I believe it was Killing Joke that explained that Joker took up the monicker of Red Hood in order to make money for his wife & child(cant remember why exactly they needed money) and when he returned to the scene in an attempt to rectify things(the gangsters he was working with were going to kill his family) Batman dropped him into the vat, and his family was murdered. THAT is what made him the polar opposite, while Batman tried to make a world that everyone could live in peace, Joker wanted everyone to suffer like he did.

Its kinda like Victor & Nora Fries, except Joker cant work to bring her back.

 

[AF.]

^ Someone has, his name is Tim Burton. Atleast in his movies the only thing I could complain about is that Harvey Dent is black. To this day Keaton is the only actor to properly potray both Bruce Wayne, & Batman. Joker, Penguin, & Catwoman all had origin stories that were very similair to the comics, although much like every Batman movie has never hit the mark on being a mystery movie.

You are in the minority if you don't think Nolan has produced the best Batman. Nobody will top Nolan in the future, so there shouldn't be anymore Batman's.

The Joker is a character who doesn't need one. Sure, you could go the "chemical spill" route but really, what would it add? We're not supposed to sympathize with The Joker. He's evil personified. He wants chaos. He wants anarchy. He wants to watch the world burn. There's no real reason why. He just wants it. He's the polar opposite of Batman and THAT'S why The Joker is Batman's arch nemesis.

Yep. If we knew everything about The Joker we wouldn't be as interested in him as we all are. As for Bane, he has a small origin story and we gain sympathy for him. It was obviously not Nolan's intention to have ANY sympathy garnered towards Joker whatsoever. He is the ultimate psychopath, the ultimate villain and represents everything wrong in this world all combined into one sadistic fuck.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

^If Nolan wanted that sick sadistic psychopath, Zsasz would have been a much better choice than Joker. Zsasz was even shown briefly in Batman Begins.

If Heath Ledger was alive, people wouldnt care about The Dark Knight half as much as they did. Look at the deaths of Amy Whinehouse & Michael Jackson for proof, they died, and people who had never purchased an album of theirs before ran out and got their entire discographies. Same thing happened with Ledger, people who ripped on him for being in the chickflicks suddenly loved Ledger and ran out to see TDK. Even to the point of when the news was getting responses from people after TDKR they were complaining about the lack of Ledger.

If I had to put Nolans trilogy against Burtons 2, Burton's were clearly made by a Batman fan, and not somebody who had to change everything he possibly could. Same way I feel about Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, clearly a work of love. And as a fan of the comics, I enjoy the movies that are made from the love of the source material, not some quick hollywood moneyfest.

 

[Slim]

^If Nolan wanted that sick sadistic psychopath, Zsasz would have been a much better choice than Joker. Zsasz was even shown briefly in Batman Begins.

If Heath Ledger was alive, people wouldnt care about The Dark Knight half as much as they did. Look at the deaths of Amy Whinehouse & Michael Jackson for proof, they died, and people who had never purchased an album of theirs before ran out and got their entire discographies. Same thing happened with Ledger, people who ripped on him for being in the chickflicks suddenly loved Ledger and ran out to see TDK. Even to the point of when the news was getting responses from people after TDKR they were complaining about the lack of Ledger.

If I had to put Nolans trilogy against Burtons 2, Burton's were clearly made by a Batman fan, and not somebody who had to change everything he possibly could. Same way I feel about Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, clearly a work of love. And as a fan of the comics, I enjoy the movies that are made from the love of the source material, not some quick hollywood moneyfest.

Really to say that is to shit on the performance that Ledger put in as Joker. His performance barring his death was astronomically good. To say that the only reason that people care now about is because of his death is to say that the movie itself is nothing and that Ledger did virtually nothing in the movie. If Ledger were to still be alive then what would have happened would be people would have been clamoring for him to appear in the third installment in some form or fashion. But that would NOT take away from how well he performed in TDK.

Really what it sounds like is that you just like Burton's version so much and just hated Nolan's version and ideas of the movie that no matter what would have happened you would hate it. That is what it seems like and you will find anything that you possibly can to discredit even to go as far as to say that a death is a reason that TDK is good.

Why can't you just give credit where it is due?

