Sports Entertainment killed Wrestling

[xFrenchKissx]

Back in the old days, wrestling was a bunch of technically sound wrestlers with only a slight emphasis put on character. Everyone was basically a good guy or a bad guy with no story behind anything, you just knew from their actions.

Now, less importance is put on actual in ring ability, it is more centered around who can get over with the fans. Which in turn, gives us semi-likable characters who can't do shit in the ring. We all know a really good wrestler is someone who can balance these things and be good at both.

Is focusing purely on charisma, instead of trying to turn out and push wrestlers who are decent in a technical sense, killing wrestling?

Is it easier to build a star out of someone who is charismatic but limited in the ring, then it is to take someone who is technically sound and make them likable?

 

[Great One]

Well, anyone who is charismatic in the ring or can tell a good story is by all means a good wrestler to me, why wouldn't he be? It's Blue to think otherwise. Bret Hart could tell an amazing story in the ring, built up to his Sharpshooter perfectly, etc. Thus was pretty charismatic. On the mic, he was a piece of shit. I think the same thing with AJ. People view him as a spot monkey or whatever, but I personally think he truly knows how to get the crowd involved in his matches and could be a big time mid card esque guy in the WWE.

 

[xFrenchKissx]

Well, anyone who is charismatic in the ring or can tell a good story is by all means a good wrestler to me, why wouldn't he be? It's Blue to think otherwise. Bret Hart could tell an amazing story in the ring, built up to his Sharpshooter perfectly, etc. Thus was pretty charismatic. On the mic, he was a piece of shit. I think the same thing with AJ. People view him as a spot monkey or whatever, but I personally think he truly knows how to get the crowd involved in his matches and could be a big time mid card esque guy in the WWE.

Ok, I see your point. Some people can put on amazing matches and pull fans into it through their performance, without ever having to say anything. But a lot can be added to that by being good on the mic as well.

For instance, if Bret Hart could cut a promo the same way as say, Shawn Michaels, or Randy Orton could channel the charisma of Jericho.

Do you think practice can make a guy who is lousy on the mic better, or is it something that just comes naturally and can't be imitated?

 

[maty619]

I think if Shelton was around 'back in the day' he would be a multi-time world champion and basically an international superstar. I think the entertainment side is killing wrestling but it is making the whole thing better to watch, if it was those days then it could get boring with like everyone would be Kurt Angle esque. I would say it is easier to make a star out of a good wrestler with shabby promos than it is to make a star oout of a charismatic wrestler with shabby wrestling skills, but it seems that WWE doesn't have the time for un charismatic stars anymore, so that could leave me to believe that I'm wrong.

 

[Great One]

Do you think practice can make a guy who is lousy on the mic better, or is it something that just comes naturally and can't be imitated?

Eh.. somewhat. People say Miz got all that more better on the mic, but the truth is, he always had it on the mic when he came. He just didn't know where to take his character exactly and was just finding his own, which is fine. I honestly can't tell you a scenario of someone who's just been horrid on the mic and then one day transformed into greatness.

And I pretty much view two categories of charisma which I just indicated.

I think if Shelton was around 'back in the day' he would be a multi-time world champion and basically an international superstar.

...

 

[LadyHotrod]

Back in the old days, wrestling was a bunch of technically sound wrestlers with only a slight emphasis put on character. Everyone was basically a good guy or a bad guy with no story behind anything, you just knew from their actions.

Now, less importance is put on actual in ring ability, it is more centered around who can get over with the fans. Which in turn, gives us semi-likable characters who can't do shit in the ring. We all know a really good wrestler is someone who can balance these things and be good at both.

Is focusing purely on charisma, instead of trying to turn out and push wrestlers who are decent in a technical sense, killing wrestling?

Is it easier to build a star out of someone who is charismatic but limited in the ring, then it is to take someone who is technically sound and make them likable?

I disagree with this.

Hogan was made out to be the big star, the big hero, and he was fucking shit in the ring. He had charisma, he drew people in, he got the pushes because he grabbed people's attention, but he was a shitty wrestler who could basically just throw a few punches and finish with a leg drop.


Wrestling is dying because the storylines are complete bullshit. They have no clue what direction to go in so they either throw random shit together that just doesn't work or do the same shit over and over and over again (Orton vs Cena 5000 times). They do a shitty job of developing the characters. They do dumb things that make no sense like pair up Miz with Big Show. They start doing something with Swagger and then suddenly just cut him off with no explaination storywise. Blue.


During the wrestling boom, it was heavy with grappling. Now, you get the high flyers and big risk takers. I still love the hell out of 80's wrestling but, back then, they had better storylines but a lot of the matches were meh. Now, they have better skills in the ring that aren't 90% grappling but the storylines are stupid and boring. There's a problem when I can call something in wrestling before it even happens.

