John Cena = Best of all time?

[Axis]

Rofl. The Rock carried the WWE for four months. You're really going to continue this debate as if you are right?

And why does it have to be a face to carry the company. From 2003 - 2005, it was Triple H who carried Raw. He was a heel, but because he was so hated, the faces that he went up against become instant fan favorites. Saying it was the Rock because he was the number one face is borderline Blue.

 

[Next Big Thing]

I have two things I want to add here.

First off, in regards to the discussion about comparing the mic skills of Cena and the Rock, and also comparing their overall character. The thing that separates the two is that John Cena has been able to get over big as a both an edgy character, and as a clean cut baby face. Cena was the fastest rising star and on his way to superstardom when he was the rapper, and had some edgy material. While it wasn’t like it was during the attitude era, they were still swearing on television and had more leeway in what they could do and say in 03 and 04, when Cena was a rising star. Fast forward a few years and the WWE decided to go a more family friendly route, in the process forcing everyone including John Cena to tone down what they said and did. Cena was forced to change his character and his promos to a style that suited the audience they were after, and he was still able to be a huge success. The Rock on the other hand, while he had great success as The Rock, and with his edgy promos, he was a complete failure as the clean cut baby face Rocky Maivia.

The second thing I want to touch on is all the talk about the Rock carrying the company. The Rock has had to carry the company, and he did a fine job. However, what separates Cena and the Rock is that the Rock has never been the one to create new fans. The Rock was able to keep the fans while Austin was gone, but Austin was what got them there in the first place. John Cena on the other hand has created many new fans, and it’s been proven that the ratings are better with him, than without him.

 

[Airfixx]

Rofl. The Rock carried the WWE for four months. You're really going to continue this debate as if you are right?

And why does it have to be a face to carry the company. From 2003 - 2005, it was Triple H who carried Raw.He was a heel,

Thank you!

(Coulda done with that post in another thread today too. ;o] )


@NBThing... Don't forget McMahon/Helmsley era had begun, Foley had his retirement angle going on Late 99 > WM00, tag team biz was building big momentum thx to the E&C/Hardys/Dudleys...

but because he was so hated, the faces that he went up against become instant fan favorites.

S-C-O-T-T S-T-E-I-N-E-R...?

:whistles-innocently:

 

[xtremebadass]

I think he's the greatest of all time.

Now don't get all over my nuts here, but look at the guy. He is dedicated to the business 24/7. He won the WWE title in 3 years, has a unique image, has a great personality, great mic skills, smash mouth type wrestler, great merchandise sales, made a CD, starred in 2 movies, is a multi-media superstar, most popular superstar in the WWE, and on top of all that he has never missed a beat. (unless injured, but he still promotes WWE when he is injured.)

He is the best of all time because he is the business, or what the business has become today. He is what Hulk Hogan was to the 80's but with the volume turned way up.

He is better than HHH and HBK. Wrestling is more than just being a great wrestler these days. Sure HBK and HHH have great matches, but compared to Cena's exposure, even with being there 15-20 years, they don't even touch him in terms of exposure and media.

 

[JimmyD]

I have two things I want to add here.

First off, in regards to the discussion about comparing the mic skills of Cena and the Rock, and also comparing their overall character. The thing that separates the two is that John Cena has been able to get over big as a both an edgy character, and as a clean cut baby face. Cena was the fastest rising star and on his way to superstardom when he was the rapper, and had some edgy material. While it wasn’t like it was during the attitude era, they were still swearing on television and had more leeway in what they could do and say in 03 and 04, when Cena was a rising star. Fast forward a few years and the WWE decided to go a more family friendly route, in the process forcing everyone including John Cena to tone down what they said and did. Cena was forced to change his character and his promos to a style that suited the audience they were after, and he was still able to be a huge success. The Rock on the other hand, while he had great success as The Rock, and with his edgy promos, he was a complete failure as the clean cut baby face Rocky Maivia.

