Raw 17/01/11 Discussion - Cena vs. Punk

[Luke Flywalker]

^They DONT react like anything to Cena or Taker,, we've already established that. Shit, the last few times Rock or Austin made an appearance, they got louder reactions than anyone but it still wasn't anywhere near the level of their days...

 

[Kaedon]

No, you contend they don't get the same reaction, just like you contend Miz is so over. Audible noise is measurable, I don't know what you're hearing when it comes to Miz, or what you're NOT hearing when it comes to Cena and Taker (the two most over guys in the business at this point). You don't want to hear it because that would prove that this jobber is actually just a midcarder in a main event spot.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

No, you contend they don't get the same reaction, just like you contend Miz is so over. Audible noise is measurable, I don't know what you're hearing when it comes to Miz, or what you're NOT hearing when it comes to Cena and Taker (the two most over guys in the business at this point). You don't want to hear it because that would prove that this jobber is actually just a midcarder in a main event spot.

You're actually being told by all but maybe one or two who make up this few who can't stand Miz, that Miz does in fact, get a huge reaction from the crowd. YOU don't want to hear it because that would prove that this main eventer is more than just a jobbing midcarder you think he is...

 

[Kaedon]

No, I'm being told that I need to "give miz more time" and that he's "the best choice out of the young guys". Giving in to the fact that he's not as over as the true top stars of the company ALONG WITH his mediocre crowd reaction is proof he's not ready. He's not as good as Taker, he's not as good as Cena, he's not as good as HHH, he's not as good as Orton, he's not as good as Edge, he's not as good as Rey, he's not as good as Punk; him being better than the rest is negotiable, but if you aren't as over as those guys, you don't deserve the title.

 

[Airfixx]

Right, it's the crowd's fault that Miz doesn't draw a big enough reaction. They react like that to Cena, to Taker, why not to Miz if he's so over?

You're either full of shit, stupid or both if you think Cena & Taker get reactions like Rock & Austin did when wrestling itself was hot/hip/etc. as fuck in the late 90's. Similarly so, if you can't comprehend that the enthusiasm for wrestling IN GENERAL in that era was at a higher level than it had or will probably ever be again and thus you had sell-out crowds eating up the majority of the stuff - no matter how good or bad - that WWE, WCW & ECW chose to throw at them.

Conversely, FFWD another 10-15 years or so and you've got a significant amount of wrestling fans that are jaded thanks to:

*Having seen most angles before.
*The exposure of the business that the internet brough about.
*Crowd sizes.
*Fan demographics.
*The nature of the individual angles or the product itself.


You're deluded if you don't think there is more at play than just the worker themselves when comparing a pop of today from that of 15 years ago. There are so many more variables to consider if you would just pull your head out of your Miz-hating ass for just a second.

 

[Kaedon]

The fans change along with the business. As the pendulum swings, the demo of the business (or the WWE at least) changes. Are you telling me kids and teens can't be as loud as 20 something guys? Bullshit. A great character is a great character period, and if he's "the best" he will evoke an amazing emotional response pretty much wherever he or she goes.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

^It's not that they CAN'T, it's that they DON'T! People don't care to get as excited about wrestling as they once did. There was a time when Brian Christopher was over with the crowd far more than ANY midcarder the WWE has had in the last 5 years... and his reaction from the crowd was NOWHERE... ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE close to anything the main event scene had going for them at that time.

 

[CMS]

It's so funny how WWE is making Mason Ryan be Batista. We all know he looks like him, but so does Darren Young to John Cena, and we they didnt have Young start wearing shorts and purple shirts.

Not only did Ryan look like batista, but they had him dress like Batista use. Awesome shit. I am a mark for Ryan already.


.....god damn I miss Batista.

 

[seX-Power]

we all miss batista deep down

 

[Lady Redfield]

No, Punk was too busy jobbing to a ten year old kid. See that scuffing around his eye? A ten year old kid did that to him at a house show or something. It was reported on the Observer, but I'm pretty sure once it makes it as an exclusive for the wrestling lounge or wrestlingnews.com someone will post it. But LMAO at Punk getting capped on by a kid.

hahaha, really?? I was wondering what the fuck happened.....wow, I don't even know what to say....

 

[Luke Flywalker]

http://www.impactwrestling.com/Content.aspx?ID=35555

 

[Beer]

the new guy is from wales.

 

[Airfixx]

The fans change along with the business. As the pendulum swings, the demo of the business (or the WWE at least) changes. Are you telling me kids and teens can't be as loud as 20 something guys?

No, I'm saying they and the non-kid demographic aren't COLLECTIVELY inspired to be and that the reasons for this can't be exclusively pinned onto the worker otherwise Cena or any other guy you choose to mention from the current roster would be getting reactions on the scale that Rock or Austin did in the late 90's... Which, regardless of any one-off You-tube clips you care to pluck out of your arese, they don't.

A great character is a great character period, and if he's "the best" he will evoke an amazing emotional response pretty much wherever he or she goes.

Rubbish! ....Theoretically, what if your talking the best of a bad bunch?

By your logic, in the KWF ( : P ) it would appear you wouldn't even have a champ unless they poopped a crowd like the best of all time (which NO-ONE on the current WWE roster does).


For fucks sake wake up and admit that (for one of many examples) in the PG-era Austin would probably still be The Ringmaster and thus would not have connected with all those teens/early 20's that love beer, wanted to tell every other person they came accross to "kiss [their] ass" or dreamed of beating the fuck out of their bosses.



Like I said... Full fo shit, ignorant or both.