Bryan/Orton/HHH/Show - Where Do We Stand So Far?

[Dale]

Right two things before I get into this. Firstly, I've been meaning to put this up since the end of the last PPV so come the conclusion of the main event HIAC, this topic could become pretty irrelevant so take it for it's worth. Secondly, no shit about ratings/draws and all that crap. You've been warned.


So let me start by saying that up until now i've really been enjoying this feud and think all 4 guys & Steph have played their parts pretty damn well for the most part, minus Big Show's constant overacting and crying all them weeks ago. I feel as though Orton/Bryan has now gotten to the point where they need a decisive finish on Sunday and to move away from one another until the turn of the year because I feel as though the story is kind of treading water and not really pushing on. As soon as this program started I initially thought we would get a couple of months of Bryan being screwed out of the title, he takes a couple of months away from Orton due to being made to work his way back up and possibly feuds with some other corporate member until the Rumble where he gains a chance at redemption by winning the Rumble (from an early number i'd assume) before eventually toppling the regime at WrestleMania and taking the title.

As far as things stand, I think the finishes to both of their PPV matches have been horrible and I really don't understand the booking behind it. The bigger picture has been to make HHH the somewhat evil boss that only wants what's best for business and that's not Bryan. Orton is the undeserving, hand picked face of the WWE and WWE Champion and Bryan is the underdog trying to overcome adversity and become the champion against HHH's wishes. Fast forward to Night Of Champions.

As we're all aware, Bryan won the title here under dubious circumstances and this is where my first fault with the booking is. Granted, he got the title revoked from him the night after and they wanted to try and get him some sympathy I guess, but why on earth would you have Bryan overcome the odds on the first time of trying? Would it have not been better for Orton's heel character to retain the title on the night under shady circumstances say Bryan's foot under the rope or a fast count in his favour? Would it have no been better for Bryan's underdog story to be screwed on the night (and in my opinion at least) not cheapen his eventual title win? I also believe it would have helped HHH too by sympathising with Bryan a tad but telling him he can't change what has happened.

Battleground rolls around and we get that god awful finish that was just flat as fuck and pretty much robbed people of the money they paid for the PPV, although the Tag Match softened the blow a bit. Again, I don't understand why they booked it this way and I don't see who it really helped other than Big Show. Now I know he's the 4th wheel in all of this and have no problem with what they've gone on to do with him but I don't believe they should have sabotaged the main event of a PPV for him. I've not thought about what the actual finish should have been, but off the top of my head i'd probably go with a ref bump, Big Show knocks out Bryan and Orton retains and it still plays into the ongoing storyline I mentioned earlier. If they were really desperate to make it clear Show wasn't a full fledged heel, have him KO Orton after the match is over.

While we're on the general subject though, has anything ever come out about Armstrong's involvement in that finish because I still don't understand it. I know Armstrong implied Bryan was in on it and then HHH fired him later on and vowed to take care of him which suggested he was in on it which then makes absolutely no sense at all to me logically.

Anyway yeah, I feel like i've rambled on now but like I say I'm enjoying this storyline but just feel as though it's leaving a hell of a lot to be desired when it comes to crunch time. Am I just being impatient? I don't believe I am because like I outlined I was perfectly fine for Bryan to not win the strap until Mania. Or are other people having similar feelings towards this angle? Lemme hear it.
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[Deezy]

tl;dr

I read it, and I',m guessing it's building up to Show taling on Trips, and Bryan going on to the US champ/

 

[SAIYANS]

It stands seemingly at Show being a guy who gets Trips to come out that suit, only to be screwed and eventually take his hot face act on to the world title. Then from there it seems foreshadowing for Michaels ... 30th wrestlemania, Vince watching Steph and Trips call themselves the owners of wwe, and Michaels not approving of things along with Vince leads to kicking some sense into his head I believe.

Orton and Bryan really who knows, they seem and are secondary to the McMahon/show/HBK in presentation, and the title seems the third focus. Who knows maybe Cena simply returns to that division after his world title match and we get a Cena/Bryan 2 or Cena/Bryan/Orton

 

[Defiant]

I feel like the details will finally make more sense after this PPV where things need to go in a definite direction. I doubt HHH's regime will end or fizzle out until near or after Wrestlemania because it's been a winning formula for getting people over with a lot of options going forward. I pretty much agree the storyline has been great except for Big Show's crying and the clusterfuck finales.

Whatever happens at HIAC, Shawn Michaels will be the the biggest factor.

 

[Killz]

We stand in a pile of excrement that realistically needs to be fixed at HIAC. It's a now or never situation. You can't build yourself, your regime and THREE main event contenders all at the same time whilst pulling in outside retirees like HBK to get/give a rub either. There needs to be some focus, these lines between reality and wrestling need to be sharpened and not blurred even further and we need to get some definitive X vs X action.