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

I did say HALF AS MUCH. So you going off like that shows how little you pay attention. I also added a few examples of how people tend to care more after someone dies. It is not shitting on him at all, its pointing out that half the awards, and half the audience wouldnt have been there if he lived, its more of a statement on how sad society is. Ledger was winning awards before the movie screened for the first time(Scream Awards namely)

I enjoy the Nolan movies, pretty sure I have already said that in this thread. But in my own personal opinion Tim Burtons movies were better because they were closer to the comics. There are other ways Nolan could have had his movie with other villains, Zsasz is a sick demented serial killer who carves his kill tally into his body, the final slash on his forehead is saved for when he kills Batman, all he wants is to hurt, dismember, and kill, which sounds exactly like his version of Joker.

And just to be clear, I was referring to X-Men Origins & X-Men First Class as the Hollywood moneyfests.

 

[~Fallen Angel~]

Tim Burton's Batman films were a joke in comparison to Nolan's. I watched Batman with Jack Nicholson last night after watching Batman Begins and The Dark Knight and that film is boring and underwhelming compared to Nolan's films. I am not stating that Batman and Batman Returns were bad, they were definitely good movies for that time but Nolan's version of Batman has completely blown Burton's out of the water. The characters are a lot better, the storylines are superior and the acting is better.

I think Jack Nicholson did a great job at playing the funny Joker and yes, many will argue that Joker is meant to be funny; hence Nicholson's version was more accurate than Ledger's. However, Ledger's version of The Joker kept me drawn to the film the entire time. He was sadistic, laughed at everything and overall, he was Batman's perfect match. Was he funny? Sometimes but who cares? I definitely preferred Ledger's version.

I did not think much of The Penguin. I used to love Batman Returns but after rewatching it a couple of years ago, The Penguin seemed pretty ridiculous to me. The only character that drew me into that film was Michelle Pfeiffer which brings me to my next point.

I cannot even compare Pfeiier to Hathaway because I did not get the impression that Hathway played Catwoman. I felt that she played Selina Kyle, a burglar. When she first introduced int he first comic, she was introduced simply as The Cat who was a burglar. Therefore, I cannot be disappointed with Anne Hathway's performance. I absolutely loved Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman but Anne Hathaway did a good job playing a burglar. I do wish we learned more about her background though.

As for the other villains, Nolan perfected all of them. Scarecrow was wonderful, Ra Al Ghul and yes, Talia as well. I do wish we could have learned more about Talia in the movie but it was a good twist. Marion Cotillard is an excellent actress so I was very pleased with her performance. Oh wait and let's not forget Bane. He was wonderful! I couldn't understand him at times but he kept me interested and similarly to the comics, it was evident that Bane was Batman's biggest challenge. He was a lot more powerful than him. They did an excellent job conveying that.

Now, who is the better Batman, Keaton or Bale? I will have to go with Christian Bale. Not only was he a better Batman, he was a better Bruce Wayne. He perfected the billionaire that lost his parents at a young age exceptionally. As for his role as Batman, he brought so much dept to the character and one liners that I will always remember such as "it's not who I am but what I do that defines me. Also, Gordon says "I never said thank you" in Batman Begins and Batman responds, "And you'll never have to." Moreover, he played the dark knight rather than the superhero perfectly. I just felt that his portrayal of Batman was a lot more accurate. Batman struggled with his demons so well in all three films.

I would now like to discuss The Dark Knight Rises. I loved it! Yes, there were some plotholes but overall, it kept me interested and it definitely did not feel like a 2 hour and 45 minute movie. I thought Bane was a great villain. I am not sure how I feel about Catwoman being the one to kill kim. It appears that some people were disappointed that Batman wasn't the one that defeated him but we know Batman's one rule which he will never break, he cannot kill.

Also, there were some arguments that Batman and Bane's fight in the ending was weak. Am I the only one that thought that was the point? Wasn't Batman supposed to come back stronger and kick Bane's butt?

There were also arguments that the shocking twist took away from Bane's character because it appeared that he was simply destroying Gotham for his lover, Talia. What did you guys think?

As for the ending, I did not think it was a dream. I truly do think that Batman survived the explosion and decided to fake his own death. It was the perfect ending. I did not see it ending any other way.

 

[Slim]

I did say HALF AS MUCH. So you going off like that shows how little you pay attention. I also added a few examples of how people tend to care more after someone dies. It is not shitting on him at all, its pointing out that half the awards, and half the audience wouldnt have been there if he lived, its more of a statement on how sad society is. Ledger was winning awards before the movie screened for the first time(Scream Awards namely)

I enjoy the Nolan movies, pretty sure I have already said that in this thread. But in my own personal opinion Tim Burtons movies were better because they were closer to the comics. There are other ways Nolan could have had his movie with other villains, Zsasz is a sick demented serial killer who carves his kill tally into his body, the final slash on his forehead is saved for when he kills Batman, all he wants is to hurt, dismember, and kill, which sounds exactly like his version of Joker.

