CM Punk's Possible Return Raises Serious Questions For Wrestlemania 30

[edge4ever]

Your signature just makes me want to go ape-shit.

I already collapsed watching his sig.

 

[Lockard 23]

No I agree with you. I was stating this because there is no such thing as having a 100% black champion. I meant to quote lockard's response about Crayo.

I brought up the 100% Black thing mainly in response to how people say we've never had a WWE Champion that can be looked at and identified as a pure black man (like Booker T. or Mark Henry... though both HAVE held the World Heavyweight Championship before, but not the WWE Championship.) The Rock is technically part black, but a lot of people dismiss him as the first true black champion just because when you look at him, he looks more like a Samoan than a Black man. Of course, it's still ridiculous if someone is arguing that WWE are racist since neither blacks nor Samoans would have held any championships if that were true, but then that's why I question how anyone can assert that WWE harbor racist feelings in the first place. Never mind that blacks have held other championships, including the WHC.

 

[Wacokid27]

I brought up the 100% Black thing mainly in response to how people say we've never had a WWE Champion that can be looked at and identified as a pure black man (like Booker T. or Mark Henry... though both HAVE held the World Heavyweight Championship before, but not the WWE Championship.) The Rock is technically part black, but a lot of people dismiss him as the first true black champion just because when you look at him, he looks more like a Samoan than a Black man. Of course, it's still ridiculous if someone is arguing that WWE are racist since neither blacks nor Samoans would have held any championships if that were true, but then that's why I question how anyone can assert that WWE harbor racist feelings in the first place. Never mind that blacks have held other championships, including the WHC.

Not to mention Yokozuna, Eddy Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, Jr., and Alberto Del Rio have all been WWF/WWE Champion as well. It's kinda hard to be racist when you allow Japanese and Mexican people to carry the top title.

The idea that Booker T wasn't the "real champion" because he was WHC, not WWEC, also ignores that, while at the end, the WHC was treated as almost a secondary title, during most of the WHC's existence, it was treated like a legitimate world title and treated as being on a par with the WWE Championship (the main event of WM XX was a match for the WHC, not the WWE Championship...just off the top of my head). So, to say that Booker or Mark weren't "real champions" because they only won the WHC is just disingenuous and it's the kind of argument that people use who are just trying to stir shit up and not have a real conversation.

wk

 

[Lockard 23]

Not to mention Yokozuna, Eddy Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, Jr., and Alberto Del Rio have all been WWF/WWE Champion as well. It's kinda hard to be racist when you allow Japanese and Mexican people to carry the top title.

The idea that Booker T wasn't the "real champion" because he was WHC, not WWEC, also ignores that, while at the end, the WHC was treated as almost a secondary title, during most of the WHC's existence, it was treated like a legitimate world title and treated as being on a par with the WWE Championship (the main event of WM XX was a match for the WHC, not the WWE Championship...just off the top of my head). So, to say that Booker or Mark weren't "real champions" because they only won the WHC is just disingenuous and it's the kind of argument that people use who are just trying to stir shit up and not have a real conversation.

wk

There also have hardly been any black wrestlers who I felt absolutely should have been pushed to the top who weren't. As mentioned, Booker T. and Mark Henry could have been WWE Championships but the stars never aligned for them to win that title and they ended up winning the WHC instead (though the WHC was still a top belt at the time.) Who else is there? Shelton Benjamin? Exciting wrestler to watch but a bit of a spot monkey and a charisma vacuum. Not hard to see why he was never pushed to the top level. Ahmed Johnson? Despite the fact that he couldn't talk for shit, he still got a big push (won the Intercontinental Title back when that title meant something, and was primed to team with the world champion Shawn Michaels and a big star like the Ultimate Warrior in the main event of the July 1996 In Your House) but a combination of believing his own hype and generally being an unsafe worker in the ring got him released. Faarooq? He was entertaining, but not to the point where I question why he was never pushed to the top. Bad News Brown was supposedly promised the world title back in the day but Vince went back on his word because he decided to put it on the Ultimate Warrior instead. Koko B. Ware? MVP? There's a pretty short list of black talent that I personally feel were ever "Main Event Worthy" (in large part because there hasn't been as many black superstars in general), and as history has shown, not every Main Event Worthy talent gets a run with the title anyway.

 

[Aids Johnson]

There also have hardly been any black wrestlers who I felt absolutely should have been pushed to the top who weren't. As mentioned, Booker T. and Mark Henry could have been WWE Championships but the stars never aligned for them to win that title and they ended up winning the WHC instead (though the WHC was still a top belt at the time.) Who else is there? Shelton Benjamin? Exciting wrestler to watch but a bit of a spot monkey and a charisma vacuum. Not hard to see why he was never pushed to the top level. Ahmed Johnson? Despite the fact that he couldn't talk for shit, he still got a big push (won the Intercontinental Title back when that title meant something, and was primed to team with the world champion Shawn Michaels and a big star like the Ultimate Warrior in the main event of the July 1996 In Your House) but a combination of believing his own hype and generally being an unsafe worker in the ring got him released. Faarooq? He was entertaining, but not to the point where I question why he was never pushed to the top. Bad News Brown was supposedly promised the world title back in the day but Vince went back on his word because he decided to put it on the Ultimate Warrior instead. Koko B. Ware? MVP? There's a pretty short list of black talent that I personally feel were ever "Main Event Worthy" (in large part because there hasn't been as many black superstars in general), and as history has shown, not every Main Event Worthy talent gets a run with the title anyway.

racist. Farooq should have had the belt, at least once. Mark Henry should have been given at least another WHC run last year after the goat promo. Booker T should have had a run, especially considering the time. How many times were the WWE titles were handed off between 2004 and 2009?

