No More Happy Endings - Once Upon a Time Mafia Game Thread

[John McHenry]

Like I stated prior my only saying Ekko was because Abi directly asked who I'd be comfortable with last night catching up that was my choice. Reading back through now. Pendex has me more scum it's possible he's super aggressive town but it reads scum to me. He picks a target is unrelenting in that target and then just kinda stops and says oh well okay and picks a new target. It's not a discussion or trying to gauge it's attacks and when nobody jumps on the wagon with him he relents and finds someone else. Seems very wolf trying to get a train going.

Find Phenom jumping in on Ekko after every chastising me for mentioning him a little odd.


Vote Lynch Pendex.

 

[Lethal]

I see Jeff around liking posts. Maybe we can talk things through and he has a reads list to look at? @Silent Bite

 

[Pendex]

Like I stated prior my only saying Ekko was because Abi directly asked who I'd be comfortable with last night catching up that was my choice. Reading back through now. Pendex has me more scum it's possible he's super aggressive town but it reads scum to me. He picks a target is unrelenting in that target and then just kinda stops and says oh well okay and picks a new target. It's not a discussion or trying to gauge it's attacks and when nobody jumps on the wagon with him he relents and finds someone else. Seems very wolf trying to get a train going.

Find Phenom jumping in on Ekko after every chastising me for mentioning him a little odd.


Vote Lynch Pendex.

Where have I picked a new target? What?

 

[Pendex]

I just don't see how anyone comes away with that conclusion. I had one extended discussion and after that ran its course I left it. You are predicating my behaviour on something I have not done.

 

[Comrade Khan]

I'm lurkin on my phone yeh. Ill work on a reas list. Last two votes are pretty as well

 

[Pendex]

Also dislike the "could be aggressive town but reads as scum". You have not asked anyone familiar with me how I play, which is fine, I don't care for defending myself on meta, but I feel like this is very transparently sitting on the fence. I don't mind those starting the wagon, those joining it I do, and so far we've had "gut" and whatever this is.

 

[Pendex]

He picks a target is unrelenting in that target and then just kinda stops and says oh well okay and picks a new target. It's not a discussion or trying to gauge it's attacks and when nobody jumps on the wagon with him he relents and finds someone else.

This part is what I need evidencing really. Who is the "someone else"? I was asked where I'm going next and I explicitly said "not sure".

 

[CakeWalker]

Theory E - looking at those who took exception to me leaving Ekko of my Magnificent Seven list.

The Sky Dossier
​

Good morning everyone

Vote Shade

for being in the player list twice

Nothing wrong with a random vote.

Okay I'm going to chalk this up to Lethal being miserable. Especially given how hard he doubles down in the next pages, he's good enough to know that this is reflecting badly on him so it's got to be legit

Ultimately NAI but I'd lean town as I don't feel he'd let himself attract heat if he wasn't

No need for Sky to say anything like this if they were mafia with Lethal.

(how long until someone accuses me of buddying lol)

Strange comment

Then there are interactions in regards to Jeff vs. Lethal - which I don't think is important at all.

Not a huge fan of Juice tbh, quite fence-sitty with the 3 theories

Considering I offered three theories. If they all agreed with each other, they wouldn't be three different theories.

This is the first thing that doesn't make sense.

did you actually expect her to take a hard stance on any of those theories?

No but at least Juice should clarify which is the main working theory and which two are possibilities. If not, it's just indiscriminate sus on everyone

In this answer Sky says no - but basically changes their answer to yes by the end of just one line of text.

This looks like putting words in Juice's mouth

she agreed lol

looks like Sky is fully reading the game here - perhaps they are too busy posting in the mafia chat or they are just busy doing something else entirely. Not enough yet to make a bold hard statement on the matter.

This trope is boring tbh

Was a referal to SA voting Sky

Let's talk something non-boring

What is your current main theory at the moment regarding Lethal? Jeff? Mando? Abigail? T-Pein? Pick any number of them

Upon realization - don't include themselves or Tommy on the list at this point in the game. Taking a leaf out of Tommy's book here.

Let's answer that by looking through the 3 options:

1. Mafia is prolonging the dumb Lethal/Jeff argument in order to harm town - subtle bit of shade on everyone involved in the argument, implying that one or more of Lethal/Jeff/myself is scum so town will vote among us and probably hit at least 2/3 town.
2. Lethal is trying to get voted up - we don't benefit from Jester spec at this early stage, it's just a distraction.
3. This is all just town/town D1 fodder - obvious ass coverage "there could be, or there could not be", trying to seem noncommittal for later.

All 3 options, though discussion points they may be, are inherently non-productive (and serve to further scum's cause in the first two cases), and not distinguishing between them is somehow worse than committing to one of them. That's the full explanation

I feel Theory A, B and C covers all bases. I still don't understand why this is of great annoyance to you. It also seems that despite your answer to Jeff earlier - you want a hard stance from your theories.

