Take that russev

[edge4ever]

It was definitely a heel move. He threatened a man, used unnecessary force on him and forced his associate to cave in to his demands. Cena utilized heel tactics.

If you are taking it out of context, sure. First off, rusev cheated and low blowed him. Then made him pass out to the accolade.

Cena threatened to beat him up if kept talking about his country. It's not like Cena just started attacking him with no justification or reckless abandonment. Not at all.

The force wasn't unneccessary if you ask me. All a matter of opionion. Cena didn't use a weapon, low blow him, etc... He simply beat him up and held his submission on him until he tapped out and nearly passed out much like rusev did to him. Again, he warned him.

Lana was the one who decided to give him a title match... She didn't have to.. She could've let Cena just give him a beating and that's it.

A true "heel turn" would be Cena turning on his fans...only fighting for himself.. And making use of any cheap tactic he can get...

This was not the case here.

 

[Stopspot]

If you are taking it out of context, sure. First off, rusev cheated and low blowed him. Then made him pass out to the accolade.

Cena threatened to beat him up if kept talking about his country. It's not like Cena just started attacking him with no justification or reckless abandonment. Not at all.

The force wasn't unneccessary if you ask me. All a matter of opionion. Cena didn't use a weapon, low blow him, etc... He simply beat him up and held his submission on him until he tapped out and nearly passed out much like rusev did to him. Again, he warned him.

Lana was the one who decided to give him a title match... She didn't have to.. She could've let Cena just give him a beating and that's it.

A true "heel turn" would be Cena turning on his fans...only fighting for himself.. And making use of any cheap tactic he can get...

This was not the case here.

1: Not going to deny that Rusev cheated. But the fact that Cena's character doesn't have the brains to use that to get a match instead of force is just stupid.

2: Someone talking shit about your country is not a reason to use force on them. Free speech and what not, and American media spends so much time talking shit about other countries for no reason it is only fair play.

3: Cena attacked a man, applied a submission hold and refused to let go unless he got what he wanted, that is supervillany/Terrorism 101. Do as I say or someone dies/pays for it. Of course Lana is going to agree because her character does not want her charge injured.

The fact remains that the John Cena character took it too far, and that is why it should be interpreted as a heel turn, because if it was any other character doing this, it would be. Babyfaces don't make heels agree to title matches by forcing them, they outsmart them, play to their egos and arrogance.

This wasn't intended to be a heel turn but it just as well should be because of how it flipped the dynamic of antagonist and protagonist. The actions of Cena in this segment would have turned any other good guy character into a villain.

 

[edge4ever]

1: Not going to deny that Rusev cheated. But the fact that Cena's character doesn't have the brains to use that to get a match instead of force is just stupid.

Me: he had no choice, really. Cena was backed into a corner by Stephanie. Again, I dont think what he did was that bad. Does this mean orton is a heel for attacking Rollins? No clearly a face my friend.

2: Someone talking shit about your country is not a reason to use force on them. Free speech and what not, and American media spends so much time talking shit about other countries for no reason it is only fair play.

Me: Opinions vary. We all have free speech in America, but to cenas point, sometimes you get your ass kicked for saying or doing certain things. Theres no reason to dive into what our media says about other countries as all countries do this in some fashion.

3: Cena attacked a man, applied a submission hold and refused to let go unless he got what he wanted, that is supervillany/Terrorism 101. Do as I say or someone dies/pays for it. Of course Lana is going to agree because her character does not want her charge injured.

Me: yes Cena attacked a man. Several faces attack and go after other superstars for retribution, justice, whatever you want to call it. And, I know I'm beating a dead horse, but rusev was warned. He chose to do that. Randy didn't really warn Seth, he just did it... So this means orton isn't a face because he has some "heelish" tendencies? ... Cena is not heel because of this. Sometimes there's a need to "eye for an eye" "tooth for a tooth"



The fact remains that the John Cena character took it too far, and that is why it should be interpreted as a heel turn, because if it was any other character doing this, it would be. Babyfaces don't make heels agree to title matches by forcing them, they outsmart them, play to their egos and arrogance.

Me: I 100% disagree. All opinion as I don't think he took it too far.

This wasn't intended to be a heel turn but it just as well should be because of how it flipped the dynamic of antagonist and protagonist. The actions of Cena in this segment would have turned any other good guy character into a villain.

