Bret Hart ribs Pat Patterson for being gay on live television after Raw

[Cena's Jeans Shorts]

There are degrees of it. I wouldn't call it outright racism like Sergio is ready to join the KKK. But he's not an idiot. It's not like he wasn't around when Fuzzy Zeoller got in trouble for the same shit. He knows it's used as a stereotype. Far from the worst, but still the dude has been hot at Tiger for years and took a jab. It's not like calling the guy a "Nope". But it's not exactly innocuous either. He let it out there to get at the guy and surprise, it did.

 

[PHX]

lol @ the whole Sergio thing, since when is fried chicken a slur against blacks? Fried chicken is awesome. Who doesn't want to serve that to guests? I'm pretty sure it isn't just blacks who eat chicken. More fake outrage if you ask me, not everything should be blown up into a big deal. It's like people go out of their to point out problems to feel morally superior to others.

Since forever? It's one of the most common stereotypes in America. Sergio wouldn't have said it if it wasn't a racial stereotype same way Fuzzy Zoeller said it to Tiger years ago (which came off a lot worse).

Anyways after seeing it on video I can kind of see how Pat was caught off guard by the joke after the seriousness of what Pat said about Bret but like I said Bret obviously didn't mean it with hurtful intent by the way he said it.

 

[Keith]

I think there is an overall problem in wrestling of people still being too masciline and anti-gay, the fact Pat is singled out for this and it is seen as exceptable is a a sign of how far behind the times the business is. Still this time I think Bret stayed just the right side of the line.

 

[TheTimidPimp]

It's an un-PC joke that he probably shouldn't have said. But they're obviously good friends and he's obviously doesn't mean any harm by it and isn't a homophobe so people need to fucking get over it and stop blowing it out of proportion. I'm all for political correctness but people need to use some common sense and differentiate between people with decent values who've made a joke that turned out to be a bit of a faux pas, and people who are actual bigoted arseholes, otherwise it starts to lose meaning and just gives more fuel for idiots who say "It's political correctness gone mad" and other such bollocks to throw on the fire and portray anyone who's remotely left wing as a whinging party pooper. ME FOR PRESIDENT.

 

[John McHenry]

It's an un-PC joke that he probably shouldn't have said. But they're obviously good friends and he's obviously doesn't mean any harm by it and isn't a homophobe so people need to fucking get over it and stop blowing it out of proportion. I'm all for political correctness but people need to use some common sense and differentiate between people with decent values who've made a joke that turned out to be a bit of a faux pas, and people who are actual bigoted arseholes, otherwise it starts to lose meaning and just gives more fuel for idiots who say "It's political correctness gone mad" and other such bollocks to throw on the fire and portray anyone who's remotely left wing as a whinging party pooper. ME FOR PRESIDENT.

Just thought I'd take a minute to point out that this man has a sig of Savage elbowing a Hamster(?) So political correctness may not be his area of expertise.


But seriously words only have meaning if you give it to them. If everyone was like hey that was funny wouldn't that be a little better?

[video=youtube;exNWAvlNYdM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exNWAvlNYdM[/video]
Is that only funny if you're white?

 

[Slim]

So he made a joke... so what? It wasn't exactly a stroke of genius but it isn't that hard to accept it is it? Just have a little fun with it.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

Clearly nobody read Bret's book, or they would know that Bret is known for ribbing his friends. There used to be a lot of lewd cartoons drawn up of the guys, a couple about Pat's sexual orientation.

Do people here not make fun of their friends?

 

[John McHenry]

Clearly nobody read Bret's book, or they would know that Bret is known for ribbing his friends. There used to be a lot of lewd cartoons drawn up of the guys, a couple about Pat's sexual orientation.

Do people here not make fun of their friends?

Tend not to do it on Live TV, after a very heartfelt speech.

 

[Twist of Fate]

At the end of the day though I don't see why the "gay" part is necessarily the main issue (other than it being the motivation for Hart to obviously rib him in the first place - lots of people joke like that regardless of "sexuality" or even gender). Is it any better on WWE PG programming if a diva were on their knees and the same implication was made? It'd likely be quite degrading there too. In a world without "homophobia" it could still be seen to be an issue regardless.

In a way I kind of see it as being a bit like a few years back, when Cena got in trouble for implying Alex Riley and Miz were gay. GLAAD (IIRC) jumped all over that one and created a huge fuss (with public apologies from Cena and WWE issuing disclaimers etc). But is it REALLY a homophobic thing to say? If that's the case then what about all those people that pay out their guy+girl mates and jokingly call them a couple? Is that in some way a larger issue also? In that instance I didn't see an issue at all - outside of him implying they're a couple (which apparently is "offensive"), how is it otherwise actually "offensive"? Maybe it's not an issue since i'm not gay, but I honestly just don't see the big deal.