 

[edge4ever]

racist. Farooq should have had the belt, at least once. Mark Henry should have been given at least another WHC run last year after the goat promo. Booker T should have had a run, especially considering the time. How many times were the WWE titles were handed off between 2004 and 2009?

Farooq should've, yes. But doesn't prove racism. Mark Henry had his run and beat the top dogs for a while--he didn't need to have another as he's kind of stale. Booker T was World Champion. Not sure exactly, but none of what you said proves racism in the slightest.

 

[Aids Johnson]

Farooq should've, yes. But doesn't prove racism. Mark Henry had his run and beat the top dogs for a while--he didn't need to have another as he's kind of stale. Booker T was World Champion. Not sure exactly, but none of what you said proves racism in the slightest.

I wasnt even arguing racism but you can bet your ass a lot of WWE champs have been undeserving in comparison to the names you have mentioned. There have been WWE champs who have won once or multiple times while HoF winners were going for said title, but never won it.

I'm not arguing anyone is racist, but it is a fact we cannot deny.

 

[JC4Life37]

This is bullshit. Why does HHH have to be a jobber? He is still in better shape and younger than Taker who everyone faps to watching that old ass smurf win every year.

HHH should be the goddamn WWE WHC. fuck the world

I apologize for giving you the impression that i gave a consensus.
I'm tired of HHHs a**... he insists upon himself and thinks that every angle sh*** platinum simply b/c he's there. His mystique walked out on him in 2002 and he needs to 'deal with it.'

As for Taker, he comes, gives us memories and goes the f*** away.

If Trips wasnt an authority figure I would support your argument...but once Vince leaves we'll see how ace you think the guy is then when he isnt putting over Anybody at all

You may call that cool... i call it contrived and boring

 

[edge4ever]

I wasnt even arguing racism but you can bet your ass a lot of WWE champs have been undeserving in comparison to the names you have mentioned. There have been WWE champs who have won once or multiple times while HoF winners were going for said title, but never won it.

I'm not arguing anyone is racist, but it is a fact we cannot deny.

You started off your last post saying, "racism." Sorry for assuming that was your point.

Getting back to what you're saying now, I'm not saying that there has not been WWE champs that aren't "deserving"....just as there have been WHC's that aren't "deserving"...what does that matter? There will always be champs that aren't deserving, but maybe WWE, at some point in time, thought they could work out..so they gave them a run with the belt (like the MIZ, for example). Also, there's lots of backstage politics and things that go on that we'll never know about...we may feel that someone should've have a decent title run and WWE felt that they didn't need it, or hell, maybe that superstar didn't want to be that busy at the time.

Lastly, this discussion got into the realm of racism, now we're veering into another direction discussing HOF's who deserved titles. Truth is, we'll never know.

 

[Wacokid27]

I think you have to consider several factors when it comes to guys carrying the world title/top belt.

If guys like HHH and SCSA had been around during the prime days of Hulkamania, it's possible they never would have held the belt. And, if they had, it wouldn't have been for long, because the belief at the time was that the top babyface should be the Champion and the top babyface in the company was Hogan. The only guys who ever came close to Hogan in his prime were Savage and Warrior. That doesn't mean they wouldn't have been entertaining. They would have been, but they may have never had the chances they had.

Could Faarooq/Simmons have been WWE Champion? Of course. And he would have been terrific. But the stars just didn't line up the right way. Could Booker or Mark have been WWE Champion (several times even)? Sure they could have been, but things just didn't work out for that to happen. Roddy Piper and JYD would have been good WWE Champions. Wasn't the right time when they were in their prime.

If you're a pro wrestler and you can have the following of a Jake "The Snake" Roberts, but you never carry the belt, you've been successful. It's like the debates I hear about the best NFL Quarterback who never won a Super Bowl. Dan Marino never won one, but he's a Hall of Famer. Timing and luck have a lot to do with all of this.

wk

 

[edge4ever]

I think you have to consider several factors when it comes to guys carrying the world title/top belt.

If guys like HHH and SCSA had been around during the prime days of Hulkamania, it's possible they never would have held the belt. And, if they had, it wouldn't have been for long, because the belief at the time was that the top babyface should be the Champion and the top babyface in the company was Hogan. The only guys who ever came close to Hogan in his prime were Savage and Warrior. That doesn't mean they wouldn't have been entertaining. They would have been, but they may have never had the chances they had.

