More on Lesnar not being used at last night's RAW

[The GOAT]

Not sure how Lesnar's drawing ability is exaggerated. He is the biggest draw in MMA and po wrestling in the world

I'm not talking about MMA, I'm talking about pro wrestling. And where is the evidence that he draws more than anyone else in the wrestling industry? Calling him wrestling's biggest draw like it's a given assumption is exactly what I mean when I say people exaggerate just how big of an attraction he is. Being a massive draw in the world of mixed-martial arts and being a massive draw in the world of pro wrestling are two entirely different things.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

You are the evidence dweeb, you tell me the numbers.

Nobody in WWE can touch him that is for sure. maybe some shitty Japanese wrestler draws more in Japan or something

 

[Bort]

Lesnar didn't move any business in WWE, but that's hardly his fault considering he jobbed to Jawn in his return match and had to wrestle THE NOSE three times, it dramatically hurt his drawing abilities. Meltzer has covered this in WONs numerous times, it's basically this: Lesnar boosts PPV numbers to a degree, but not to the point where it justifies his humongous salary. Which means he does help in income, but in the actual profit. The Rock is still the biggest draw in the world, because he actually boosts profit numbers.

Get it?

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

Who outside of Rock draws more you pussy

 

[CFCrusader]

Lesnar makes this shit look legit. Just all I want to say. I don't know shit about "who draws" but Lesnar makes wrestling look a proper sport when he's out there. Probably does get quite a few MMA fans in too.

 

[edge4ever]

Does lesnar draw fans? Of course he does... I mean he did when he went to ufc... Then coming back to wwe will have some People tune in who normally wouldn't. Does this mean that it lasted and still does? Maybe, maybe not. I mean wwe wouldn't just keep the belt on him and let him end the streak if the guy isnt really drawing.... It viewed as a big time player.

I mean whether lesnar wins or loses... You're guaranteed to have one hell of a match... Especially since he's a heavyweight champion ufc fighter, to cfcrusaders point, makes his matches feel on edge... He just seems dangerous... Big ger and stronger than most of his opponents.

 

[Prince Bálor]

A brief update...

We've noted how there was a business disagreement between Vince McMahon and WWE World Heavyweight Champion Brock Lesnar at last Monday's RAW in Nashville. The disagreement led to Lesnar reportedly walking out of RAW and not appearing as scheduled.

Dave Meltzer of The Wrestling Observer Newsletter, who broke the story about Lesnar walking out, notes that it's still not known exactly what Lesnar and Vince were arguing about past the next contract but their discussion was said to be very loud and heated. The two were "yelling and screaming" at each other loud enough to where people were concerned, mainly for Vince.

On Tuesday at the SmackDown tapings, people within WWE reportedly asked Vince if they needed to come up with back-up plans for WrestleMania 31 but Vince said no and assured them that Lesnar will be working the show because he's contractually obligated to. Vince reportedly said something to the effect of they will sue Lesnar if he doesn't show up. WWE officials are said to be very confident that Lesnar will be working WrestleMania.

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news...ince-mcmahon-and-brock-lesnar-arguing-at-raw/

 

[Rogue]

I'd say it's a safe bet that Lesnar will work WrestleMania, but how he'll work the match is entirely different. If he does in-fact leave after the next night to go back to the UFC then he doesn't have any motivation to perform well at WM. Say Lesnar does nothing during the match more than a move here or there to help out Roman it's not going to end up well. If both of the competitors in the match are willing to give it their all I think the ME could be pretty sweet, but with Lesnar slacking? It won't have a real chance, hopefully, that won't be the case though.

 

[edge4ever]

I'd say it's a safe bet that Lesnar will work WrestleMania, but how he'll work the match is entirely different. If he does in-fact leave after the next night to go back to the UFC then he doesn't have any motivation to perform well at WM. Say Lesnar does nothing during the match more than a move here or there to help out Roman it's not going to end up well. If both of the competitors in the match are willing to give it their all I think the ME could be pretty sweet, but with Lesnar slacking? It won't have a real chance, hopefully, that won't be the case though.

Yeah if lesnar botches this match, that will be utter hell. I am looking forward to the match and hope it isn't ruined.

 

[edge4ever]

A brief update...



http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news...ince-mcmahon-and-brock-lesnar-arguing-at-raw/

He pulled a punk

 

[Prince Bálor]

He pulled a punk

Totally

 

[The GOAT]

You are the evidence dweeb, you tell me the numbers.

Nobody in WWE can touch him that is for sure. maybe some shitty Japanese wrestler draws more in Japan or something

The fact that you have to rely on me to produce numbers and evidence only further makes me question why you assume Brock is head and shoulders above everyone else in drawing ability...