 

[Stopspot]

Yet there is a clear and obvious difference between the Orton and Cena cases.

Rollins attacked Orton, took him out and kayfabe put him on the injury list for almost half a year. Rusev cheated to beat Cena in a match and insulted his country. The former justifies extreme retaliation, the latter does not.

Orton vs Rollins is personal, a blood fued. Cena vs Rusev is far from that

 

[edge4ever]

Yet there is a clear and obvious difference between the Orton and Cena cases.

Rollins attacked Orton, took him out and kayfabe put him on the injury list for almost half a year. Rusev cheated to beat Cena in a match and insulted his country. The former justifies extreme retaliation, the latter does not.

Orton vs Rollins is personal, a blood fued. Cena vs Rusev is far from that

Rusev low blowed Cena and then put a hold on him knocking him out... And kept the hold on deep to the point where Cena could t respond.... So just because Cena wasn't injured in the story and was only maybe close to being injured, that makes Cenas stf "attack" not needed? Hmmmmm.., opinions...

It's personal to Cena... Who are you to say it's not?


I'm not saying orton and Rollins is more extreme.. But cenas attack wasn't that ruthless... I thought it was fair for their feud.

 

[Stopspot]

Rusev low blowed Cena and then put a hold on him knocking him out... And kept the hold on deep to the point where Cena could t respond.... So just because Cena wasn't injured in the story and was only maybe close to being injured, that makes Cenas stf "attack" not needed? Hmmmmm.., opinions...

It's personal to Cena... Who are you to say it's not?


I'm not saying orton and Rollins is more extreme.. But cenas attack wasn't that ruthless... I thought it was fair for their feud.

Cena wasn't close to being injured, he didn't show any signs of injury the night after. Hell, he walked backstage after the match like nothing had happened once he was on his feet.

And yes I am saying that Cena vs Rusev isn't personal, because it hasn't been presented as such. This isn't about Cena vs Rusev, or about the US title even. And hasn't been since Steph started the whole "mania without Cena" thing, at that moment it became about Cena finding a spot at mania at any means necessary.

You don't have your top face do stuff like this. Hogan didn't choke out André to get a match. Bret didn't attack Michael's and force his wife to watch, not even Austin did stuff like this. And he struck Vince around every other week!

The top babyface is supposed to be the on screen moral compass. So don't have him do villanous things! He could have easily fooled Rusev into a match just as well.

 

[Green Jesus]

Even though I don't consider it a heel turn, John did go a little too far when it comes to his character, the look on his face is exactly what we would expect of a heel cena

Spoiler: That's some darth vader shit right here

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

He attacked a man, choked him out and forced his manager to agree to his terms under threat of force. That's a heel/villain thing to do.
Rusev's character's opinion of America aside, Cena just committed a hostage situation to force his way. Had that been any other character it would have been a heel turn.

lol talk about reaching

 

[Trip in the Head]

I haven't even really seen it yet, but I've read about it and it sounds to me that Cena did almost exactly what Rollins did to get the Authority back.

Even though I don't consider it a heel turn, John did go a little too far when it comes to his character, the look on his face is exactly what we would expect of a heel cena

Spoiler: That's some darth vader shit right here

View attachment 1438

More like Vigo

Spoiler

Is someone going to turn that Cena scowl into a smiley or what?

 

[Green Jesus]

I haven't even really seen it yet, but I've read about it and it sounds to me that Cena did almost exactly what Rollins did to get the Authority back.


More like Vigo

Spoiler

Is someone going to turn that Cena scowl into a smiley or what?

Yeah, it was definitly a throwback to Rollins and the authority. Also lol for the shopped vigo

It was a good segment, but it felt a little awkward as it was something we would expect from a pissed off ambrose or orton, but not from the clear-cut good guy john cena in USA's name.

 

[The GOAT]

A lot of babyfaces have been using heelish tactics since forever. People tend to have a certain outlook when it comes to this stuff - as long as the babyface is doing it to someone who has carried out several despicable acts themselves, people are more than willing to look past their favorites committing questionable actions (at least up to a certain point... there's obviously still lines and parameters that babyfaces can't cross) that they would normally vilify the heels over.