The problem with this story is primarily the booking of Daniel Bryan and the Big Show. In this era where the little guy can go just as hard as the big guy they have chosen the most stereotypical fan favourite to push and that's the big guy. Big Show doesn't NEED the rub in this situation. Genuinely - the only thing he has going for him is a built up insta-finisher but that could have been worked around and led to a bigger rookie getting the giant rub. That sounded weird.

So not only is a grizzly veteran coming off as the only legitimate threat you have Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton. Randy Orton is THE MAN inside the ring, an absolute general, smooth and world class. He is genuinely as good, if not better, at technical storytelling wrestling than Daniel Bryan and yet his insane streak has been overshadowed by 1) a general no-sell of hurting a woman by the company. 2) the fact Bryan had one week of being pissed and then has smiled like an idiot Cena-style since. 3) he's being out promo'd by HHH at every turn which is pointless. 4) he's now...maybe the FIFTH most interesting thing in the WWE title match at HIAC? After Triple H, HBK, Big Show and DB. It's madness. Orton deserves better booking.

As for DB he had his moment on the backs of the face roster with the crowd chanting yes and he IS still over despite what anyone says but why oh why is your first legitimate attempt at making someone THE GUY being hampered by an old giant who only has a few years left in him, the COO famous for putting his face in the spotlight over others and a WWE made guy in Orton who didn't really NEED another main event rub (aside from just being put back in the damn main event)?

WWE themselves and wrestling fans in general are CLAMOURING for new faces. They had CM Punk and the following of every indy fan, every wrestling fan, every member of the IWC and soon a good chunk of the casual fans too and they had Triple H and Kevin Nash destroy his momentum. Then DB got one word and one gesture over more than anyone has been over since Fandango that ONE night and so far Triple H is destroying his momentum, the Rhodes brothers stole some of it and the Big Show is leeching off of it. DB is going to be a player now, that's for sure, but every time Hunter tries to get heat by calling him a Jericho or Edge it's reinforcing the idea that they had someone who COULD have been the face of the company and they butchered it.

I wouldn't be surprised if buys were down for the PPV. People aren't stupid. No amount of promises or HB-Shizzle (the guy is past it on the mic) will erase the memory of having the hero screwed so many times that we've lost any hope. In fact, with Big Show and Orton and HBK and a long while to go to Wrestlemania even if all we want is DB as champion for a little while it almost doesn't make sense...so you go with Orton...and then you've killed that DB challenge for a few years until, like Punk, he can get back into something worthwhile.

Potential turned to failure but with a chance at redemption. We need a definitive champion, screwjob or not, but then we need Vince if he's coming back to draw the lines. I want to know who is in charge of who, who is behind what and I want to know who the company is putting their weight behind or why in the hell should I invest in the TV? Let alone buy the PPV?

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

@Kills this would happen regularly around Survivor Series time back in the late 80's early 90's. The Corporation/Regime/Brass whatever they actually call themselves are building up a Heel team going into it, and in doing so are creating a misfit face team to fight them off at Survivor. Its not hard to imagine HHH, Orton, and The Shield going up against DB, Show, The Rhodes, and Big E(since it now seems like Miz will be in the undercard SS Match with the Usos and Truth, against The Wyatts, with possibly Kane depending how they bring him back). In the main feud you have the WWE Title, Tag Team Titles, and U.S. Title with an "Attitude Era" vet on either side. 3 divisions getting attention, something that would have been unheard of 2 years ago, and by bringing in Show & HHH you get an opportunity of having more viewers on the PPV. Bringing HBK into things during the actual build-up on a B PPV not only might bring in more viewers for HiaC, but might get people invested to watch the go home build-up to Survivor. Not to mention with the story right now HBK makes a load of sense, He trained Bryan, and is HHH best friend, wrestling storylines rarely have this much invested in them, or this amount of natural drama(last time probably would have been HBK/Hart).

I for one am happy to see that WWE are investing in longer stories, its about time they give a storyline that isn't designed for the A.D.D. generation.

 

[Killz]

@Kills this would happen regularly around Survivor Series time back in the late 80's early 90's. The Corporation/Regime/Brass whatever they actually call themselves are building up a Heel team going into it, and in doing so are creating a misfit face team to fight them off at Survivor. Its not hard to imagine HHH, Orton, and The Shield going up against DB, Show, The Rhodes, and Big E(since it now seems like Miz will be in the undercard SS Match with the Usos and Truth, against The Wyatts, with possibly Kane depending how they bring him back). In the main feud you have the WWE Title, Tag Team Titles, and U.S. Title with an "Attitude Era" vet on either side. 3 divisions getting attention, something that would have been unheard of 2 years ago, and by bringing in Show & HHH you get an opportunity of having more viewers on the PPV. Bringing HBK into things during the actual build-up on a B PPV not only might bring in more viewers for HiaC, but might get people invested to watch the go home build-up to Survivor. Not to mention with the story right now HBK makes a load of sense, He trained Bryan, and is HHH best friend, wrestling storylines rarely have this much invested in them, or this amount of natural drama(last time probably would have been HBK/Hart).

