Roxxi deserves a damn push already

[Kaedon]

Kaedon, go ahead, have the "last word" if it helps you so much. You've proven that you know absolutely nothing about the topic at hand and have no interest in learning, so if you either don't see or choose to ignore how childish and immature you're being, arguing with you is not worth my time or anyone else's. People, stop humoring him; just ignore him and he'll go away.

translation,

"Roxxi didnt actually innovate anything, I believe doing x number of moves from different movesets makes you a great athlete and a great wrestler but I can not give any reasons why, and I can not logically debate with you but I wont admit it, so I am going to say youre attacking me personally and say you dont know what youre talking about, despite the fact that I am not able to debate your points."

Why yes, you are 100% Roxxi


WCWRules, you are 100% right as well, the KOs in TNA have gotten high ratings on their shows, sometimes the highest segment of the show, but that alone doesnt mean womens wrestling can main for one reason, it isnt constant. The argument could definately be made if it was more than one or two weeks consecutively. The WWE Diva Search was getting the higest ratings on Raw last time it was on, but that does NOT MEAN, that the focus of the show shouldnt be the big storyline on the show (and ideally the main title).

 

[Tsaalyo Phoenix]

WCWRules, you are 100% right as well, the KOs in TNA have gotten high ratings on their shows, sometimes the highest segment of the show, but that alone doesnt mean womens wrestling can main for one reason, it isnt constant. The argument could definately be made if it was more than one or two weeks consecutively. The WWE Diva Search was getting the higest ratings on Raw last time it was on, but that does NOT MEAN, that the focus of the show shouldnt be the big storyline on the show (and ideally the main title).

Triple H segments aren't ALWAYS the highest rated portions of a show. By your logic, he shouldn't main event.

The Knockouts are not ALWAYS the highest rated segments, but they ARE always of the highest segments. Sometimes they're at the top, sometimes second place, seldomly third. Key point is, they are ALWAYS at the top of the heap. The Knockouts draw, sorry.

 

[Kaedon]

Triple H segments aren't ALWAYS the highest rated portions of a show. By your logic, he shouldn't main event.

The Knockouts are not ALWAYS the highest rated segments, but they ARE always of the highest segments. Sometimes they're at the top, sometimes second place, seldomly third. Key point is, they are ALWAYS at the top of the heap. The Knockouts draw, sorry.

So much for ignoring me eh? I guess you will now only pick the arguments you actually think you can win as opposed to trying to explain your opinion. News flash, ITS NOT A CONTEST, its a discussion.

Did Roxxi ever sell out an arena anywhere? Not drawing 50 people to a ring surrounded by picnic tables, im talking about selling out the IMPACT zone? No, she hasnt. HHH carried the WWE for a few years. What major company has Roxxi or any of the TNA KOs or any of the WWE Divas ever carried?

And if women can draw, why isnt Shimmer in prime time on one of the big 4? Why did the GLOW fail HORRIBLY? Oh wait, I know why, WOMEN DONT DRAW LIKE MEN DO!!!

 

[Tsaalyo Phoenix]

So much for ignoring me eh? I guess you will now only pick the arguments you actually think you can win as opposed to trying to explain your opinion. News flash, ITS NOT A CONTEST, its a discussion.

I'm replying to this part of your post because you actually know what you're talking about here. You still trying to argue that Nikki didn't innovate anything proves that you have no idea what you're talking about in that department and have no interest to learn from people who do, either here or in the shoutbox yesterday from monkeystyle and soulpower, so i'm not going to waste my time replying to it. I thought I'd made that perfectly clear, but apparently I didn't, so there it is again. Heck, once more: i'm not wasting my time debating with you on a subject you know nothing about. And if you try to degenerate this into "flying fucks" and "no woman is main event material", I won't be wasting my time humoring you by responding to such childish, nonsensical garbage either. Be mature, grow up.

Did Roxxi ever sell out an arena anywhere? Not drawing 50 people to a ring surrounded by picnic tables, im talking about selling out the IMPACT zone? No, she hasnt. HHH carried the WWE for a few years. What major company has Roxxi or any of the TNA KOs or any of the WWE Divas ever carried?

