Bin Laden 'Murdered' By Omar Sheikh?

[MikeRaw]

I have to say I find it funny how someone seems to think they know more about the Middle East (a placevthey've never been in) over stories they've heard more than someone who lives there.

That doesn't mean anything. C4 doesn't live in the entire Middle East. He lives in a single country there. On top of that, even C4 admitted the videos don't lie. Shit does actually go down over there. He claims it happens less than we think, and that it's rare for that to happen, which can be debated. I personally think if it happens more than once a month (which it does), then it's not rare, or a minority, because car explosions, buildings blowing up, and shootings in the street aren't normal things to happen. The debate is really about what someone considers rare and minority. C4 isn't pretending that stuff doesn't happen. We both know it happens. He just thinks it doesn't happen enough to be considered that it's a way of life over there, or frequent, and I do.

Also, maybe I'm wrong, and call me dumb if you want, but didn't Bush send guys across seas to find this guy? I thought this guy was already found and killed or whatever?

Way to be informed.[/sarcasm]
Bush did send guys over there to 'find' him, but he hasn't been found yet (depending who you ask, I guess). The guy they found was Saddam Hussein.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

We were sent over to Afghanistan in (I believe) early 2002 to search for Bin Laden. There have been several (reported) instances where they've gotten very close to finding him, only for him to "slip away" into the mountains.

There's been 2 or 3 gunfights directly involving Bin Laden and his security. People have been hesitant to follow him into the mountains and caves because they set tripwires and shit at blockages in 'em, so it's too risky to pursue immediately.

 

[Wrestling Station]

Kuwait sounds fine, but we pretty much knew that. It's everywhere else that seems iffy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates

Any truth to any of that?

The government there is just a royal family (just like the UK) I dont think that is specifically related to being muslim lol.

From wiki about UAE's human rights:
Negative comments about Islam, the government, ruling families, or UAE citizens (by expatriates) are punishable by imprisonment, although this regulation is rarely enforced, as the press practices self-censorship.

well that is true ofcourse, there are not limited to the degree that democracy is not affective nor important. The case here is just that we are proud of our religion that we dont accept any humiliation towards it (especially from someone that is living on our soils). But other than that, if someone is not happy for example here in Kuwait, they actually confront even the prime minister! and it happened several times (although the prime minister is from the loyal family) so the prince of kuwait had no choice but to kick him out of his position just to please the public.

Check about Kuwait, the strongest parlament in the arab world. So many ministers got confronted and removed from the parlament guys (known as National Assembly here).

I dont live in UAE, but its pretty much similar to Kuwait but Kuwait is the flagship country of modernization in the Gulf Countries since the 1960's. So its pretty much ahead of the other countries.

A better person to talk about UAE would be Alhajri. As he is from there.

 

[Italian Outsider]

I have to say I find it funny how someone seems to think they know more about the Middle East (a placevthey've never been in) over stories they've heard more than someone who lives there.

sounds crazy huh? but that's actually what happened. in the case of c4, just because terrorism bombings don't happen under the window of his home, he thinks the middle east is a safe place, and terrorists are a small minority. it's not.
as proved multiple times in this thread, he pretty much lives under the cover of glass of his modernized country, ignoring what happens not far from there.

the fact even WS, who lives there, and doesn't like me at all, agrees with me is self-explanatory.

 

[C4]

Last week we had elections for the parlament and 4 women won. So you cant say that we dont allow women to go to school or something lol. Actually my country, UAE, Bahrain are the most civilized modernized countries in the middle east (mostly muslims not christians countries so I didnt add Libanon).

Anyway, I feel bad that C4 is trying to answer question here as he wont be the correct person for it, no offense there; but really you just make things worse >_> lol.

I agree with TIO that its not a 1000 are the ones who are violent. The problem is, there are terrorist societies train teenagers to become terrorist. All of those societies and campaigns are in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia (in lower rate), Palestine (well I cant call those terrorist as they are actually in real war with the Israelies).

C4, you said that a guy or two were born in Kuwait are terrorist right? So what? we dont have terrorist training places here so those guys had their own believes and their own wish to leave this country and go to a fucked up country like Afghanistan to get certain training by their own wish.
If those guys were Kuwaities, the government here will remove their nationality and citizenship and they will not allow them to enter Kuwait. Its a rule and its well known here.
If they were only born here and are not actually Kuwaities, then also they wont allow them to enter the country again and who gives a shit about someone born here or there? It wont change the fact of who and how and where did he learn the terrorist path and mentality! Was it from bad friendships? from some websites while he was visiting other country? or by some un-authorized calls between people? As here the Internal affairs are blocking every website that leads to any terrorist training or even the brain wash speaches.

Here in the mosques, all the speaches are being recorded and sent to the Ministry of Awkaf (religion) so they can trace if there is any wrong statement sent through that speach.

