The Closer (TNT)

[Montana]

Alot of these lists need some reasoning because they have no merit whatsoever. I thought these lists were about success and accomplishments, names like Benoit, Edge,Cena, Styles, Lesnar, Vader and these mark names are second and third tier stars that don't belong with the names of Hogan, Rock, Flair, HBK, and so forth. So....

1. Austin. He's the BIGGEST DRAW EVER. Hogan broke ground, but Austin built a whole fucking city. He smoked Hogan in the ratings for two years, sold more PPVs in six months than WCW did in 18 and just about holds every major draw record in North American Wrestling. Plus he has held every major WWF title, KOTR, A multiple RR winner and was in the Greatest Feud of All Time (vs. McMahon)as well as in one of the best WWF matches ever (vs. Rock WM17). He was everything Hogan was but far greater. The numbers are there, he IS the MOST SUCCESSFUL WRESTLER EVER.

2. Hogan. He broke the ground for modern wrestling and was the poster boy of the 80's. I think that Vince's role in their partnership is often overlooked in Hogan's success but he is the right choice as #2.

3. Ric Flair. He's the greatest of all time, a 16 time World Champ, a top 5 promo, and the greatest non-WWF North American draw. He made a million dollars without a guaranteed contract. That's drawing power.

4.The Rock. No other wrestler has had as much mainstream acceptance as the Rock. He's a top 5 promo, a multiple world champ and the second highest draw during the Attitude Era.

5. Misawa. He's Japan's Ric Flair. Just with more great matches than HBK and Hart combined.

6. HBK- He had more longevity, had better matches and was a better draw than Hart.

7. Sting- WCW's real franchise, seems to be overlooked on many lists.

8. Bret Hart- I like Bret, but he is the Internet's Most Over rated. He's great but I think he is borderline second tier.

9. Undertaker- He's the WWE's old reliable pick-up truck. He'll always be there to pick up a load and go. Been doing it longer for the E than anyone on this list.

10. Mick Foley- It was really hard picking Foley over HHH. I think HHH's position in the company has been a Who-he-knows kind of thing. Plus Foley's characters are so much more deeper than HHH and Have a Nice Day was a best seller and so profitable that the WWE has been turning out books on a daily basis because of it.

Before you start ragging on the other peoples list, you should probably get your shit straight. Im not here to argue and say how bad your list is, because honestly its better than most, BUT there is several factors i think you missed when explaining.

- Austin over hogan, which is fine but your reasoning didnt. When explaining you mostly used hogan from his nwo days and completely dismissed the 10 prior years WHERE HE RAN SHIT.


- Stings on your list- Where is Macho man, HHH, Edge yes Edge. I think top was a top 20 wrestler, but #7 no way. He was the franchise player for wcw in the early 90s back when they had about 1000 people to their shows. Vader you could was just as big as sting. At least Vader was huge overseas, before touching down. Keep in mind, sting never made it to the big leagues. Not saying vader is better, just didnt see why you dissed vader, adn put the stinger so high.

- Mick Foley - The man famous for falling off a cage. The god of hardcore. How does selling books make him more sucess than Edge, one of the guys you said is not worthy. Lets see, Edge has what 3x HW champ, 6x IC champ, 1 X US champ 10x Tag champ....not to mention King of the fucking ring. Oh yeah, 2x Money in the bank. Lets see, what his Wm record 6-1. Edge is just hitting his prime as well.

I like your list, but i thought it was pretty clear, you choose two of your favorites, much like the rest. rep + for explaining your reasoning though. Realistically theres about 8 clear cut guys for these list, with 2 on any list you can argue. Just how it breaks down on i guess. But seriosly Brock and AJ is joke.

Anyways, sorry for the rant, feel free to comment on mine, its very first one.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

Before you start ragging on the other peoples list, you should probably get your shit straight. Im not here to argue and say how bad your list is, because honestly its better than most, BUT there is several factors i think you missed when explaining.

- Austin over hogan, which is fine but your reasoning didnt. When explaining you mostly used hogan from his nwo days and completely dismissed the 10 prior years WHERE HE RAN SHIT.


- Stings on your list- Where is Macho man, HHH, Edge yes Edge. I think top was a top 20 wrestler, but #7 no way. He was the franchise player for wcw in the early 90s back when they had about 1000 people to their shows. Vader you could was just as big as sting. At least Vader was huge overseas, before touching down. Keep in mind, sting never made it to the big leagues. Not saying vader is better, just didnt see why you dissed vader, adn put the stinger so high.

- Mick Foley - The man famous for falling off a cage. The god of hardcore. How does selling books make him more sucess than Edge, one of the guys you said is not worthy. Lets see, Edge has what 3x HW champ, 6x IC champ, 1 X US champ 10x Tag champ....not to mention King of the fucking ring. Oh yeah, 2x Money in the bank. Lets see, what his Wm record 6-1. Edge is just hitting his prime as well.

I like your list, but i thought it was pretty clear, you choose two of your favorites, much like the rest. rep + for explaining your reasoning though. Realistically theres about 8 clear cut guys for these list, with 2 on any list you can argue. Just how it breaks down on i guess. But seriosly Brock and AJ is joke.