Last I checked the iMPACT! zone is always full to capacity. Not just because of her, of course; tell me, has Triple H, SINGLE HANDEDLY, JUST by the promise of HIM AND ONLY HIM THERE, NOBODY ELSE, EXCEPT FOR HIS OPPONENT, sold out anything anywhere? Of course not. He's a main eventer, yes, but if Wrestlemania consisted of Triple H vs. Batista and that's it, it would not sell out. Triple H and whatever feud he's in DOES sell seats, yes, but he does not sell out anything. The promise of WWE's brand of professional wrestling and storylines is what does that trick. Out of the 15,000 people or whatever that fill an arena, very few of them are there simply because Triple H is fighting MVP that night, and for no other reason, therefore if he wasn't there neither would they be.

And if women can draw, why isnt Shimmer in prime time on one of the big 4?

For the same reasons ROH isn't.

Why did the GLOW fail HORRIBLY? Oh wait, I know why, WOMEN DONT DRAW LIKE MEN DO!!!

Women can draw just as well as men if they're booked properly. The fact that the Knockouts are either next to the highest rated segment or THE highest rated segment of any typical iMPACT! is proof. The fact that TNA has brought up the idea of a Knockouts brand to Spike TV and Spike is receptive of the idea is proof. The fact that PWI is now beginning to recognize the top female wrestlers is proof. We're in a transitional period for women's wrestling and professional wrestling as a whole. People don't care about braindead barbies in bikinis wrestling in jello anymore. They want to see girls beating the hell out of each other, and week after week of iMPACT! ratings confirm it. And if they are booked properly, they can draw just as well as the men; again reflected by any typical iMPACT! ratings breakdown. When the Knockouts main evented, they NEVER lost viewers, not once. In fact, the only time in recent memory that i've seen a Knockouts match lose viewers is back when Kong was beating down nameless jobbers, and that's not reflective of women's wrestling - that's reflective of the fact that nobody cares about monster vs. jobber squash matches.

 

[gashface]

Kaedon we've had this argument several times before, you have a different opinion to Roxxi, me and numerous others. I'm sure many agree with you too. It's pointless either of you arguing your point because neither one of you is either going to see through the other one's eyes.

 

[Kaedon]

I'm replying to this part of your post because you actually know what you're talking about here. You still trying to argue that Nikki didn't innovate anything proves that you have no idea what you're talking about in that department and have no interest to learn from people who do, either here or in the shoutbox yesterday from monkeystyle and soulpower, so i'm not going to waste my time replying to it. I thought I'd made that perfectly clear, but apparently I didn't, so there it is again. Heck, once more: i'm not wasting my time debating with you on a subject you know nothing about. And if you try to degenerate this into "flying fucks" and "no woman is main event material", I won't be wasting my time humoring you by responding to such childish, nonsensical garbage either. Be mature, grow up.

Roxxi reply when roxxi have comeback.

Last I checked the iMPACT! zone is always full to capacity. Not just because of her, of course; tell me, has Triple H, SINGLE HANDEDLY, JUST by the promise of HIM AND ONLY HIM THERE, NOBODY ELSE, EXCEPT FOR HIS OPPONENT, sold out anything anywhere? Of course not. He's a main eventer, yes, but if Wrestlemania consisted of Triple H vs. Batista and that's it, it would not sell out. Triple H and whatever feud he's in DOES sell seats, yes, but he does not sell out anything. The promise of WWE's brand of professional wrestling and storylines is what does that trick. Out of the 15,000 people or whatever that fill an arena, very few of them are there simply because Triple H is fighting MVP that night, and for no other reason, therefore if he wasn't there neither would they be.

Yeah im sure it has nothing to do with the free tickets that they give away to anyone who is on the lot.

For the same reasons ROH isn't.

Because it cant draw on a mainstream level in its current incarnation?

People don't care about braindead barbies in bikinis wrestling in jello anymore.

Which explains the lack of skimpy clothing on all women that are on TV. Oh wait....