The second thing I want to touch on is all the talk about the Rock carrying the company. The Rock has had to carry the company, and he did a fine job. However, what separates Cena and the Rock is that the Rock has never been the one to create new fans. The Rock was able to keep the fans while Austin was gone, but Austin was what got them there in the first place. John Cena on the other hand has created many new fans, and it’s been proven that the ratings are better with him, than without him.

This is exactly my point. I'm not taking anything away from Cena, I'm just saying that The Rock has carried the WWE in the past. Whether it be for 6 months or ten years, he still did it, and there can be no refuting that. I don't deny that The Rock had a super-hot heel to feud with in Triple H, but he was still the banner-guy for the company just as Cena has been.

 

[Airfixx]

The Rock has carried the WWE in the past. Whether it be for 6 months or ten years, he still did it, and there can be no refuting that.

Well, I'M refuting it and you've done nothing to dispell my arguments.

 

[LKP]

I think that its to early to say yet whether cena is the best of all time. Make this thread in 5-10 years time then i will tell you. Imagine someone making a hogan thread in the late 80's people would he is the best thing since sliced bread. Get my point? In 10 years time there will probably be a thread saying is ted dibiase jr the best of all time?

 

[MikeRaw]

I think he's the greatest of all time.

Now don't get all over my nuts here, but look at the guy. He is dedicated to the business 24/7. He won the WWE title in 3 years, has a unique image, has a great personality, great mic skills, smash mouth type wrestler, great merchandise sales, made a CD, starred in 2 movies, is a multi-media superstar, most popular superstar in the WWE, and on top of all that he has never missed a beat. (unless injured, but he still promotes WWE when he is injured.)

He is the best of all time because he is the business, or what the business has become today. He is what Hulk Hogan was to the 80's but with the volume turned way up.

He is better than HHH and HBK. Wrestling is more than just being a great wrestler these days. Sure HBK and HHH have great matches, but compared to Cena's exposure, even with being there 15-20 years, they don't even touch him in terms of exposure and media.

Although I don't agree with you that he's the best of all time (although I think he's up there, like I've said), I think you're still underrating his ring skills. I'd say Cena puts on a better match that Triple H. See his match against Jericho on Raw? How about his series with HBK in 2007? His match with Orton was good as well! Cena doesn't get enough credit for his in ring stuff.

 

[xtremebadass]

The reason everyone discredits his ring abilities is because they don't really market Cena as "the wrestler" type of guy. All they associate him with is either his personality, work ethic, championships, or something else not really saying that he puts on wrestling classics. The only way they talk about his wrestling is by saying he is a powerhouse. If not enough people recognize his good matches and talk about them, chances are you won't think anything of them either if you don't pay attention.

 

[noumenon]

^I have to agree with you there. I believe Cena himself in a few promos stated his lack of wrestling ability compared with others..lol. When paired with people who are kind of sub par it's easy for a guy with the style of Cena to get lost in the shuffle but just look at the match he worked with Jericho on RAW...that shit was incredible.

And as far as the booing goes I really think it's more of a novelty at this point. He still gets the face reaction when it count...IE..the Edge beatdown.

 

[MikeRaw]

He doesn't even get booed, except for in Texas, Chicago, and England.

 

[xtremebadass]

The "Cena Heat" is a secret weapon that is now controlled by WWE. They know how to and when to turn it on and off depending on the situation. WWE controls everything don't you know. lol.

 

[noumenon]

You're forgetting New York as well...he's from fuckin Boston...lol.
People in NY I truly believe hate him..and aren't playing into the novelty of it all.

 

[xtremebadass]

Yea they sure won't booing him at WrestleMania XX, then again that was before the Anti-Cena trend.

 

[LKP]

Cena gets the cheers now yeah sure. If wwe keep him away from the title again expect more cheers and give the guy matches like on raw this week with Jericho. People cant call him a shit wrestler then and he will get more respect from older fans and more cheers.