Just to clarify, i'm not saying that Bret Hart's actions (and the possible motivation behind it) are "ok" (particularly on PG TV). I'm just saying that with some situations I can't help but wonder how many people actually take the time to consider if something is inappropriate for actually being homophobic or racist, or if something is that much more inappropriate BECAUSE it either references gayness in some way or because a person in question just happens to be gay. IMO there is a difference and whether an issue is the real deal or not, some people out there don't seem to consider it to fair extent (not necessarily in reference to anyone in this thread mind you).

 

[We Are Legion]

smh

It's actually embarrassing to read some of the asinine comments in this thread because people just don't get it. It's not the fact Bret ribbed Pat for his sexuality that makes this discussion-worthy, it's the fact he did in on live television during a ceremony that was supposed to be commemorating Bret. If this was leaked from a backstage altercation and it wasn't something that was supposed to leave the locker room, I wouldn't give a rat's ass.

Homosexuals are still ridiculed every day and often much, much worse than what Bret said to Pat. It's a sensitive subject to millions of people who have gay friends or relatives and see what they go through every day, or are gay themselves and experience it first hand. Believe it or not, many gay people do watch wrestling. There were no doubt hundreds of them in attendance the Saddledome that very night. And it's pathetic that of all the things Bret could have said to Pat after he sincerely proclaimed Bret as the "best Canadian wrestler of all time", Pat's sexuality is where the focus was. If you don't see how shitty that is, then there's no hope for you. It wasn't "edgy programming" (ATTITUDE ERA LOOOOOLZ), it was a stupid and senseless comment that was made publicly at a very inappropriate time. This very much was Bret saying "LOOK, EVERYONE! PAT'S GAY! ISN'T THAT HILARIOUS?" And don't bother trying to spin it any other way, because that's exactly what it was. It's easy for heterosexuals to shrug something like that off and say, "Oh it was just a joke, calm down", but who are we to say that? Have you ever been beaten up, mugged, fired, denied employment, slandered, and have people look at you disgusted every single day of your life because of something you can't help? It says a lot about where we are as a fucking species when even a polarizing figure such as Bret Hart still doesn't understand that. Maybe he should climb down of his high horse for once in his career and see what's happening in more humble parts of the world.

As for Lawler, I'm sure his comments were just an attempt to quickly change the subject without halting the flow of the segment entirely. I'm sure he thought ribbing Pat for his wrestling was preferable to ribbing him for his sexuality, and he was absolutely correct.

 

[TheTimidPimp]

In a way I kind of see it as being a bit like a few years back, when Cena got in trouble for implying Alex Riley and Miz were gay. GLAAD (IIRC) jumped all over that one and created a huge fuss (with public apologies from Cena and WWE issuing disclaimers etc). But is it REALLY a homophobic thing to say?

I think that's a little different. They're not gay, he's saying that they're gay as an insult to make fun of them and embarrass them, which implies that being gay is a bad thing and something to be ridiculed and ashamed of. So I can see why people might get offended by that. It was a dumb joke to make but I don't think what Bret said had the same malice or insinuations in it. It was just quite a thoughtless thing to say and not particularly funny or necessary, and as the guy above said, delivered at a ridiculously inappropriate time.

Pretty good save from Lawler. If only he could go back 14 years and save himself from calling Goldust a "Flaming fag" on TV.

 

[Rated R Superstar]

If he shouted "Pats a big flaming homo!" It would be different. I doubt the kids in the crowd got the joke.

 

[Twist of Fate]

I think that's a little different. They're not gay, he's saying that they're gay as an insult to make fun of them and embarrass them, which implies that being gay is a bad thing and something to be ridiculed and ashamed of. So I can see why people might get offended by that. It was a dumb joke to make but I don't think what Bret said had the same malice or insinuations in it. It was just quite a thoughtless thing to say and not particularly funny or necessary, and as the guy above said, delivered at a ridiculously inappropriate time.