Women can draw just as well as men if they're booked properly. The fact that the Knockouts are either next to the highest rated segment or THE highest rated segment of any typical iMPACT! is proof. The fact that TNA has brought up the idea of a Knockouts brand to Spike TV and Spike is receptive of the idea is proof. The fact that PWI is now beginning to recognize the top female wrestlers is proof. We're in a transitional period for women's wrestling and professional wrestling as a whole. People don't care about braindead barbies in bikinis wrestling in jello anymore. They want to see girls beating the hell out of each other, and week after week of iMPACT! ratings confirm it. And if they are booked properly, they can draw just as well as the men; again reflected by any typical iMPACT! ratings breakdown. When the Knockouts main evented, they NEVER lost viewers, not once. In fact, the only time in recent memory that i've seen a Knockouts match lose viewers is back when Kong was beating down nameless jobbers, and that's not reflective of women's wrestling - that's reflective of the fact that nobody cares about monster vs. jobber squash matches.

Well if TNA is making all this money, which they are, why arent they going through with an all womens show? Because you can ask anyone who knows anything about the wrestling business, and they will say that women, ALONE CAN NOT DRAW.

 

[monkeystyle]

Kaedon we've had this argument several times before, you have a different opinion to Roxxi, me and numerous others. I'm sure many agree with you too. It's pointless either of you arguing your point because neither one of you is either going to see through the other one's eyes.

But here is the thing. K-Man is clearly right. I would continue to make Roxxi look foolish too. Its good times.

 

[Tsaalyo Phoenix]

Yeah im sure it has nothing to do with the free tickets that they give away to anyone who is on the lot.

I had no idea this topic was about TNA's ticketing system, but ok. Yes, several people in an iMPACT! audience most likely aren't TNA fans. But let's flip it: if a person doesn't like professional wrestling, why would he take hours out of his stay in Orlando to watch it? People who go to the iMPACT! Zone are wrestling fans, and the ever increasing number of signs (including several i've seen for Roxxi) shows that more and more of them are in fact dedicated TNA fans who came to Orlando to watch and take pictures to put on Wikipedia.

Because it cant draw on a mainstream level in its current incarnation?

Or the lack of space on network schedules, the reluctance of networks to try to compete with as established a competition as the WWE especially considering that wrestling is in a slump while MMA is surging, the lack of big name support, the lack of adequate financial backing, the fact that so many of their stars have already been hired by TNA...

Which explains the lack of skimpy clothing on all women that are on TV. Oh wait....

Where are the Baywatch shows then, Kaedon? There aren't any. Most shows with female leads depict them as professionals, and sexuality is rarely, if ever addressed. And before you ask me to prove it, pick up your remote and channel surf for a while. And no, not in the porn channels.

Well if TNA is making all this money, which they are, why arent they going through with an all womens show? Because you can ask anyone who knows anything about the wrestling business, and they will say that women, ALONE CAN NOT DRAW.

No, because as open to the idea as Spike TV is, as they see the unchanging preponderance of the Knockouts at the top of the ratings ladder, there's just no space in the schedule right now. That's the same thing holding the Spin Cycle weekly show idea up. What, you think Carter can just walk into Spike TV, say "I want a two hour timeslot on Tuesday nights!", and the Spike just says "Ha! Sure! Same as iMPACT!, nine to eleven? And hell, Spin Cycle can be Monday nights at 8 pm to let you kick off the previews of iMPACT! and Knockouts!" No, that's not how it works.

But here is the thing. K-Man is clearly right. I would continue to make Roxxi look foolish too. Its good times.

I love you too, monkeystyle. Let's follow the Podcast chat room system's advice and get married.

 

[monkeystyle]

No, because as open to the idea as Spike TV is, as they see the unchanging preponderance of the Knockouts at the top of the ratings ladder, there's just no space in the schedule right now. That's the same thing holding the Spin Cycle weekly show idea up. What, you think Carter can just walk into Spike TV, say "I want a two hour timeslot on Tuesday nights!", and the Spike just says "Ha! Sure! Same as iMPACT!, nine to eleven? And hell, Spin Cycle can be Monday nights at 8 pm to let you kick off the previews of iMPACT! and Knockouts!" No, that's not how it works.