And just to be clear, I was referring to X-Men Origins & X-Men First Class as the Hollywood moneyfests.

If you thought I was going to scroll through 7 pages of posts to read what you wrote... you crazy. I was simply replying to your last post which made it seem like you were pretty much saying half the crowd liked the movie but the other crowd bandwagoned on after Heath ledger died which pretty much is saying that half the crowd only cared cause a now dead guy played the character which takes away from the performance that he did. Someone dying doesn't somehow amplify their talents cause their talents are still exactly portrayed the same as when they were alive. Yeah some get more popular afterwards with myths of how much better they could be and blah blah blah but your statement actually takes away from what was already done by saying half of the crowd wanting to see it and loving it and the such.

And as far as following the comics... tell me... exactly how many people do you think follow the comics? Really... because Nolan was playing into the hands of the people. People KNOW Joker. People don't know Zsasz. People would be more willing to pay to see Batman go against someone they know such as Joker than against someone they don't know. People are more familiar with Bane than with Zsasz. That's why they were chosen. Plus seeing your description of that guy... that would have pushed the rating probably to R which would restrict the revenue where as PG 13 can garner more revenue cause it seems more open and less gory, violent, and the such. You don't make movies to cater to the comic book readers cause the general masses is going to outnumber them EVERY TIME and the movie business is about making money and a PG 13 movie featuring a character people know such as Joker would score huge over an R rated movie featuring Zsasz.

And as far as your last statement... no idea what you are referring to.

 

[Mr.Mayhem]

^ Someone has, his name is Tim Burton. Atleast in his movies the only thing I could complain about is that Harvey Dent is black. To this day Keaton is the only actor to properly potray both Bruce Wayne, & Batman. Joker, Penguin, & Catwoman all had origin stories that were very similair to the comics, although much like every Batman movie has never hit the mark on being a mystery movie.

Nolan Batman is Best batman movies and Christian Bale is the best batman . He brings so much depth to the character and plays it so well . The fact that both the TDK and TDKR were made is because of the cult following of batman begins . Bale did such an amazing job in Batman Begins , that the whole franchise came into life and became the best SuperHero franchise ever . Burton's first batman was boring and dull . Except some comic geeks , nobody gives a fuck whether the movie is following comic or not . All i want is an awesome dark chilling movie and every time Nolan's Batman gives more than what i expect from it . Not every old movie is classic or great . #nuffsaid

 

[~Fallen Angel~]

Nolan Batman is Best batman movies and Christian Bale is the best batman . He brings so much depth to the character and plays it so well . The fact that both the TDK and TDKR were made is because of the cult following of batman begins . Bale did such an amazing job in Batman Begins , that the whole franchise came into life and become the best SuperHero franchise ever . Burton first batman was boring and dull . Except some comic geeks , nobody gives a fuck whether the movie is following comic or not . All i want is an awesome dark chilling movie and every time Nolan's Batman gives more than what i expect from it . Not every old movie is classic or great . #nuffsaid

Yes, exactly! You actually felt Bruce's pain when he's remembering the night his parents died and you understand his fear of bats. I didn't get that vibe from Burton's version at all. They wonder who "The Bat" is. He saves a couple of people, Joker dies and now he is introduced as Batman. I didn't find that interesting. We actually witness how Batman was trained in Batman Begins and how he came to be Batman. I enjoyed that a lot. He was just thrown at us in Burton's Batman.

 

[Deezy]

I wanted to just say I thought the movie was alright, but not as good as the last one. It seemed like there was too much area to cover, and looked like a mess because of it.

But I made the mistake of reading the last five pages, so I'm just going to say. I liked it! and I liked the comic. Even though I didn't read comics.

 

[We Are Legion]

Yeah I watched the first Burton Batman movie yesterday and it admittedly wasn't quite how I remember it. It hardly measures up to Nolan's movies even remotely.

 

[Deezy]

Yeah I watched the first Burton Batman movie yesterday and it admittedly wasn't quite how I remember it. It hardly measures up to Nolan's movies even remotely.

IDK, it was the 80s, you have to remember that.

Jack was a superb Joker, Ledger just licked his lips alot and taked in a whisper, Tom Hardy did that too, let's see him try keep that smile on an entire movie.

I like both movies, but I'm not going to say Nolan did it better than Burton, mostly because I just think of the times they are in and put them in that perspective.

Burton had the innocence and greed of the 80s and Nolan has the cynicism and greed of the 2010s.