Anyways, sorry for the rant, feel free to comment on mine, its very first one.

I did factor in title reigns, but to me, to all workers, success equates to money. My reasoning is just that with Austin over Hogan and Foley over Edge. Vince has gone on the record to say that Austin made him far more money than Hogan did. He moved more merchandise, sold more PPVS, sold out more stadiums and broadened business far more in his five year run than Hogan did in his fifteen year WWF-WCW run. Go look at the numbers. Hogan made Vince millions, Austin made Vince billions. I used the Raw-Nitro comparison to show that Austin put Hogan's WCW out of business. The biggest success in wrestling is the one who made the most money, because if fictitious title reigns were what really defined success then why aren't we discussing Jerry Lawler, Christian, and a whole lot of others?

And Edge over Mick Foley, isn't as easy as you make it seem. Mick Foley basically made HHH in 2000, has the highest rated segment in WWE television history and his books have made more money alone for the E then Edge, and if you want to go further go look at PPV's headlined by a Foley title match and compare those buy rates to buy rates from Edge's title matches on PPV. Most non-World Title reigns don't matter much, especially when six of your tag reigns are like one month or less It's not even close.Foley's reigns were short and basically transition reigns, it didn't lessen his drawing power. Edge doesn't have that ability. Edge also can't give the rub to people they way Foley can. The WWE digs up Foley annually to put someone over, be it Orton in 2004 or even Edge last year, he's still more successful than Edge that him jobbing to anyone NOW is more beneficial to the company financially and it benefits the whoever he works with. Edge can't do this because he isn't as successful as Foley. Foley was a staple during the greatest Era in the company while Edge is just another B-show world champion during a recession. There's a huge difference.

I also took Sting over Vader because he was a draw. He drew those meager hosues that you were talking about, btw, they were about 2000-3000, but people were there to see Sting, HE WAS WCW. And he was the draw in WCW's highest grossing PPV. So, that's why I took him. I'd take him over any other WCW guy.

I'm not trying to come off as a know-it-all snob, I just comprehended "success" differently, because to me, it will always be the dollar over title reigns. Ask any wrestler. I like good discussion.

 

[CoutureFan]

"Hulk Hogan made the wrestling business"...that's a bunch of shit. The guy did help get the name out there but the guy that made the business how it is today is Vince McMahon. Vince made Hulk.

 

[Montana]

I did factor in title reigns, but to me, to all workers, success equates to money. My reasoning is just that with Austin over Hogan and Foley over Edge. Vince has gone on the record to say that Austin made him far more money than Hogan did. He moved more merchandise, sold more PPVS, sold out more stadiums and broadened business far more in his five year run than Hogan did in his fifteen year WWF-WCW run. Go look at the numbers. Hogan made Vince millions, Austin made Vince billions. I used the Raw-Nitro comparison to show that Austin put Hogan's WCW out of business. The biggest success in wrestling is the one who made the most money, because if fictitious title reigns were what really defined success then why aren't we discussing Jerry Lawler, Christian, and a whole lot of others?

And Edge over Mick Foley, isn't as easy as you make it seem. Mick Foley basically made HHH in 2000, has the highest rated segment in WWE television history and his books have made more money alone for the E then Edge, and if you want to go further go look at PPV's headlined by a Foley title match and compare those buy rates to buy rates from Edge's title matches on PPV. Most non-World Title reigns don't matter much, especially when six of your tag reigns are like one month or less It's not even close.Foley's reigns were short and basically transition reigns, it didn't lessen his drawing power. Edge doesn't have that ability. Edge also can't give the rub to people they way Foley can. The WWE digs up Foley annually to put someone over, be it Orton in 2004 or even Edge last year, he's still more successful than Edge that him jobbing to anyone NOW is more beneficial to the company financially and it benefits the whoever he works with. Edge can't do this because he isn't as successful as Foley. Foley was a staple during the greatest Era in the company while Edge is just another B-show world champion during a recession. There's a huge difference.

I also took Sting over Vader because he was a draw. He drew those meager hosues that you were talking about, btw, they were about 2000-3000, but people were there to see Sting, HE WAS WCW. And he was the draw in WCW's highest grossing PPV. So, that's why I took him. I'd take him over any other WCW guy.

I'm not trying to come off as a know-it-all snob, I just comprehended "success" differently, because to me, it will always be the dollar over title reigns. Ask any wrestler. I like good discussion.

I agree with where your coming from. I think we looked at it two different ways. I based mine of sucess (getting over) and accomplishments. I wasnt really disagree'ing with your points, and re reading i was kinda a dick, but all in all you explained your picks. Austin or Hogan its a toss up. Vader or Sting...Sting would the better choice of this list but i wouldnt write off vader, if i had sting on my list. And Foley and Edge is a toss up. Personally i'd take Edge. Foley had a lot around him to work with. (HHH, Rock, Vince, Austin) You could argue that helped or hurt him.