That is more or less irrelevant given that women do not draw. Ever. Period. There is not one instance where a woman has actually continually been able to bring a significant amount of viewers to the table.

 

[Tsaalyo Phoenix]

^

...he said, never having looked at TNA ratings breakdowns. Are they pulling out 4.0 ratings? No, of course not, TNA just doesn't have that kind of exposure. But out of all the people who actually know of TNA, more of them are watching the Knockouts than any other portion of a typical show, as detailed by the ratings. If they didn't draw, those segments would lose viewers. And as I said, the only time the Knockouts have lost viewers recently was back when Kong was squashing Ms. Nobody week after week.

 

[chessarmy]

Monkey, how exactly is Roxxi looking foolish? I think he's the one who is right, the TNA KNOCKOUTS have been a major draw for TNA. They are consistently pulling in the highest rated segments on iMPACT!. Whether or not Knockouts can draw by themselves we all can't argue about, because it hasn't even happened yet.

 

[Kaedon]

I had no idea this topic was about TNA's ticketing system, but ok. Yes, several people in an iMPACT! audience most likely aren't TNA fans. But let's flip it: if a person doesn't like professional wrestling, why would he take hours out of his stay in Orlando to watch it? People who go to the iMPACT! Zone are wrestling fans, and the ever increasing number of signs (including several i've seen for Roxxi) shows that more and more of them are in fact dedicated TNA fans who came to Orlando to watch and take pictures to put on Wikipedia.

If you didnt want me to point that out, perhaps you shouldnt have said the IZ is "always full"

Or the lack of space on network schedules, the reluctance of networks to try to compete with as established a competition as the WWE especially considering that wrestling is in a slump while MMA is surging, the lack of big name support, the lack of adequate financial backing, the fact that so many of their stars have already been hired by TNA...

So your logic is, there isnt room, and they dont want to go up against the establishment. I guess thats why there are no other cop/lawyer shows besides Law and Order, and there are no other medical shows besides ER. Oh wait....

Where are the Baywatch shows then, Kaedon? There aren't any. Most shows with female leads depict them as professionals, and sexuality is rarely, if ever addressed. And before you ask me to prove it, pick up your remote and channel surf for a while. And no, not in the porn channels.

Stacked
Burn Notice
CSI Miami
Two and a Half Men
Sex In The City
Lipstick Jungle
And every reality show that takes place outside in a warm climate a la Survivor and the like. Scantily clad women EVERYWHERE.

If sex doesnt sell why does every beer, deoderant, and Orbiz commercial have all ugly fat women on them. OH WAIT, THEY DONT!

 

[Tsaalyo Phoenix]

If you didnt want me to point that out, perhaps you shouldnt have said the IZ is "always full"

I've got no problem with you pointing it out and as you can tell I had no problem defending it, i'm just surprised that a moderator is so ready and willing to take a thread off topic to attempt to prove a point.

So your logic is, there isnt room, and they dont want to go up against the establishment. I guess thats why there are no other cop/lawyer shows besides Law and Order, and there are no other medical shows besides ER. Oh wait....

Law and Order isn't as popular as it used to be, hence the other shows that tried to break through. And if you'll notice, Canterbury's Law? Shark? Flopped bigtime. As for ER, that show couldn't be any less popular, and the shows that came to "compete", like House or Scrubs, are only similar in that they're in the medical field. The plots and premises are still entirely different, hence networks willing to take a shot at them. House is SIMILAR to EW, yes, but it also had star power in Hugh Laurie to convince FOX to give it a go. Star power, of course, being one of the other arguments I gave that you neglected to bring up.

Stacked
Burn Notice
CSI Miami
Two and a Half Men
Sex In The City
Lipstick Jungle
And every reality show that takes place outside in a warm climate a la Survivor and the like. Scantily clad women EVERYWHERE.

If sex doesnt sell why does every beer, deoderant, and Orbiz commercial have all ugly fat women on them. OH WAIT, THEY DONT!