And so the likes of Mark Henry, Big Show and Ryback get called assholes for bullying innocent people backstage, but when Cena does the same thing to an annoying and obnoxious heel like Michael Cole in a match in late 2012 (bullies him, embarrasses him, and pours BBQ sauce all over him in front of everybody), it's 'acceptable' because everyone felt at the time that Cole "had it coming." Same thing with the way Cena threatened Paul Heyman last September by telling him that if Brock Lesnar didn't show up to face him the next week, he would force Heyman to compete in a match against him. And there's a bazillion different examples of things like this.

(People tend to largely have this same type of attitude in regards to things in real-life, too.)

You don't have your top face do stuff like this. Hogan didn't choke out André to get a match. Bret didn't attack Michael's and force his wife to watch, not even Austin did stuff like this. And he struck Vince around every other week!

lol Except kidnapping him one night, forcing him to squeal like a pig, putting a gun to his head, and then laughing over the fact that he just pissed his pants. All on national television.

Hulk Hogan, supposedly (one of) the most clean-cut wrestling character of all-time, also showed that he wasn't completely above using dirty tactics himself. He cheated to help Randy Savage win the WWF Championship at Wrestlemania 4, he cheated to win the WWF Championship back from the Undertaker at This Tuesday In Texas, etc. He also showed he was sometimes a sore loser, too. Look at the way he reacted to losing the '89 and '92 Royal Rumble matches fair and square. All that and more. Jesse Ventura used to call out Hogan on a lot of these things on commentary, and the babyface commentators (McMahon, Monsoon, Schiavone, etc.) would either ignore it or use very frail justifications for it.

 

[The GOAT]

Also, for the record, Undertaker threatened to have Kane throw HHH's wife Stephanie about 70 or so feet down to the cold hard concrete if Hunter didn't agree to a match with him at Wrestlemania X-7, and Taker was the babyface and HHH the heel in that scenario. I'd say that's quite a bit worse than what Cena did by far.

 

[Green Jesus]

Yea, sure lock, there are babyfaces that blur the lines, but so far John cena was not one of them. The michael cole stuff was after michael cole himself embarrassed Cena's good friend in a similar fashion, so it wasn't as much bullying as it was standing up to a bully.

In the current storyline john cena didn't even seem that upset over losing to rusev(making only a few remarks over the low blow and none about rusev hurting or injuring him) until Steph came out and said "nope, no wrestlemania for you". Only then he started bitching and throwing hissy fits over things that so far did not get under his skin as much, such as USA bashing.

Hulk hogan was a good example, and I may have to check on that, but Steve Austin and Undertaker are kayfabe dangerous people even when babyfaces. They do not "rise above the hate" and whatnot

 

[The GOAT]

Yea, sure lock, there are babyfaces that blur the lines, but so far John cena was not one of them. The michael cole stuff was after michael cole himself embarrassed Cena's good friend in a similar fashion, so it wasn't as much bullying as it was standing up to a bully.

In the current storyline john cena didn't even seem that upset over losing to rusev(making only a few remarks over the low blow and none about rusev hurting or injuring him) until Steph came out and said "nope, no wrestlemania for you". Only then he started bitching and throwing hissy fits over things that so far did not get under his skin as much, such as USA bashing.

Hulk hogan was a good example, and I may have to check on that, but Steve Austin and Undertaker are kayfabe dangerous people even when babyfaces. They do not "rise above the hate" and whatnot

But that's still along the lines of what I said. Two wrongs shouldn't make a right if indeed you really are a super, clean-cut good guy.

In regards to the story with Rusev, maybe the writing just hasn't been putting enough emphasis on it (which I feel would be a pretty valid criticism considering the feud should have been about Cena getting revenge for America from the very start, and the stuff about "Is Cena past it?" should have come in later only after Cena lost the first match, but I digress) or maybe we're supposed to just fill in the blanks ourselves, but Rusev has been shitting on America for the last year and we all know how much Cena loves America and supports the troops. So most would be able to connect the dots themselves and realize that the thing that has Cena so fired up and determined to get Rusev to agree to a rematch is that he doesn't want Rusev to walk away with the victory after everything he's done and said about the country he loves. I'm not saying that Cena's actions aren't questionable for a guy who goes around touting his "Rise Above The Hate" slogan, but I feel the writing not being a little more clear and concise about Cena's motivations for doing what he did is the bigger problem.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

People are such marks when it comes to Cena's character and actions. It is no wonder WWE refuses to turn him heel when you are all obsessed with his face character