 

[noumenon]

Back in the old days, wrestling was a bunch of technically sound wrestlers with only a slight emphasis put on character. Everyone was basically a good guy or a bad guy with no story behind anything, you just knew from their actions.

Now, less importance is put on actual in ring ability, it is more centered around who can get over with the fans. Which in turn, gives us semi-likable characters who can't do shit in the ring. We all know a really good wrestler is someone who can balance these things and be good at both.

Is focusing purely on charisma, instead of trying to turn out and push wrestlers who are decent in a technical sense, killing wrestling?

Is it easier to build a star out of someone who is charismatic but limited in the ring, then it is to take someone who is technically sound and make them likable?

Unless you were watching wrestling back in the 70's I really don't understand where you're coming from, and even so, you're about 40 years too late. Since the 80's (and honestly before that) wrestling has been about larger than life personas and characters. Have you ever seen a match from the early 80's and before? They're terrible. Most guys back there weren't good wrestler by todays standards and in fact would look like dated fools if they stepped into the ring today. They relied solely on huge personalities to get them over even more than today. Back then there was no such thing as a "spot monkey" because people weren't doing that kind of stuff. If anything, today more than ever, wrestling ability and flashy moves are enough to get you over more than anything.
Adding elaborate storylines is just another step of the evolution in the product, which was always about ENTERTAINMENT. Vince simply managed to hone that art down to perfection and realized that the actual match is almost secondary to setting up emotions leading into it. And especially today these guys need to be extremely talented in the ring, they need to convey a story with their match and sell the emotions they layed down while cutting their promos. So no, sports entertainment didn't kill wrestling. It's always been wrestling... Vince just put a copyright on the actual name.

 

[LadyHotrod]

^^ Exactly, which is basically what I said about Hogan (shit in the ring but had a great character). As much as I love Piper, had he not been awesome on the mic and as his character, he wouldn't get very far with just his in ring skills because he wasn't THAT great in the ring and he's not the only guy who was better at making a great character than actual wrestling.

Can you also clarify the part about not having any story behind it? I don't get what you are trying to say because a lot of things that happened had a story behind it so I don't know exactly what you are referring to.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

It all depends what you were watching in the 80's. WWF was terrible wrestling. NWA and the territories were BUILT on the pride of good, quality rasslin'. Sports entertainment was solely in the WWF until Crockett sold out to Turner and he decided to take rasslin, in the true southern form, to a bastardized version of what WWF was doing.

Go watch NWA or any of the territories, there weren't over the top personalities or muscle bound freaks or stupid storylines. People had gimmicks, Flair was the Nature Boy, Dusty was the "American Dream", Tully was a playboy, the Freebirds were some good ol' Southern Boys. Their gimmicks were down to earth, more human than cartoonish. And wrestling WAS the centerpiece. Broadways were the norm, good old bloody brawls, incredibly intense feuds that people bought into. It was all there, until Turner bought up Crockett and turned everything great about rasslin into WWF light. To answer the question, yes, Sports Entertainment did kill rasslin, because it still existed until WCW was formed.

 

[soulreaper545]

once the PG era is done and vince goes back to Wrestling and not entertainment everything should be fine

 

[MizMasta3000]

to add to enzo, go as far back to Mascaras or Gorgeous George

 

[Nation]

"Wrestling" hasn't been around since the Bruno Sammartino days. When the late 70's came around the shift to sports entertainment started.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

to add to enzo, go as far back to Mascaras or Gorgeous George

No. Gorgeous George was the first man to bring the entertainment aspect to wrestling.

People wanting "just wrestling" are lying. "Just wrestling" would be Lou Thesz and I'm certain not a single member of these boards could honestly say that would entertain them. Everyone is accustomed to an entertainment aspect of wrestling unless you're over the age of 60, simple as that. What people want is a relaxing of the sports entertainment aspect, they want more rasslin in their wrestling shows. And you don't need to go far back as the 60's-70's. You need to go back to the final Silver Age of wrestling, the southern style, the NWA. The Flairs, the Rhodes', the Von Erichs', the Tommy Richs, the Horsemen, The Rock and Roll Express, Gordon Solies, Tully Blanchards. Piledrivers on the concrete putting people out for weeks, knocking people out with cowboy boots, good ol fashioned bloddy brawls. True rasslin isn't that far back in wrestling memory, if you think otherwise you are either too young or just plain don't know.

 

[LadyHotrod]

once the PG era is done and vince goes back to Wrestling and not entertainment everything should be fine

Don't make me rant about people blaming the PG rating. Everyone knows how much I fucking hate when people say this shit.

 

[NinoBrown]

Wrestling died once the wrestlers started picking up microphones.

Rasslin died once NWA shutdown.

Sports Entertainment is like a hamburger. You can have the bun and the patty (wrestling) but the condiments (promos), the lettuce, tomato and cheese (high spots, techincal skill and character) really make it more than just a burger.