As a wrestling fan, i took Edge, because he rose to fame. Foley is a hardcore legend, but i wouldnt consider his books to mean anything on this list. Nor the This is your life rock segment, due to it mainly being the rock. Also bc who knows how much longer Edge can wrestle for. We know Foley is about done.

Hulk Hogan made the wrestling business"...that's a bunch of shit. The guy did help get the name out there but the guy that made the business how it is today is Vince McMahon. Vince made Hulk.

I couldn't any wrestler in the 80's play hogans role, as near as well as Hogan did. You had Piper, Steamboat, and Savage, but i couldnt imagine the past without Hogan. Hogan did help out with storylines, and the direction of the Hogan character. Im not discrediting Vince, but i think they were pretty equal partners when building the wwe.

 

[monkeystyle]

Hulk Hogan made the wrestling business"...that's a bunch of shit. The guy did help get the name out there but the guy that made the business how it is today is Vince McMahon. Vince made Hulk.

I couldn't any wrestler in the 80's play hogans role, as near as well as Hogan did. You had Piper, Steamboat, and Savage, but i couldnt imagine the past without Hogan. Hogan did help out with storylines, and the direction of the Hogan character. Im not discrediting Vince, but i think they were pretty equal partners when building the wwe.

Hmmm.... I think this sums up Hogan fairly well.

VINCE: I need a talentless, simple-minded hack who can do three things over and over again with a lot of enthusiasm, but can't actually wrestle. Hmmmm.....

BOLEA: HEYA MISTER MCMAHON!! I'M REALLY SORRY, BUT I ACCIDENTALLY TORE YOUR NEWLY DRYCLEANED SUIT IN HALF AND CRUSHED YOUR PET POODLE WITH MY CALF WHEN I SLIPPED AND FELL ON IT. I HOPE YOU'RE NOT MAD!!

VINCE: You're kidding.

BOLEA: (cupping his ear in a curiously swirly manner) WHAT'S THAT YOU SAID? TELL ME AGAIN BECAUSE I'M HARD OF HEARING, WHICH PAT PATTERSON SAYS IS WHY I CAN'T DO ANYTHING BESIDES A MILITARY PRESS SLAM!!!

VINCE: (lightbulb)

 

[cena542007]

1.Hogan
2.Bret Hart
3.Shawn Michaels
4.Undertaker
5.Triple H
6.Stone Cold
7.Ric Flair
8.Eddie Guerrero
9.John Cena
10.Razor Ramon

 

[Impactplayer]

My Top 10

1. Ric Flair
2. Hulk Hogan
3. HHH
4. The Rock
5. Stone Cold
6. Kurt Angle
7. Misawa
8. Foley
9. Shane Douglas
10. Jerry Lynn (No Joke)

Thats my top 10 abit weird but you know........

 

[Great One]

This is always the hardest thing to do... I like Montana's list the most, but I feel Triple H should be higher up and Jericho really needs a place on there... Angle probably would as well if you counted his prime days, but that was a massive amount of short success. Still, in all honestly I think Jericho would top Edge... dunno, REALLY hard to pick. Don't forget Jericho still has years to come in wrestling... he's not done with yet, so it's very arguable.

 

[Famou$ 187]

Bret Hart
Ric Flair
Rock
Austin
Hogan
HHH
Micheals
Undertaker
Edge
Kurt Angle

HM:Randy Orton,Chris Jericho & Sting.

 

[Chain Gang DX]

1. THE ROCK! suprise but he was "the Peoples Champ!"

2. hulk hogan

3. BROCK LESNAR! he was unstopable!

4. steve austin

5. shawn michaels

6. goldberg

7. john cena

8. triple h

9. the undertaker

10. bret hart



honered mentions- ric flair, kurt angle, booker t, eddie guererro, mick foley

 

[Great One]

^^^Ric Flair not on a top 10 list has no credibility whatsoever...

And Goldberg... wow. No comment.

 

[edge&christian4ever]

1. Bret Hart
2. Ric Flair
3. Hulk Hogan
4. Shawn Michaels
5. The Rock
6. Stone Cold
7. Macho Man
8. Sting
9. Edge
10. Diamond Dallas Paige

Honorable Mention
Christian ,Piper, Hall, Nash, Warrior, Foley, HHH, many more that I'm to lazy to mention

 

[RingDeath]

You should make the timeframe to start in 1984. That's the beginning of the Wrestlemania era, when the WWF centralized the sport. With that in mind, here's my top 10 since 1984:

1. Ric Flair
2. HBK
3. Bret Hart
4. Steve Austin
5. Hulk Hogan
6. The Rock
7. Sting
8. Randy Savage
9. Roddy Piper
10. HHH

 

[Choose Slack]

1. Ric Flair
2. Roddy Piper
3. Raven
4. Bret Hart
5. Shawn Michaels
6. Ricky Steamboat
7. Chris Benoit
8. Dean Malenko
9. Chris Jericho
10. Triple H

 

[mantemania]

Hulk Hogan
Bret Hart
Ultimate Warrior
Razor Ramon
Ted DiBiase
Demolition (Ax and Smash)
Diesel
Jake the Snake Roberts
KoKo B Ware