Ok, i've never even HEARD of Burn Notice or Lipstick Jungle, which goes to show just how popular they are. CSI Miami doesn't hold a candle to the actual CSI, and the ratings prove it. Sex and the City is not only a chick show, it stopped production years ago. Two and a Half Men is a comedy that deals with adult humor - it is not bikini girls in jello fights. You're comparing a PG-rated sitcom that partially deals with adult situations to provokative women's wrestling. You're not even close. In fact, I can't speak for the two shows i've never heard of, but NONE of them are anything like bikini jello matches.

As for commercials, first of all I hope you don't find something sexual about Orbitz gum commercials, because if you do then you are seriously depraved. But besides that, tell me, how many products tried using sex in commercials and still flopped? Sex appeal may get your foot in the door, but if your product is crap, byebye.

And besides, why are we talking about the drawing ability of sexual women's matches by comparing them to Orbitz commercials and Two and a Half Men? If you want the REAL lowdown on how well it draws, look at the ratings breakdowns of Divas matches and compare them to the ratings breakdowns of Knockouts matches. Simple as that.

 

[Kaedon]

I've got no problem with you pointing it out and as you can tell I had no problem defending it, i'm just surprised that a moderator is so ready and willing to take a thread off topic to attempt to prove a point.

You brought up the fact that the IZ is full, and I proved to you it was irrelevant to what was going on.

Law and Order isn't as popular as it used to be, hence the other shows that tried to break through.

Yes, and there were no other shows JUST LIKE IT, that were on BEFORE. Idiot.

And if you'll notice, Canterbury's Law? Shark? Flopped bigtime.

And Judging Amy, The Closer, Raising The Bar are just three that have gone strong and/or are still doing so.

As for ER, that show couldn't be any less popular

While it isnt getting American Idol ratings anymore, its still popular. If a show doesnt get 28.9 in the ratings doenst mean its the shits. Its one of NBCs highest rated shows along with Law and Order.

and the shows that came to "compete", like House or Scrubs, are only similar in that they're in the medical field.

And an all female wrestling show would be similar in the same way, yet it wouldnt draw dick.

The plots and premises are still entirely different, hence networks willing to take a shot at them. House is SIMILAR to EW, yes, but it also had star power in Hugh Laurie to convince FOX to give it a go. Star power, of course, being one of the other arguments I gave that you neglected to bring up.

Yes, lets bring that up. What big womens wrestling STARS are there? Is Trish more popular than John Cena or Batista? Is Kong more popular than Kurt Angle and Samoa Joe?

Ok, i've never even HEARD of Burn Notice or Lipstick Jungle, which goes to show just how popular they are.

Yes because of YOU havent heard of it, it must be the shits. Burn Notice was the 5th highest rated show on cable last week. And it drew more viewers than Family Guy, The Simpsons, Prison Break, Big Brother, Kitchen Nightmare, the second half of Monday Night Football, Bones, and Monday Night Raw. But yes, you are correct, if YOU, Roxxi Leveaux Fanboy have not heard of it, IT SUCKS. I can not believe the oversight. A thousand pardons.

CSI Miami doesn't hold a candle to the actual CSI, and the ratings prove it.

CSI gets about 10 million viewers, and Miami gets about 7 and a half. While it is less, "cant hold a candle" implies a lot less than 2 and half or three million.

Sex and the City is not only a chick show, it stopped production years ago.

Yes, no man ever watched it.

Two and a Half Men is a comedy that deals with adult humor - it is not bikini girls in jello fights.

Where Charlie is a womanizer and fucking anything that moves. You said no one talks about sex. WRONG!!

As for commercials, first of all I hope you don't find something sexual about Orbitz gum commercials, because if you do then you are seriously depraved. But besides that, tell me, how many products tried using sex in commercials and still flopped? Sex appeal may get your foot in the door, but if your product is crap, byebye.

Why dont you answer my question, is sex used a lot or not in commercials? Yea, the product has to sell, but the easiest /cheapest emotional connection is "hot chick". WHICH IS WHY SEX DOESNT SELL IN AND OF ITSELF. A commercial is 30 seconds. Not a whole hour of programming.

