New Japan Pro-Wrestling General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Forrest OAKADA
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Well, for starters, NJ tournaments always have upsets like this one. I don't think it hurts Kenny. Secondly and most importantly, they're doing a storyline with the guy. He was on top of the world, failed at the Dome, and even taking a month off he still failed again. This is surely building towards him eventually winning the belt (probably from Okada) at Dominion or something like that. They're taking it slow and doing something interesting in the middle instead of treading water. Thirdly, Ishii is the fucking man.
Now, sure, they could've taken another direction, but I like this one better myself.
Technically, they already did the same storyline with Okada losing at the Dome and then again at the Cup against Fale. I just find it weird that after all the buzz the main event created for Omega, all around the world, after all those rumours surrounding the Royal Rumble, he would lose on his return to NJPW (Proper NJPW, not Honor Rising). I really like Ishii, and I am used to this Gedo-ish booking where he shakes up things in the first nights of the tournaments but I just believe it was missing the opportunity of capitalizing all the buzz Omega had at the moment.
They did, although recycling a storyline from two years ago when it is that generic isn't really an issue.
The point about not pushing Omega immediately is totally valid. Most of the recent gaijin subscribers from WK must've stayed (or signed up to begin with) due to Omega. I'm sure that's true. But the thing is Gedo isn't really the guy to change his long-term booking plans on the fly like that unless he's forced to. If he has Omega going over Okada at Dominion or the US shows, that's when it's going to happen. That has pros and cons. I could see new fans being somewhat turned off by this as they are not used to NJ booking yet, but hey, I'll take that over plans changing every show any day.
If one is worried about NJPW's success in the US (I'm not sure how worried about that I am), he can only hope that these fans (a very big part of which I assume bury WWE for not having long-term booking) are patient enough and that they wait for the thing to play through before complaining about Omega being buried. I mean, in this case it's not even that hard to pick up on because Omega's tantrum at the end of the match made things very clear.
It's the cup. Tournaments are the perfect time to do an upset. It also protects them from running Shibata/Omega which is a match they want to save until a bigger show.
And Ishii is big enough a name where him beating Kenny is not THAT odd. Would have been different if it had been Juice or Fale or old man Nagata.
ok starting on night 2 so some quick thoughts...
I'm proud to be the most positive person in the world on Yuji Nagata vs Tanga Roa. As someone who hasn't seen much New Japan it was interesting to see Blue Justice out of the NEVER division and see that he's pretty damn solid in the ring. As this was basically a showcase for him suplexing Roa around the ring this was enjoyable. Most were upset about the performance of the former Camacho and... well, what else did you expect at this point
Toru Yano vs Tama Tonga... is this the norm for Yano matches? Seems like a signature spot comedy guy. Was amused at Tonga playing the savage falling for the tricks and all. But maybe his matches get to be a little more interesting with stronger opponents?
Elgin and Fale was about as good as it could have been. Boy can I do without the Bullet Club on PPV. Fale is terrible, and the story of Elgin getting flurries of offense before trying a power move and getting cut off made the first sentence a thing... but then after a couple of German Suplex attempts, Elgin FINALLY hit one... just to get speared, spiked, and pinned. Cool
I've NEVER seen anything like EVIL vs Tanahashi... You've got a guy who's playing a well-established role of "Veteran whose time on top is up and is ready to put over younger talent", three ref bumps, two strikes with a foreign object... yet STILL EVIL came across looking like a damn star. Hiroshi Tanahashi is AWESOME. I'm sure the live crowd played a big role in this getting over as well as it did but the performers got this story over really well... It feels to me that the story of Tanahashi is that at his age, he's at 90% of his former self. Which is good enough to beat Tama Tonga but just falling short of Tetsuya Naito. That's.... really effective in the hands of the ace.
I'm proud to be the most positive person in the world on Yuji Nagata vs Tanga Roa. As someone who hasn't seen much New Japan it was interesting to see Blue Justice out of the NEVER division and see that he's pretty damn solid in the ring. As this was basically a showcase for him suplexing Roa around the ring this was enjoyable. Most were upset about the performance of the former Camacho and... well, what else did you expect at this point
Toru Yano vs Tama Tonga... is this the norm for Yano matches? Seems like a signature spot comedy guy. Was amused at Tonga playing the savage falling for the tricks and all. But maybe his matches get to be a little more interesting with stronger opponents?
Elgin and Fale was about as good as it could have been. Boy can I do without the Bullet Club on PPV. Fale is terrible, and the story of Elgin getting flurries of offense before trying a power move and getting cut off made the first sentence a thing... but then after a couple of German Suplex attempts, Elgin FINALLY hit one... just to get speared, spiked, and pinned. Cool
I've NEVER seen anything like EVIL vs Tanahashi... You've got a guy who's playing a well-established role of "Veteran whose time on top is up and is ready to put over younger talent", three ref bumps, two strikes with a foreign object... yet STILL EVIL came across looking like a damn star. Hiroshi Tanahashi is AWESOME. I'm sure the live crowd played a big role in this getting over as well as it did but the performers got this story over really well... It feels to me that the story of Tanahashi is that at his age, he's at 90% of his former self. Which is good enough to beat Tama Tonga but just falling short of Tetsuya Naito. That's.... really effective in the hands of the ace.