But anyway, it's pretty much what Bort said. He's an attraction but not to the point where they can really justify his high price-tag any longer, which is why one of the rumors concerning Brock and Vince's argument backstage is that Lesnar is upset that Vince is offering him less money on a new deal than he has on his two previous ones. This is of course all still just rumors at the present time.

PPV buys aren't what they used to be ever since the Network was launched, but looking at the folks who do still purchase PPVs and comparing buys...

Extreme Rules - 108,000 buys
Payback - 67,000 buys
Money In The Bank - 122,000 buys
Battleground - 99,000 buys (despite being a filler PPV with a thrown together main event)
Summerslam - 147,000 (the biggest PPV of the year out of all the ones on this list, so it's hard to tell how much of that number is off the power of Lesnar/Cena drawing)
Night Of Champions - 48,000 (Brock Lesnar's first title defense)
Hell In A Cell - 86,000 buys
Survivor Series - 100,000 buys (despite the entire Network being FREE to all customers for the entire month of November)
TLC - 39,000 (the free trial in November was such a big success in gaining new subscribers that that number should be expected to be lower)

None of this is 100% concrete since a lot of it depends on how many subscribers they had to the Network at a given time, but there wasn't exactly a huge bump in subscribers when Lesnar won the championship. You could argue Summerslam and NOC would have likely been lower without Brock's involvement, but how much is debatable. That Battleground did that type of number (especially up against NOC) is both astounding and appalling.

I can't be arsed posting a bunch of links to television ratings, but if you bother to look, his segments don't really do any better (or worse) om average than what other superstars and segments usually do in his place.

 

[KITT]

Lesnar didn't move any business in WWE, but that's hardly his fault considering he jobbed to Jawn in his return match and had to wrestle THE NOSE three times, it dramatically hurt his drawing abilities. Meltzer has covered this in WONs numerous times, it's basically this: Lesnar boosts PPV numbers to a degree, but not to the point where it justifies his humongous salary. Which means he does help in income, but in the actual profit. The Rock is still the biggest draw in the world, because he actually boosts profit numbers.

Get it?

Doofus sense - tingling

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

The fact that you have to rely on me to produce numbers and evidence only further makes me question why you assume Brock is head and shoulders above everyone else in drawing ability...

But anyway, it's pretty much what Bort said. He's an attraction but not to the point where they can really justify his high price-tag any longer, which is why one of the rumors concerning Brock and Vince's argument backstage is that Lesnar is upset that Vince is offering him less money on a new deal than he has on his two previous ones. This is of course all still just rumors at the present time.

PPV buys aren't what they used to be ever since the Network was launched, but looking at the folks who do still purchase PPVs and comparing buys...

Extreme Rules - 108,000 buys
Payback - 67,000 buys
Money In The Bank - 122,000 buys
Battleground - 99,000 buys (despite being a filler PPV with a thrown together main event)
Summerslam - 147,000 (the biggest PPV of the year out of all the ones on this list, so it's hard to tell how much of that number is off the power of Lesnar/Cena drawing)
Night Of Champions - 48,000 (Brock Lesnar's first title defense)
Hell In A Cell - 86,000 buys
Survivor Series - 100,000 buys (despite the entire Network being FREE to all customers for the entire month of November)
TLC - 39,000 (the free trial in November was such a big success in gaining new subscribers that that number should be expected to be lower)

None of this is 100% concrete since a lot of it depends on how many subscribers they had to the Network at a given time, but there wasn't exactly a huge bump in subscribers when Lesnar won the championship. You could argue Summerslam and NOC would have likely been lower without Brock's involvement, but how much is debatable. That Battleground did that type of number (especially up against NOC) is both astounding and appalling.

I can't be arsed posting a bunch of links to television ratings, but if you bother to look, his segments don't really do any better (or worse) om average than what other superstars and segments usually do in his place.

So you essentially didn't prove anything with any of this? PPV numbers these days, especially these days, aren't indicative of much. This shows me about what I suspected, that you really have no clue who is "drawing"

Answer my original question. Who, outside of Rock or someone else who isn't realistically showing up more than Wrestlemania season once every couple of years, draws more than Brock. And if you could piece together some sort of "evidence" outside of PPV numbers that mean literally nothing to the discussion?

I didn't ask "Does Brock draw ENOUGH to justify 5 million per year for 10 appearances..." that isn't relevant to me. WWE may very well be overpaying for the drawing that he does, but he does indeed draw, as I and countless others have said, more than anyone else WWE can currently trot out.

 

[Bort]

Clueless fanboys are the worst. Even Brock's pre-Network PPV numbers were nothing to write home about. Even McMahon called SummerSlam 2012 "a swing and a miss".

He is the biggest draw in MMA and po wrestling in the world.

...but he does indeed draw

All your e-thug spinning can't really disguise the fact you're totally clueless. You give nothing to back it up.