 

[Tsaalyo Phoenix]

You brought up the fact that the IZ is full, and I proved to you it was irrelevant to what was going on.

You asked if the Knockouts fill the IZ. I answered, and gave a counterpoint that you have yet to address.

Yes, and there were no other shows JUST LIKE IT, that were on BEFORE. Idiot.

You're saying that there were legal shows on the air in the past? Okay, I know that, now what exactly is your point? I'm saying that the airwaves are already full NOW, not that they were at some point in the past. Networks are weary about taking on wrestling based on the declining popularity coupled with the fact that we've already seen a multimillion dollar company go bankrupt at a peak of wrestling's popularity. I've yet to see a miltimillion dollar legal drama go belly up, but then, i've never seen a legal drama that cost that much to begin with. You're comparing two things that couldn't be any more different in genre or in how networks treat them.

And Judging Amy, The Closer, Raising The Bar are just three that have gone strong and/or are still doing so.

See above. You just proved that when a market is full, new shows like Shark and Canterbury's Law can't survive more than one season. Plus, the second half of above, just paste it here.

While it isnt getting American Idol ratings anymore, its still popular. If a show doesnt get 28.9 in the ratings doenst mean its the shits. Its one of NBCs highest rated shows along with Law and Order.

This is addressed later in the post, as the "competition" is really of different genres. ROH brings nothing that WWE and TNA don't give us already, so networks don't want to take that big a risk, for reasons outlined, once again, above.

And an all female wrestling show would be similar in the same way, yet it wouldnt draw dick.

Kaedon, christ, LOOK AT THE RATINGS.

Yes, lets bring that up. What big womens wrestling STARS are there? Is Trish more popular than John Cena or Batista? Is Kong more popular than Kurt Angle and Samoa Joe?

Kong, perhaps not more popular, but her segments DO tend to draw more, which you'd know if you looked at the ratings. Besides, a Knockouts brand's big star power? TNA. They've already got their foot in the network's door, they've got financial backing, they've got the high ratings to back them up, and they offer something fresh and new to the network that can't be seen anywhere else, which is why Spike is receptive of the idea.

Yes because of YOU havent heard of it, it must be the shits. Burn Notice was the 5th highest rated show on cable last week. And it drew more viewers than Family Guy, The Simpsons, Prison Break, Big Brother, Kitchen Nightmare, the second half of Monday Night Football, Bones, and Monday Night Raw. But yes, you are correct, if YOU, Roxxi Leveaux Fanboy have not heard of it, IT SUCKS. I can not believe the oversight. A thousand pardons.

Well i'm not going to argue about something I know nothing about, unlike you, but I did do some reading and i'm getting that this show is about a covert ops guy? Doesn't sound anything like sexualized women's wrestling to me, which as you'd know if you looked at the ratings, does not draw. Knockouts, however, do.

CSI gets about 10 million viewers, and Miami gets about 7 and a half. While it is less, "cant hold a candle" implies a lot less than 2 and half or three million.

See above.

Yes, no man ever watched it.

Sex and the City was primarily marketed towards women, unless you're a fan of designer boots and handbags, And again, see above.

Where Charlie is a womanizer and fucking anything that moves. You said no one talks about sex. WRONG!!

I do watch this show regularly, but nonetheless, see above.

Why dont you answer my question, is sex used a lot or not in commercials? Yea, the product has to sell, but the easiest /cheapest emotional connection is "hot chick". WHICH IS WHY SEX DOESNT SELL IN AND OF ITSELF. A commercial is 30 seconds. Not a whole hour of programming.

Yes, exactly, sex doesn't sell in and of itself. Thank you. That's why sexualized women's wrestling tanks in the ratings, while the Knockouts continue to dominate the iMPACT! ratings week after week. That was the whole point of this discussion before you started taking us on tangeants involving a British girl with clean teeth selling gum to a guy buried in the sand, and FOX sitcoms.

Kaedon, for the last time, look at the damn ratings. Stop spouting off and actually do some research. You might not like the Knockouts, and good for you, but the ratings prove that the majority of people do. It's as simple as that.