Yeah, that's what you're gonna get with Yano and it's glorious. Don't you dare disagree.
Well... the easiest thing I can say is that night 2 was a great example of how matches that work something similar to an American-style can still work and still get over today... Felt like we had a group of matches starring babyfaces in peril and dominant heels,..
And 3 of 4 down of the Bullet Scrubs. Yujiro had a pretty nice lady with him and zzzzzzz, who the hell is this Juice Robinson fellow? This guy's been bumping and selling his ass off and showing some AWESOME fire in the two matches I've seen so far. His comebacks are popping crowds way better than I could imagine after his go-nowhere NXT run. I'm proud for him, and so is he after he slammed the mat for the 1-2-3 in such glee and excitement after finally scoring what (I assume) was his biggest NJPW singles victory to date. I can totally get behind Juice as a real sleeper/underdog wrestler in this tournament, especially with the two favorites out of the way early.
Sanada vs YOSHI-HASHI was... techincally sound. The struggle spots were great and very well done, but Seiya Sanada is the same guy he was on Impact way back when... just a guy. He had most of the offense here as well so it wasn't a good showcase for Hashi, boo. Hoped he'd advance just to see what the hype around him (Kelly and Corino were talking about, anyway)... Speaking of, I assume the other title holders (Naito and Goto) weren't here for some reason?
Gosh, I could not WAIT for Katsuyori Shibata vs Minoru Suzuki. This was going to be an ALL OUT WAR... but it wasn't. It was ok I guess. Sure they've had a better match during a G1 sometime...
And if you haven't seen Ishii vs Omega, find it and do so. Low-key Match of the Year contender... I came into this show as a pretty big fan of Ishii and his vicious brawling, being my NJPW favorite from the word go. But getting away from the NEVER division almost treats him even better as this was a masterpiece of selling... however the best part of this match was obviously the greatness of Kenny Omega. SO great, in fact, that he got Ishii MORE over with his work. It was in such a way that Omega would hit a big move. A running boot, and Ishii would go down, and Omega would start laying in a strike or two before posing... where Ishii would see an opening and go for a German Suplex, but Omega would land on his feet and clothesline the hell out of him. Beautiful stuff, and Omega was out-wrestling him to an extent where Ishii truly felt like an out-matched babyface in peril. He was resilient as all hell and kicking out of an entire arsenal of big moves, getting some shots in here and there and keeping the match exciting throughout, before finally getting a real hope spot and stringing a few quality shots in for the shocking upset. This was awesome, and I'm so happy to have watched it...
Now. Shall I go ahead and jump ahead to the finals?... Gotta get back to work soon, haha... well if Ishii/Shibata is happening again I can't miss that! :yay:
And more Toru Yano, of course.
And 3 of 4 down of the Bullet Scrubs. Yujiro had a pretty nice lady with him and zzzzzzz, who the hell is this Juice Robinson fellow? This guy's been bumping and selling his ass off and showing some AWESOME fire in the two matches I've seen so far. His comebacks are popping crowds way better than I could imagine after his go-nowhere NXT run. I'm proud for him, and so is he after he slammed the mat for the 1-2-3 in such glee and excitement after finally scoring what (I assume) was his biggest NJPW singles victory to date. I can totally get behind Juice as a real sleeper/underdog wrestler in this tournament, especially with the two favorites out of the way early.
Sanada vs YOSHI-HASHI was... techincally sound. The struggle spots were great and very well done, but Seiya Sanada is the same guy he was on Impact way back when... just a guy. He had most of the offense here as well so it wasn't a good showcase for Hashi, boo. Hoped he'd advance just to see what the hype around him (Kelly and Corino were talking about, anyway)... Speaking of, I assume the other title holders (Naito and Goto) weren't here for some reason?
Gosh, I could not WAIT for Katsuyori Shibata vs Minoru Suzuki. This was going to be an ALL OUT WAR... but it wasn't. It was ok I guess. Sure they've had a better match during a G1 sometime...
And if you haven't seen Ishii vs Omega, find it and do so. Low-key Match of the Year contender... I came into this show as a pretty big fan of Ishii and his vicious brawling, being my NJPW favorite from the word go. But getting away from the NEVER division almost treats him even better as this was a masterpiece of selling... however the best part of this match was obviously the greatness of Kenny Omega. SO great, in fact, that he got Ishii MORE over with his work. It was in such a way that Omega would hit a big move. A running boot, and Ishii would go down, and Omega would start laying in a strike or two before posing... where Ishii would see an opening and go for a German Suplex, but Omega would land on his feet and clothesline the hell out of him. Beautiful stuff, and Omega was out-wrestling him to an extent where Ishii truly felt like an out-matched babyface in peril. He was resilient as all hell and kicking out of an entire arsenal of big moves, getting some shots in here and there and keeping the match exciting throughout, before finally getting a real hope spot and stringing a few quality shots in for the shocking upset. This was awesome, and I'm so happy to have watched it...
