Dolph Ziggler IS NOT Main Event Quality

[Keith]

Dolph still has things to work on, but I do think he has a lot of talent and I think WWE have been more responisble for him flattering to deceive more than it being his lack of talent.

 

[Kahuna]

The problem I have with Ziggler being champ is that he is over with the crowd, but it seems management wants him paired with anchors that weigh him down. They want to book him as a vulnerable champion, but does that even really work? Having a greener than grass body builder and a girl who (as others have stated) is resembling of a 15 year old girl calling him names that are variations of Pokemon names is hurting him, just like his constant association with Vicky was killing him as well.

I dont see why they have to have him with someone ALL the time, its just redundant. The guy has proven he can go on his own yet they insist on booking him as this champion who cant quite do it on his own; they never give him mic time that is purposeful, yet insist on these ridiculous angles with him and his lackies... People compare him to a Shawn Michaels or Billy Gunn but with all due respect those guys (even though they were involved in factions/tag teams for the majority of their single and faction careers) could be plausible as singles competitors and won titles, whether it was a world title or Intercontinental Title on their own and lost them on their own for the most parts - with Ziggler I just see rehashed character with no sense of individuality.

Have him lose that 300 pound of crap and the 90 pound of lame and let him run off on his own with the title, stop with the stupid pretty boy gestures and "show off" gimmick and get to the point - then he will rise above any doubts people have about him. Management just cant seem to want to let him to go on his own.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Some good points, but the backwards title argument is the dumbest thing I've seen... and I called JBL out on it when he said it.

When Bret Hart called out Kevin Nash for dragging the WWE Championship on the floor as he carried it out instead of wearing it up on his waist or shoulder, THAT was something I supported.

Then Stone Cold Steve Austin came around and tossed the Corporate Championship around like it was a wrestling buddy. That was fine by me, because Mr. McMahon clearly wasn't going to change the title for Austin who saw the belt as representative of everything he hated.

Now you've got John Cena... who takes his own belt and throws it around. Now there's the new belt which Rock described as a little old-school to pay respect to former great champions and new school to give it a look deserving of grandeur. What does Cena do? He runs out to the ring and he throws it across the mat and he runs the ropes, then picks it up and does his little pose.

Dolph Ziggler wears the strap backwards to incorporate it into his pose so that the title plate itself is the focus of the entrance; and you have a problem with it? Unreal.







As far as his stable... a lot of people thought booking HBK with Diesel was going to kill HBK, and they turned it into a feud to separate them and help push HBK to new heights.... this is one of those times where I want to see it play out.

 

[zigglerHEEL]

My Ziggler markdom aside, the OP made a lot of good points and it certainly wasn't the bash piece I thought it could be.... I guess I just place more of the fault of Ziggler not seeming Main Eventish on how creative has handled him... They had the perfect opportunity to break him off on his own when Vickie was named GM (or whatever she is) and had to make decisions that clearly hurt him. Instead they go and immediately add more dead weight to his character with AJ and then even more with Big E.... He had the briefcase, he had his split with Vickie, he had a pretty damn good short feud with Cena and then it all just ended and instead of him pushing forward on his own they throw together this crap stable and he spends the next few months jobbing for anyone and everyone.... Good news is the guy is crazy good in the ring, the AJ/Big E thing has to end sometime, and he's still relatively young and has plenty of time to burst out into the top guy I think he can be..... and if not, many many many guys have had crazy good careers tearing up the midcard and having the match of the night regardless of where it goes on the card

 

[PHX]

Some good points, but the backwards title argument is the dumbest thing I've seen... and I called JBL out on it when he said it.

When Bret Hart called out Kevin Nash for dragging the WWE Championship on the floor as he carried it out instead of wearing it up on his waist or shoulder, THAT was something I supported.

Then Stone Cold Steve Austin came around and tossed the Corporate Championship around like it was a wrestling buddy. That was fine by me, because Mr. McMahon clearly wasn't going to change the title for Austin who saw the belt as representative of everything he hated.

Now you've got John Cena... who takes his own belt and throws it around. Now there's the new belt which Rock described as a little old-school to pay respect to former great champions and new school to give it a look deserving of grandeur. What does Cena do? He runs out to the ring and he throws it across the mat and he runs the ropes, then picks it up and does his little pose.

Dolph Ziggler wears the strap backwards to incorporate it into his pose so that the title plate itself is the focus of the entrance; and you have a problem with it? Unreal.







As far as his stable... a lot of people thought booking HBK with Diesel was going to kill HBK, and they turned it into a feud to separate them and help push HBK to new heights.... this is one of those times where I want to see it play out.

Agreed don't see the issue with Dolph and how he wears the belt. Just one of those minor things to add to his character. As far as the HBK comparison I know what you mean but on the other hand the bodyguard thing hasn't properly worked since they did it with HBK and Diesel so I can see why people will say here we go again with this. Hopefully they do it properly so it does elevate both guys when they break away but can easily see Big E fading into irrelevancy fast.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

Agreed don't see the issue with Dolph and how he wears the belt. Just one of those minor things to add to his character. As far as the HBK comparison I know what you mean but on the other hand the bodyguard thing hasn't properly worked since they did it with HBK and Diesel so I can see why people will say here we go again with this. Hopefully they do it properly so it does elevate both guys when they break away but can easily see Big E fading into irrelevancy fast.