So while the readbackers are reading back, time to put my money where my mouth is

Vote Juice

At the time this made no sense to me - still doesn't really.

Not saying Juice/Ekko is nailed on scum/scum but may be something to consider depending how Juice flips

Already talking about information that would be provided from my flip. Without any sort of wagon in place - another strange comment.

What is the functional difference between someone who's made zero posts and someone who's made one post to check in and done nothing else (as some on your list have)?

Also doesn't understand - but neither did Tommy so its not a big deal.

You realise zero posts doesn't clear anyone from hiding in scum chat?

Make a post about something I didn't even say - putting words into someone's mouth isn't a good look in mafia.

I've got to say it's a very interesting view of the game I'm beginning to have since Jeff and now Pendex have been involved in defending my main scum read in Juice

At this point in the game - I've been your only potential focus. If anyone says anything, that doesn't agree with your stance - I can see you scum reading them.

You've done two things in the space of 26 posts. One was the three theories, which I've gone into. The second is that post where you shaded people with low posts just for having low posts. Even setting aside the issue of excluding Ekko, this is just trying to get pressure anywhere no matter what and isn't towny

Looking at this now. The only thing Sky has done is tunnel me - although with no real volume.

I'm pretty sure even you don't understand what you're doing most of the time

Well this is something we can agree upon at least. Some common ground in this game.

Nah voting up T-Pein is a waste, should prob just be vigged

If Sky is mafia. Suggestion is T-Pein is actually town here.

It's really not a matter of how much power Juice has, it's just a question of intentions

As for the last question I think I made it clear in the second post I quoted, it feels like trying to divert pressure and a cheap attempt to get an inactive townie out of the way

This viewpoint only makes sense - if I have then started to make a case for voting for one person in the Magnificent Seven

So, completely content-free. Got it

Ironically - if you aren't talking about me. You would have no content at alll.

More nonspecific shading. This is getting silly

Are you literally incapable of giving a specific genuine read

Taking exception that I was going to go a deep dive. SMH

-----

And then we reach my intention for starting Theory E - which means posts after, might be made to change my viewpoint.

At this point - at this point Sky is just tunneling me and doesn't seem to have any real view on anyone else. At this point in the game I don't know if sky is actually town or mafia at this point.

Status:

 

[CakeWalker]

Theory E - looking at those who took exception to me leaving Ekko of my Magnificent Seven list.

The Mandalorian Dossier
​

As for activity, it’s a 48 hour phase. Not much happening in the first few hours due to people just checking in or in some cases not having seen that the game has started doesn’t seem like a massive deal to me.

Very different story if we’re sitting here at this time tomorrow with the same level of activity.

​

First real post and is very level headed approach to the game
​

In no way, shape or form was Tommy suggesting anything in this particular game we’re playing right now has been toxic. He even said ‘remain’, indicating that he felt it had been positive thus far.

A defensive position of another player - I don't think there is anything wrong with that. But other players like to cling on to these sort of post quite often.

I get what you’re saying from your POV about the game dragging, whilst I may not see it as that big of a deal given how much time we’re working with, I see where you’re coming from.

The last sentence is what I was getting at with the question. I wanted to understand why there was such a need to cut to the chase and you’ve explained that here.

I like this a lot - notices Lethal's desire to exit from random to serious.

I was looking for what you wanted to me to get back to you on and found it. I’m a few pages behind (on page 7).

I don’t think anyone has done particularly anything to ping me in any direction at the moment. Sky’s joke vote is what it was and I would have probably reacted the same as they did if someone kicked off about it in the manner that Lethal did.

You did make a post about the possibility of Lethal trying to provoke a reaction out of you specifically? Do you still feel that way?

For Tommy, I don’t think he’s done too much but has been around and involved which is obviously a good thing.

Mandalorian hasn't taken a hard stance yet either. Some people good accuse him of fence sitting. Sort of just read them, how I see myself in this game. Not yet prepared to take a hard stance.

Oh, have as much fun as you want man. Don’t let me get in the way of that.

It was a genuine question. Playing with people I don’t know very well can mean that attempts at humour when not obvious can fly over my head.

I think you do have to concede that coming in blind and throwing a vote down is going to throw eyes in your direction though?

I also like this post.

I’m interested to explore this a bit more. I saw you said that it was the lack of favouring one option over the others that prompted you to read it as Juice sitting on the fence.

My view of it was that Juice was actually giving us a lot to talk through and had the discussion veered onto discussing the options we could have gotten some decent stuff out of it.

Is there no credit from you for actually producing the options and extra discussion points, even though Juice didn’t elaborate or rank them in order of probability?

i also like this one.

This doesn’t account for people that have seen the game has started and chosen to ignore it for whatever reason.

A focus on what I didn't say. Rather than what I did.