I for one am happy to see that WWE are investing in longer stories, its about time they give a storyline that isn't designed for the A.D.D. generation.

That's a wonderful sentiment and exciting prospect but what's the go home message from all that? Who leaves as champion/s? Where does the company go? That's my problem.

What if we have that match but all that's planted is the seeds for Triple H to get his ring gear back on and go over someone again like Jericho for the Undisputed title or CM Punk during WWE's summer of Punk and destroy their momentum?

Believe me, I have enjoyed and given this build the benfit of the doubt all the way until the last segment on RAW. You might not think it's strictly fair to base my lack of faith on one segment but it told the whole story. If they want to build this heel regime, and I get what they're doing, they should have held off on it. Non finishes at PPV's turn people off. Seeing their hero get the upper hand 2 times out of 12 turns people off. Positioning (key word) Triple H as the most important character in the WWE title match between Orton and DB with HBK coming in as the second most important character will turn people off. It is a GREAT angle that has pushed Cody and it pushed the Uso's briefly and Ziggler and has made the SHIELD badass and relevent again and it's done a lot of good things for a good few divisions but it's lacking the main event bite and punch that the last generation would have seen.

As I say, if they give me a clear winner, have Vince back Monday, draw some lines and immediately start the build to a SurSer match like you suggested I'll come in here and say thank god and look forward to a payoff finally but there's too big an "if". We shouldn't be wondering if it's going that way or if instead we're going to get HHH vs Big Show as the main event or something ridiculous. Honestly I want this to go to 'Mania in some fashion or another, I love long builds and slow builds but this has been a very heel heavy, very quick build and now they have to claw back the face advantage and Big Show being the most prominant face wasn't painted as the point at the start of the angle. Make Bryan a star before his over-ness fizzles out damn it.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

That's a wonderful sentiment and exciting prospect but what's the go home message from all that? Who leaves as champion/s? Where does the company go? That's my problem.

What if we have that match but all that's planted is the seeds for Triple H to get his ring gear back on and go over someone again like Jericho for the Undisputed title or CM Punk during WWE's summer of Punk and destroy their momentum?

Believe me, I have enjoyed and given this build the benfit of the doubt all the way until the last segment on RAW. You might not think it's strictly fair to base my lack of faith on one segment but it told the whole story. If they want to build this heel regime, and I get what they're doing, they should have held off on it. Non finishes at PPV's turn people off. Seeing their hero get the upper hand 2 times out of 12 turns people off. Positioning (key word) Triple H as the most important character in the WWE title match between Orton and DB with HBK coming in as the second most important character will turn people off. It is a GREAT angle that has pushed Cody and it pushed the Uso's briefly and Ziggler and has made the SHIELD badass and relevent again and it's done a lot of good things for a good few divisions but it's lacking the main event bite and punch that the last generation would have seen.

As I say, if they give me a clear winner, have Vince back Monday, draw some lines and immediately start the build to a SurSer match like you suggested I'll come in here and say thank god and look forward to a payoff finally but there's too big an "if". We shouldn't be wondering if it's going that way or if instead we're going to get HHH vs Big Show as the main event or something ridiculous. Honestly I want this to go to 'Mania in some fashion or another, I love long builds and slow builds but this has been a very heel heavy, very quick build and now they have to claw back the face advantage and Big Show being the most prominant face wasn't painted as the point at the start of the angle. Make Bryan a star before his over-ness fizzles out damn it.

But a few years ago, there was the WWE Title, & WHC Title and that was all that got any focus, made people scream for unification matches, and complain that the same 8 people were always in the main event scenes. Now we have the focus on undercard titles, it has taken some serious time and development to get the tag division back up and having people excited about them, and the aspect of traditional Survivor Series matches with a build actually excites me. This isn't TNA, I do have some hope that this story will go somewhere.

I have no doubt HiaC gives us a winner, and most importantly a champion, probably Orton giving team heels 2 titles, and team faces 2. Bryan probably shouldn't win the title until Mania, show him working with Cena right up until the Rumble, they are the last 2 in the ring and Bryan gets the better of him again. It would build him up as Cena's bane after a decade of dominance. Its the only way I can see anyone really getting built anymore.

And to your comment about people not wanting to see the hero fail. During Cena's reign on top, I got bored like there was no tomorrow. As an avid comic reader, my favorite stories are always the ones where even if the hero wins, he still fails, like Spider-Man defeating Green Goblin, but Gwen Stacy getting killed along the way, or Spawn being able to trap Satan & God, but finally realizes he was sent to hell because he killed his unborn child. When the hero fails, it gives people more of an invested interest in the story. Can he overcome this, will he be defeated again, will he ever get his happily ever after.

And about HHH/Y2J Undisputed...... Too soon!