In regards to that Cena situation, I honestly didn't get that impression. It kinda struck me as being him legitimately paying out or teasing them over the idea they're always together by saying that "they are together" - that's it. I guess it can be taken either way and hell, for all i know it is offensive, but I honestly can't help but feel it's nitpicking, particular in comparison to something of this level. Perhaps that's seen to be in bad taste, but I legitimately feel it's an instance that blown out of proportion. I don't really think someone has to be gay or not gay to have or not have an opinion on THAT matter personally (granted someone who is gay will probably feel stronger, but then isn't it possible for it to be taken out of context or for it to misunderstood also because it's kinda touchy? And I personally don't recall hearing about it being much of an issue outside of GLAAD themselves. Maybe it's wrong for me to have said "GLAAD created a huge fuss" for what that implies, but I personally believe regardless, there's a line and to be honest, I just think that instance is debatable and not as clear cut as it was made out to be there. That is where i'm coming from with that. I just can't help but question with that whether (in part) it's a "knee jerk reaction" or not. I honestly just don't remember it being "anti-gay" and IMO there IS always the possibility of an overreaction (maybe an "under"reaction too to be fair).

It's partly what i'm getting at with this current issue. There ARE people with legitimate considerations and complaints and i'm not saying they're wrong here (I stated my own view, but that doesn't mean I think of that as fact btw, just my take on the situation). If GLAAD were to address this issue and become involved, then i'd totally understand that with this situation to be honest (even outside of whatever potential friendship Hart and Patterson have, it's a negative on live TV). Despite what my previous post implied, I understand and acknowledge that it CAN offend on that kind of scale. I'm just considering it from another point of view, in that if you subtract that aspect, it's still a relevant issue and was an unethical thing to do regardless anyway while the other Cena thing (IMO) wasn't necessarily depending how it was taken I guess.

But the other main thing I was particularly alluding to in the last paragraph of that post was that I am finding these days there are a fair amount of thoughtless, insincere, and overzealous people that will enthusiastically jump onto the bandwagon and attempt to politically correct things or point the finger at what they feel is racist or immediately accusing others (regardless of if it's meant or if it's just taken as such) of homophobia. There's a LOT of legitimate people and with strong views over this, but there are others that are insincere or just miss the point sometimes and can exaggerate or cause more conflict as a result. But then, I guess that can be with anything in life.

 

[DeathChamberzMusic]

A little too sensitive I would say that it was a light hearted joke between people who know each other really well.

A joke from a friend is not out of places

Ok what it is is the whole stigma of black people love fried chicken and watermelon and what not. Not really racist but it's meant as mockery

 

[DeathChamberzMusic]

smh

It's actually embarrassing to read some of the asinine comments in this thread because people just don't get it. It's not the fact Bret ribbed Pat for his sexuality that makes this discussion-worthy, it's the fact he did in on live television during a ceremony that was supposed to be commemorating Bret. If this was leaked from a backstage altercation and it wasn't something that was supposed to leave the locker room, I wouldn't give a rat's ass.

Homosexuals are still ridiculed every day and often much, much worse than what Bret said to Pat. It's a sensitive subject to millions of people who have gay friends or relatives and see what they go through every day, or are gay themselves and experience it first hand. Believe it or not, many gay people do watch wrestling. There were no doubt hundreds of them in attendance the Saddledome that very night. And it's pathetic that of all the things Bret could have said to Pat after he sincerely proclaimed Bret as the "best Canadian wrestler of all time", Pat's sexuality is where the focus was. If you don't see how shitty that is, then there's no hope for you. It wasn't "edgy programming" (ATTITUDE ERA LOOOOOLZ), it was a stupid and senseless comment that was made publicly at a very inappropriate time. This very much was Bret saying "LOOK, EVERYONE! PAT'S GAY! ISN'T THAT HILARIOUS?" And don't bother trying to spin it any other way, because that's exactly what it was. It's easy for heterosexuals to shrug something like that off and say, "Oh it was just a joke, calm down", but who are we to say that? Have you ever been beaten up, mugged, fired, denied employment, slandered, and have people look at you disgusted every single day of your life because of something you can't help? It says a lot about where we are as a fucking species when even a polarizing figure such as Bret Hart still doesn't understand that. Maybe he should climb down of his high horse for once in his career and see what's happening in more humble parts of the world.

As for Lawler, I'm sure his comments were just an attempt to quickly change the subject without halting the flow of the segment entirely. I'm sure he thought ribbing Pat for his wrestling was preferable to ribbing him for his sexuality, and he was absolutely correct.

Being a black guy yes I have. And unlike a gay person I can't pretend not to be black I can't be in the closet about. However I also can take a joke. If Pat was offended or they are not close to make jokes that's one thing if he's trying to offend. If he's joking than he's joking biggest issue is that you can't do inside jokes where anyone can here as they might be lost on the context.