But they could still be active and engaging in the game in the mafia chat?

Do you buy Juice’s reasoning for leaving Ekko off?

I buy it because they most likely just grabbed all the names that had less posts than the host and listed them all out. If Ekko has 0 posts, he wouldn't be there anyway.

This is however not the reason I left Ekko off the list - please refer to the Sandwich analogy.

I believe I explained my reasoning in that post. The purpose mostly was for discussion (my read was genuine, but soft), but the way you elected to not interact with it at all until someone else defended it makes me more confident in it. Instead, you decided to engage in whether a player being left off a fairly weak list was significant of anything. Do you see my issue here?

I think you’ve missed out a large chunk of my involvement. You’re acting as if I said that the joke vote was worth nothing and then didn’t say anything until the Juice list thing happened.

You’ve completely ignored my asking for reads and thoughts from people and omitted that when summarising my involvement in the game thus far.

As for the reasons you have given;

- The post you are referring to was my second in the game, the first being the first post since the game started. I had not checked the thread between making those posts up until that point so I made the comment about the joke vote when I saw it. The fact that other people had already commented to defend it was merely coincidental and there was nothing I could have done about that.

- I was not the only person discussing the omission of Ekko from Juice’s list of inactives, nor was I the one to bring it up in the first place. In fact I even agreed that your reasoning for Ekko not being on there was logical.

So in summary, I don’t see it at all.

Brings attention to Tommy and Sky - without actually name dropping.

And then shows agreement with Pendex - despite me clarifying before that isn't why Ekoo was ommitted.

Call it retaliatory if you want.

Vote: Pendex

Purposeful omissions and recreations to push an extremely weak agenda. That’s scum if I’ve ever seen it.

This seems very reactionary - and doesn't match their previous approach.

Why would I vote for you when I’ve got a stronger case on Pendex?

Because your vote is on Sky because of the comments towards Juice, is it not? That’s more substantial than what Pendex has put out on me.

Strange engagement here seems off.

And whether Pein is trolling or not I’m genuinely not sure because I fail to see how anyone can look at the argument that Pendex has put up and is able to go along with it.

I mean - if you are voting for someone. Then you would have to hold this viewpoint anyway.

For you to present what you have and misquote me - not misinterpret- several times to now say that you just took something the wrong way doesn’t compute with me.

You at no point asked me what I meant by it or if there was any subtext to it, because if you did I would have simply said what I’ve been saying all along.

You recreated the post more than once to make it fit more into what you were trying to push forward whilst still saying that it was weak reasoning. If it was weak and you knew it was, why embellish it and omit other parts of my involvement in the game? What was the agenda there?

At this point Pendex and Mando both on same scum team also seems unlikely.

Again, I said I’d never played with Sky. Nothing about knowing them or knowing how they play. What I said is implicit that I don’t know them or how they play, of course, but the main point of the post was to say that I agreed with the discourse that the vote was clearly a joke, which everyone (apart from Lethal at the time) agreed with.

I think we are at an impasse on your interpretation of that post, and your treatment of it. When you say things like “he said X”, that’s not an expression of you interpretation of the post. That’s you quoting what I said, which you did not several times.

Notwithstanding, none of this explains away why you said that I waited for someone else to comment on it before commenting myself. I explained the timings of my posts which you’ve not commented on.

You also have not discussed any of my play or posts in between the post you initially quoted any my input on the Juice list. This is relevant as at one point you presented it as such that was my only involvement in the game.

At the moment I feel like you are backtracking on what you were initially putting out there. You initial reasoning was weak to your admission but why then did you add on the aforementioned as a means to justify it when challenged?

Also at no point did you ask me what I meant. My initial defence when I first dignified this with a response explaining what I meant after you misquoted.

Keeps mentioning they've never played with Sky before. Are they trying to get a subliminal link that isn't even real? I'm confused.

My viewpoint is that the misquoting etc is misdirecting people to view me in a certain light. You seem like an intelligent person (apologies if that comes across as patronising, it is intended as a compliment) so the only explanation I’ve got is that you’re doing it for nefarious means.

I’ve seen it done in mafia games before and I’ve done it myself as mafia before. You pick a small and insignificant point as a starting block and build from there.

Mhmmmm.


-----

And then we reach my intention for starting Theory E - which means posts after, might be made to change my viewpoint.

At this point - at this point Mando just comes off as very townie to me as well. Although, no where near as much as Tommy.

Status:

 

[CakeWalker]

Upon those dossier though - something did rub my interest. Also UNVOTE now

 

[CakeWalker]

Oh bugger this is what I get for sleeping in.

Yes, looking back and brushing through most of this with an outsider perspective, Sky's vote was obviously nonsense and a joke since it was in the fluff phase and prefaced by Sky joking around with the person she voted for.

