No, the Rock left when he got famous. He left ON TOP, Goldberg and Lesnar left with one of the worst matches in the history of the WWE and the only reason they got any reaction in that match was because they were in MSG and because Austin was there and stunned them like the chumpstains they are. If they came back now, they'd not get anywhere NEAR the same reaction they got back then. The Rock, however, would get the same reaction no matter what because he's better than all of them, hands down.
Another awful argument and an ever poorer diversion tactic. What does the Rock have ANYTHING to do with anything I said or what you originally said? Nothing. And way to try and trivialize two of the most successful careers of the era. It doesn't matter what you think of them as wrestlers, and in case you didn't notice, Lesnar carried the Smackdown main event scene the entire two years he was there, so you got nothing there. And the Mania match? Big fucking deal. The match was planned to be one of the main events, then weeks before the event it got leaked that BOTH guys were leaving the company, Lesnar for football and Goldberg's contract was up. They brought in Austin to put the company over since there's no point in putting either over since they'd be leaving. And of course the match sucked, both were obviously unmotivated and the New Yorkers shat all over it because they are the smartest fans in the country and knew what was happening. Again, Austin was inserted, not as you claim, but to salvage a bad situation.
All of that aside, one bad match can't nor doesn't decide how successful a wrestler was. Lesnar was a main eventer 4 months into his run and was a main eventer until he decided to walk away while he was ahead of the business and carried his promotion.
Then there's Goldberg. Are you going to try and tell me he wasn't a success? WCW's last round of high ratings came under his reign. He was easily the most over guy on the roster until the company went under. It's not his fault morons running the office didn't capitalize further on his success. He certainly isn't the reason WCW went under, he definitely is a reason they stayed afloat as long as they did. If you're trying to tell anyone with a straight face that either guy wasn't successful, then either you're severely ignorant or just trying to grab anything for arguments sake and it seems like you're doing both.
Yes, the WWE gave him the title to tap into the Indian market that makes perfect business sense. Lets give the title to Yoshi Tatsu so they can get that coveted Japanese market. He got the title for the same reason Miz did, he was hot for a second. He was, like Miz, the top of a pile of shit of mediocrity.
Basically that was one of the main reasons. I don't know if you are aware, but the E does a vast amount of business overseas, Khali is a celebrity in the Mid East. Makes sense, plus he was given a run because none of the other proven guys on SD were increasing the numbers, so why not Khali? And now guys like Orton aren't helping the numbers, so why not Miz? He's got the skills, in ring and on the mic to get it done, despite how you see it. This also relates to your Rey argument also because Rey was given the belt to exploit not only the death of Eddy but the Latino viewership. Rey is over, but you're trying to make it sound like he's Cena over, up north he's as over as any upper mid carder, but not to the point where he's a 3+ time champ, he's not and that's why he had to wait another 4 years before he got another reign, appealing to ONE constituency doesn't constitute global appeal the way a Cena does, or the way Miz can be hated across the board.
If it was so bad, why didn't Rey's popularity suffer? Oh yeah, that's right, because unlike MIZ HE DOESN'T NEED TO BE GIVEN A TITLE TO GET OVER!!
If it was so good, why did he have to wait 4 years and a broken nose on Taker to get another run? Oh yeah, that's right, HE'S NOT AS OVER AS YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE HIM OUT TO BE. But whatever helps you're argument.
Yes, the fact that he had a classic match with the star of the company had nothing to do with him getting over. Riiiiiiiight.
It wasn't a classic. It was a good match, but not classic. If it got him over, then why did HBK have to toil in the mid card for another 4 years before he broke through with revolutionary ladder matches, a talk show segment and then finally getting a Mania main event with Diesel? Nash and Hall did more for HBK then Hart ever did and it's not even debatable. But cling to that, you don't have much left. But Miz, only having worked for 4 years has not only gotten someone over, but elevated them straight from rookie to mid card champ. He got Danielson over straight out the gate on NXT, continued with the feud after Dragon's suspension, then put him over like a motherfucker. And again, HE'S ONLY BEEN WRESTLING FOR 4 YEARS AND MADE A LEGIT MID CARD CHAMPION BECAUSE OF THE POWER OF HIS RUB.
So let's see, Bret in 20 YEARS: 2 guys who benefited from his main event status
Miz, 4 year mid carder made a solid mid card champ who lacks charisma. Hmmmmm....
And it's so funny how you keep bringing Bret into this. Bret wasn't that over, he was given the strap by process of elimination. Steroid scandal ring a bell? What about the mass exodus of bona fide main event talent? Warrior went awol again. Hogan was in Hollywood, Flair was on his way out, Piper was gone and Randy Savage had been put out to pasture and forced into the commentating booth by McMahon. The uppermidcard guys from the 80s were either gone or pushed down the card. Ted DiBiasie? Money Inc. Jake Roberts? Derelict and in WCW, one month from being fired. Rick Rude? WCW. Mr. Perfect? Shot back, couldn't do a full time schedule. So who was left? Taker and Bret and to try and counter the steroid scandals, they went the Bret Hart route. And if he was as over as you keep trying to claim he was, why'd they go back to Hogan, despite knowing Hogan was going to call it quits and Luger was in the pipeline? Because Hogan could get Yoko over and Bret couldn't.
And you talk about how good Bret's matches were, so fucking what. Wrestling skills really haven't mattered since the days of Thesz and wool tights. Know why Bret's return this past year didn't go over as much as say a return from Goldberg or even Warrior? Because HE WASN'T AS OVER AS YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE HIM OUT FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR ARGUMENT. He never drew and his mic skills are sub par. But he could wrestle, but that doesn't make you a successful champ.
Yes and the face first russian leg sweep wasn't overused by...uh....everyone.
So, let me see if I'm understanding this correctly...you're arguing against the sloppiness of the Zig Zag, which variations have been used by MVP and Shelton within the past three years, against how many people have used the Skull Crushing Finale, whom no one in the E has used in awhile? Sure. Keep clinging....
if by holding his own, you mean Miz pranced around and let Danielson sell like a motherfucker, because that's what he does, then yes. Danielson carried them both because, in reality they both kinda suck in the ring. Ziggler slghtly less than Miz.
If by "pranced around" you mean demonstrating his new, and totally above average, mat work which added to his repertoire and showed how he has improved and selling like a motherfucker, then yes, he did hold his own. Ziggler just took all of Dragon's spots and did little bumping, the only heat that he brought to the match was due to Vickie. And no, Ziggler hasn't shown ANY improvement in the ring, Miz has been improving every week since he started in ECW and an improving worker trumps a guy who relies almost exclusively on athleticism and a mouthpiece to get over.
I also like how you ignored the rest of your argument that I eviscerated, but whatever, it's your show Enzo.
I didn't ignore the rest of your argument, I just didn't have the time to continually drill something into you when all you do is argue with unfounded statements, blanket statements and blind bias. This has been a fun debate and if claiming you "eviscerated" my rebuttals with
ignorance and blind bias makes you feel that you have won, by all means go ahead. But it would just have been easier if you just said what you've been moaning about from the beginning; you hate the Miz. And for now, the show is over.