Now. Shall I go ahead and jump ahead to the finals?... Gotta get back to work soon, haha... well if Ishii/Shibata is happening again I can't miss that! :yay:
And more Toru Yano, of course.
Juice has grown a lot of as a worker during his run with New Japan and he's started to get elevated this year, picking up more and more wins. He challenged Goto for the Never belt last month in his biggest match to date.
His original plan was to go to Japan, build a name and then go back to WWE to get a push, but he's apparently re-thought that plan since he's gotten as far as he has gotten in Japan and NJPW have put him in the old Karl Anderson spot as top foreigner. Not on the shows obviously, but he's the guy backstage who is used to keep contact with guys being brought in. He's basically the guy they trust to look after any other foreigner they bring in. Pick them up at the airport, get them to the dojo etc and just be the go between. So he's important for them.
Not saying he won't go back to the states in the future. But he's staying longer than originally planned.
Out of the quarter finals, EVIL/Nagata and Ishii/SANADA were both very good matches, I'd put them around the 4 star mark. Both are worth watching. Juice/Shibata was sneaky good, so to speak. It was Shibata taking it easy on a guy lower on the card until he realized he couldn't hold back if he wanted to win. Watch if you have some time to spare. Fale/Yano was a Yano match.
As far as the semis and the final:
EVIL/Fale was alright. I don't think you should go out of your way to watch it, but it was fine. Ishii/Shibata was awesome; somewhat different from their other matches in that they took their time and had more of a drawn-out match (in a good way) instead of killing each other from the get go. This you should see.
Shibata/Fale was good. The crowd was nuts for Shibata and the match was laid out very well. I'd watch it too if I were you.
Shibata/Fale was good. The crowd was nuts for Shibata and the match was laid out very well. I'd watch it too if I were you.
NJPW Sakura Genesis 2017
Sunday, April 9th
Sumo Hall, Tokyo, Japan
0. Pre-Show: Manabu Nakanishi, Jushin Thunder Liger & David Finlay vs. Tomoyuki Oka, Katsuya Kitamura & Hirai Kawato
1. Togi Makabe, Yuji Nagata, Tiger Mask W & Tiger Mask IV vs. Bullet Club (Tama Tonga, Tanga Roa, Yujiro Takahashi & Chase Owens)
2. CHAOS (YOSHI-HASHI, Rocky Romero & Beretta) vs. Suzukigun (Minoru SUzuki, El Desperado & TAKA Michinoku)
3. IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Championship: Suzukigun (Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Taichi) (c) vs. The World Class Tag Team (Gedo & Jado)
4. CHAOS (Tomohiro Ishii & Toru Yano) vs. Bullet Club (Kenny Omega & Bad Luck Fale)
5. Hiroshi Tanahashi, Juice Robinson, Ricochet & Ryusuke Taguchi vs. Los Ingobernables de Japon (Tetsuya Naito, SANADA, EVIL & BUSHI)
6. IWGP Tag Team Championship: TenCozy (Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan) (c) vs. War Machine (Hanson & Raymond Rowe)
7. NEVER Openweight Championship: Hirooki Goto (c) vs. Zack Sabre Jr.
8. IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship: Hiromu Takahashi (c) vs. KUSHIDA
9. IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kazuchika Okada (c) vs. Katsuyori Shibata
Sunday, April 9th
Sumo Hall, Tokyo, Japan
0. Pre-Show: Manabu Nakanishi, Jushin Thunder Liger & David Finlay vs. Tomoyuki Oka, Katsuya Kitamura & Hirai Kawato
1. Togi Makabe, Yuji Nagata, Tiger Mask W & Tiger Mask IV vs. Bullet Club (Tama Tonga, Tanga Roa, Yujiro Takahashi & Chase Owens)
2. CHAOS (YOSHI-HASHI, Rocky Romero & Beretta) vs. Suzukigun (Minoru SUzuki, El Desperado & TAKA Michinoku)
3. IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Championship: Suzukigun (Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Taichi) (c) vs. The World Class Tag Team (Gedo & Jado)
4. CHAOS (Tomohiro Ishii & Toru Yano) vs. Bullet Club (Kenny Omega & Bad Luck Fale)
5. Hiroshi Tanahashi, Juice Robinson, Ricochet & Ryusuke Taguchi vs. Los Ingobernables de Japon (Tetsuya Naito, SANADA, EVIL & BUSHI)
6. IWGP Tag Team Championship: TenCozy (Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan) (c) vs. War Machine (Hanson & Raymond Rowe)
7. NEVER Openweight Championship: Hirooki Goto (c) vs. Zack Sabre Jr.
8. IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship: Hiromu Takahashi (c) vs. KUSHIDA
9. IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kazuchika Okada (c) vs. Katsuyori Shibata
Really looking forward to Shibata/Okada and anything Naito is doing...that guy is so damn cool.
I love that card, I wish Naito had a singles match though but LIJ in a tag match isn't bad at all!
Okada vs Shibata is gonna be very interesting with the different styles.
Okada vs Shibata is gonna be very interesting with the different styles.