I would say Triple H & Chyna worked pretty well, and although it didn't bring either to much greater success, Christian & Tomko had its moments. But I understand its a very rare thing that the bodyguard works at all.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

As far as the HBK comparison I know what you mean but on the other hand the bodyguard thing hasn't properly worked since they did it with HBK and Diesel so I can see why people will say here we go again with this. Hopefully they do it properly so it does elevate both guys when they break away but can easily see Big E fading into irrelevancy fast.

I don't think the bodyguard thing is the problem, I think it is how they book the bodyguard story line. They've just written so many of them off that it makes you wonder why they ever tried it in the first place. Not to mention, most of the guys with bodyguards went after Cena and he just destroyed the main guy and the bodyguard (not to blame Cena, again, that's the lazy booking when it comes to Cena and his championship reigns).

I've already outlined how I think you can make Big E's breakaway result in his success, and even push Dolph further, but it all comes down to booking. IMO, you give Big E the WHC MITB contract, and have him save Ziggler from losing the strap a few times, and then hint at cashing it in each time only to play the loyal bodyguard role. Then have Ziggler hit the accidental kick on Big E to really plant the idea that Big E could do it. Have E unable to save Dolph at one of the PPV's (after Dolph accidentally kicks him again) but have Dolph win... then have Dolph trying to celebrate with E and have E cash in right there on the spot and take him out and take the belt.


BTW, Big E isn't going anywhere. Cena basically stuck his neck out for the guy before he ever got a job with WWE, and then stuck his neck out for him again to get him onto the main card. A Cena endorsement might be worth more than a Hunter endorsement at this point.

 

[Twist of Fate]

He's actually been with AJ and Langston for a while now and I think a lot of us assumed he wouldn't still be on training wheels by the time he won the title, but as it stands Dolph is a weak champion. He's literally still relying on his backup to beat Kofi Kingston.

That's WWE's doing there though. There's a lot of online reports/rumours that the guy is purposely being booked to look weak which is just plain pathetic (whether "true" or not, that's pretty much how things are going down). What the hell kind of purpose does that ACTUALLY serve (from a logical standpoint)? Worse still, they use 90% of his matches to benefit Big E Langston while Ziggler is simply wasted or inconsequential - with him losing even with interference and pretty much having a lot of the focus on Langston as he takes out and stands over another victim (with the same boring and bland generic monster heel mannerisms that i'm personally so utterly tired of).

To me that's part of the problem. 90% of the time it comes across as more of an opportunity for Langston than it does for Ziggler. Ziggler doesn't even come across as some kind of sly or crafty heel - he literally comes across as second best on all fronts while Langston is handed the spotlight and gets HIS moment. It never helped that WWE has treated so many of their midcarders inconsistently and with zero direction, (meaning one minute a guy like Ziggler almost appears to be relevant or on the right track, only for him to fall back into obscurity) which affects fans long term views of the guy since it's hard to get behind guys like him or Kofi when they spend years at a time being poorly used - and that's if they're lucky.

I don't care about the name but I agree he's also really awkward at promos and the "Show... Off" punchline is terrible. Most would agree Dolph has been in a really weird position for a while now and when WWE committed to him by giving him the briefcase, I'd really hoped they were going to give him more attention, let him cut more promos and figure out what sticks. They started off like this with the Cena feud but I guess he was forgotten during WM season and while Ryback and The Shield were being established.

Pretty much agree. Name aside, the showoff line and in fact (IMO) a lot of the material that's been given to the guy has been somewhat terrible or outright awkward in general, but then it's not just Ziggler who's landed with that.

He did have something going for him (to an extent) with the whole Cena feud IMO (not necessarily as a character, but as a slowly growing star with something to do and with work). I almost wanted to believe (along with the fact that WWE restrained themselves from a quick and cheap cash in at the time) that he might be on some kind of slow, steady but consistent road of development as a star (rather than WWE's attempts at seemingly trying to create instant stars or stars in a short amount of time THEN quickly abandoning that). It's what the guy really needed (as do a lot of stars IMO) and especially while carrying that briefcase. But leading up to Wrestlemania and his title win (and even since that moment) I really feel they've jumped the gun with it.

I just don't get why WWE just can't take a slower but more consistent approach with these guys. IMO, steady long term development in the midcard (an actual flourishing midcard that is) is better than impatiently throwing guys into the main event and either expecting them to catch on or measure up in the eyes of fans. Many of WWE's favourite top stars (including John Cena) steadily worked their way up (to the point where moving into the main event was logical) in order to become the (mostly) all around successes they are. And it's sad how WWE fails to catch on that their current methods generally just don't work (seeing the problem as being the wrestlers in questions - not their methods).

And besides, with WWE bringing back guys like The Rock and putting them into big matches, that more or less shouldn't require too much from the writers to put together given "popularity" of such stars, so you'd think they'd take the time to put (much needed) attention and effort into actually improving the midcard stuff.

 

[Embrace Thou Maryse]

Talent wise he is easily a Main Event level wrestler. He has a great look, is fanstastic in the ring, can literally get a good match out of anyone. He's become a very comfortable and talented talker as well.

His only drawback is booking. He won MITB and was jobbed out to everyman and his dog, then with no real Main Event build other than a cheap win over Cena months before he cashes in MITB on a weakened ADR and wins the Title.

Shit booking is the problem and its the biggest problem in WWE especially in regards to MITB, unless they're an established Main Eventer already WWE jobs them out and just relies on the briefcase to keep them relevant while they lose 30 second squash matches to Brodus Clay.

And things haven't gotten that much better, he's Champ but he needs Big E and AJs help to beat jobbers like Kofi, the least they could do is have him beat Kofi clean. Have him cheat to beat Main Eventers is one thing but when he cant beat a career jobber without help that's just ridiculous.