Could Faarooq/Simmons have been WWE Champion? Of course. And he would have been terrific. But the stars just didn't line up the right way. Could Booker or Mark have been WWE Champion (several times even)? Sure they could have been, but things just didn't work out for that to happen. Roddy Piper and JYD would have been good WWE Champions. Wasn't the right time when they were in their prime.

If you're a pro wrestler and you can have the following of a Jake "The Snake" Roberts, but you never carry the belt, you've been successful. It's like the debates I hear about the best NFL Quarterback who never won a Super Bowl. Dan Marino never won one, but he's a Hall of Famer. Timing and luck have a lot to do with all of this.

wk

Basically, everything Waco said here, is my point exactly. We went from racism to simply superstars who should've had the belt .....
:

 

[Wacokid27]

Basically, everything Waco said here, is my point exactly. We went from racism to simply superstars who should've had the belt .....
:

But let's not forget: this thread started out being about the implications of a rumored Punk return on Mania storylines.....ity:

wk

 

[edge4ever]

But let's not forget: this thread started out being about the implications of a rumored Punk return on Mania storylines.....ity:

wk

lol I know. I was mainly saying that towards Aids because one minute he's discussing racism towards champions, then right after it's now about legends who haven't won the belt....:aries:

 

[Lockard 23]

racist. Farooq should have had the belt, at least once. Mark Henry should have been given at least another WHC run last year after the goat promo. Booker T should have had a run, especially considering the time. How many times were the WWE titles were handed off between 2004 and 2009?

The only time it would have made sense to crown Faarooq champion was when he was the leader of the Nation Of Domination in 1996/1997, and eh, it really wouldn't have made sense at all to put the strap on him at that time. Mark Henry could have had another run but he can at least still claim he was world champion (albeit not the WWE Championship) at one point. He still has enough time to win the strap again. As for Booker T., he at least had one run with the WHC. I can't recall any time between his debut in 2001 and 2009 where it would have made more sense to put the WWE Title on him instead of someone else. though. There WERE talks of having him defeat JBL at Survivor Series 2004, mind you, bu they backed out of that when they realized JBL should suffer his first title loss by being fed to Cena (who they already pretty much knew by that point was their next top star) at the next year's Wrestlemania.

Again, as mentioned before me, these are not examples of racism (though I know you're not actually arguing in favor of racism being the cause of this, but still), it's the fact that the stars just never aligned the right way and things never fell perfectly in place for some people to ever be the best choice to crown world champion at a given time. Roddy Piper, Jake Roberts, Ted Dibiase, Mr. Perfect, Rick Rude, Razor Ramon, etc... these are all people who were good enough to have a run with the championship at least once in their careers but it never happened due to there always being a better option available. (This is especially true when referring to the old days when guys like Bruno Sammartino/Bob Backlund/Hulk Hogan/etc. were in their prime... before around 1993 with Yokozuna, there was only ONE heel in WWWF/WWF/WWE history that ever had the championship for more than 2-3 months and that was "Superstar" Billy Graham. Otherwise, the babyface held the title for nearly the whole time and the heels were always just temporary champs designed to be squashed by the next face. That pretty much covers why guys like Roberts, Rude, Perfect, Dibiase, Piper, etc. never got a run with the title.)

 

[Aids Johnson]

The only time it would have made sense to crown Faarooq champion was when he was the leader of the Nation Of Domination in 1996/1997, and eh, it really wouldn't have made sense at all to put the strap on him at that time. Mark Henry could have had another run but he can at least still claim he was world champion (albeit not the WWE Championship) at one point. He still has enough time to win the strap again. As for Booker T., he at least had one run with the WHC. I can't recall any time between his debut in 2001 and 2009 where it would have made more sense to put the WWE Title on him instead of someone else. though. There WERE talks of having him defeat JBL at Survivor Series 2004, mind you, bu they backed out of that when they realized JBL should suffer his first title loss by being fed to Cena (who they already pretty much knew by that point was their next top star) at the next year's Wrestlemania.

Again, as mentioned before me, these are not examples of racism (though I know you're not actually arguing in favor of racism being the cause of this, but still), it's the fact that the stars just never aligned the right way and things never fell perfectly in place for some people to ever be the best choice to crown world champion at a given time. Roddy Piper, Jake Roberts, Ted Dibiase, Mr. Perfect, Rick Rude, Razor Ramon, etc... these are all people who were good enough to have a run with the championship at least once in their careers but it never happened due to there always being a better option available. (This is especially true when referring to the old days when guys like Bruno Sammartino/Bob Backlund/Hulk Hogan/etc. were in their prime... before around 1993 with Yokozuna, there was only ONE heel in WWWF/WWF/WWE history that ever had the championship for more than 2-3 months and that was "Superstar" Billy Graham. Otherwise, the babyface held the title for nearly the whole time and the heels were always just temporary champs designed to be squashed by the next face. That pretty much covers why guys like Roberts, Rude, Perfect, Dibiase, Piper, etc. never got a run with the title.)

Dude. TLDR doesnt even begin to cover the reply.