What I don't agree with is Lethal's way of going about calling it out since I feel like if it was anyone else making that vote, Lethal likely would not have reacted as strongly, if at all. I could be wrong of course, but it felt to me like perhaps the lad slightly overreacted to it. Which leads me to think he's just town for the moment for this aggressiveness.

Jeff is pretty Null though as it feels like he's just getting pulled further into an argument he doesn't really want to be part of. And his posts don't make me lean one way or another, just classic agitation.

Maybe the detective bit reminded him a lot of himself

You know what makes Jeff/Lethal even worse is I initially had planned to vote Jeff immediately just because but now I can't do that without it being construed as sus on him.

Ehhhh, I mean you still could have just asked Juice yourself if you were curious.

I'm pretty comfortable with Sky at the moment, I'd say

The third theory is probably the most plausible so the question is who would be perpetuating the other two the most, right?

Just go with your gut and mostly just pick who you think is not really playing with everyone's interest in mind. The name of the game is accusing people you don't feel good about. The rest comes naturally. You got this, I believe in you.

Or, you could do what I've mostly adopted, focus on finding people you feel good about and go from there.

Tbh I like Jeff for the most part, don't think he's actually done anything particularly scummy and not really interested in going back to the Lethal/Jeff thing.

That said, the Juice thing is pretty interesting but I think it doesn't do great to dwell entirely on what form of language she used in one of her posts where she was positing the idea a group of folk could be scummy.

That said, unless my memory fails me, I thought Ekko wanted to be a rep at most. Maybe something changed behind the scenes but I'm not really gonna get into that kind of spec. We'll know soon enough if Ekko posts.

Btw yeah Shade's double name has been removed from the OP, so yes, we can confirm it was just a mod snafu.

So Lethal's whole deal is kinda moot now too.

All of these posts just come off as filler to me - and don't actually bring anything to the game at all. It makes me curious - why Barry want to coast in this game.

 

[John McHenry]

This part is what I need evidencing really. Who is the "someone else"? I was asked where I'm going next and I explicitly said "not sure".

You come in asking questions of Tommy, rereading they come off as more inquiring about how we handle things around here. Meh to target 1 I'll give you that one.

You vote Mando because he dismissed what everyone has taken as a joke vote. You also suggest that Jeff and Mando are scum together. 1 & 2

You do let the Jeff shade just linger and target Mando most of the time. But again the original targeting of Mando was weak.

That said i'll say I may have jumped the gun on Pendex.

Unvote Pendex

Because I've noticed that while everyone has acknoleged Sky's vote initially as a joke, Sky relented and has gone back after Juice several times and I think the Sky/Juice situation gives us more info. Sky seems the aggresor here and I don'tsee why Juice was the target again initially it seemed like a joke post but then later on Sky sticks with it even after unvoting claiming it was a joke just keeps going after Juice.

Vote Sky

 

[Comrade Khan]

early town bros tbh.

Gacy
Pendex
Sky
T-Pein™
Mandalorian
Lethal Jade
John McHenry
People's Wang
Cereal Killer
The Grimch
Sister Abigail
Silent Bite
Turanga Leela
PHEN0M
Baldrick
Shade
Tommy Bedlam
Ekkologix

Ill deep dive into a few more people once I have a bit more time

 

[CakeWalker]

I don't want to really come off as defensive of Juice, but as I said in one of my earlier posts, I don't think you're going to gain much from analyzing that deeply into her posts. Juice is not the most loquacious gal and her posts tend to only make sense to her at times.

I feel like most of the time it's better to take what she says at face value unless it's something like info.

Oh no no, I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from reading Juice any way. I'm just saying discretion on what you push Juice for is probably the better part of valor.

Come to the defense of one player that doesn't play normally strats.

Rule 1 of playing with T-Pain. It'd excruciating and like pulling teeth. It's why I rarely ever listen to a word he says.

Shooting T-Pein would just be a waste of a bullet rn tbh

I can never read him just because his posts are so insane.

But dismisses another who also has a record for play strange strats.

Weird.

 

[CakeWalker]

Hahaha well at least we're in agreement.

If I could segue back btw to what I meant by usually taking Juice's posts at face value, what I tend to mean is, in my opinion, she has a tendency to be honest as either alignment, which is why asking for further clarification or deep diving her posts usually doesn't yield many results. She is easily caught out on usage and information though and that's when I recommend pouncing on her. She will defend herself adamantly and with reckless abandon otherwise.

She also has a tendency to be a lone wolf as scum. It's better overall to just wait for her to claim some usage or role rather than comb through her posts because they'll always be a mess as either alignment.

This has honestly been my entire experience with her. Feel free to push her for a claim though, that I'm not gonna really dissuade people from anymore.

This feels like you are trying to pocket me.

I do think you are coasting in this game though - and I actually think you are scum here playing a very calculated game.

VOTE: Grim