Here we are well educated and modernized, not barbaric people like the ones you guys see on TV.

Most pictures you see on TV are from those same people whom are trained under Al-Qaeda or other naive groups not well known to public.

Why those guys are doing this? are they real muslims and actually understand the Quran? Hell no. They are business people looking for the following:
1-Money
2-Fame
3-Control
4-Attention Whores

So they bring those idiots and losers and brain wash them with some twisted ideas as they translate the Quran to them in a wrong way that they will believe them that Quran told them to kill innocent people. Its all a game they are playing for their own benefits as I mentioned in the list above.

Like TIO said, Mafia act. Its like Mafia but the difference is that they add that gredient to it (religion) just to hide the true behind their actions and try to recruit people to support them with twisted media.

We dont call them muslims, we call them Erhabieen (terrorists) and actually they are no where near God's well.

That doesn't mean anything. C4 doesn't live in the entire Middle East. He lives in a single country there. On top of that, even C4 admitted the videos don't lie. Shit does actually go down over there. He claims it happens less than we think, and that it's rare for that to happen, which can be debated. I personally think if it happens more than once a month (which it does), then it's not rare, or a minority, because car explosions, buildings blowing up, and shootings in the street aren't normal things to happen. The debate is really about what someone considers rare and minority. C4 isn't pretending that stuff doesn't happen. We both know it happens. He just thinks it doesn't happen enough to be considered that it's a way of life over there, or frequent, and I do.

These intelligent posts sum up the entire argument. Well said.

 

[★Chuck Zombie★]

The government there is just a royal family (just like the UK) I dont think that is specifically related to being muslim lol.

Oh, i was just talking about the government, not specifically the religion, but it does tie in, obviously.

From wiki about UAE's human rights:
Negative comments about Islam, the government, ruling families, or UAE citizens (by expatriates) are punishable by imprisonment, although this regulation is rarely enforced, as the press practices self-censorship.

well that is true ofcourse, there are not limited to the degree that democracy is not affective nor important. The case here is just that we are proud of our religion that we dont accept any humiliation towards it (especially from someone that is living on our soils). But other than that, if someone is not happy for example here in Kuwait, they actually confront even the prime minister! and it happened several times (although the prime minister is from the loyal family) so the prince of kuwait had no choice but to kick him out of his position just to please the public.

Yeah, the natives may believe that ignoring negate thoughts toward their government or religion is something to be proud of, but that's how governments and religious leaders control people. In America, everything is questioned (some take it too far and actually make people want to take away their right of free speech, but they can't have that taken away). A lot of the right-wing conservatives say that if you question right-wing activities that you are against America....I've heard it myself many times. But the truth is that the reason America was and is anywhere near as good as it is, is because no one group ever had total control. In my opinion, questioning decisions should be praised, not condemned. Questioning can always help iron out flaws in plans.

I dont live in UAE, but its pretty much similar to Kuwait but Kuwait is the flagship country of modernization in the Gulf Countries since the 1960's. So its pretty much ahead of the other countries.

Yeah, your country is doing great in that aspect, and I could definitely see the appeal in giving up some civil liberties for that kind of economic security, but I know a lot of people never could. So it's good ro you if you fit the governments image of what a person should be, but they have so many restrictions on that that in most cases it's not worth it.

 

[MikeRaw]

These intelligent posts sum up the entire argument. Well said.

I have to ask... Were you being sarcastic there, or not?

 

[C4]

I have to ask... Were you being sarcastic there, or not?

Lol. I wasn't being sarcastic. >_>

Those two posts indeed sum up the entire argument.

 

[MikeRaw]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/06/03/bin.laden.message/index.html
Guess he's still alive.

 

[Wrestling Station]

the fact even WS, who lives there, and doesn't like me at all, agrees with me is self-explanatory.

The fact that I had lunch today at an italian restaurant (Viaggo) with my family, and I dont hold beef against others and im in good mood today; I can safely say that the hatred is zero towards you dude.

Also, for your own defence, you always express your points, yes sometimes you go overboard with them but in general you stick to your thoughts and try to bring proves to stand with your claims or thoughts, and that what I respect in you.

Oh, i was just talking about the government, not specifically the religion, but it does tie in, obviously.
Kinda right there.


Yeah, the natives may believe that ignoring negate thoughts toward their government or religion is something to be proud of, but that's how governments and religious leaders control people. In America, everything is questioned (some take it too far and actually make people want to take away their right of free speech, but they can't have that taken away). A lot of the right-wing conservatives say that if you question right-wing activities that you are against America....I've heard it myself many times. But the truth is that the reason America was and is anywhere near as good as it is, is because no one group ever had total control. In my opinion, questioning decisions should be praised, not condemned. Questioning can always help iron out flaws in plans.
Its true, but IMO what made the USA successful in most of the fields is that they always look for opportunities and never get a lose hand from it. Opportunists tbh.
And they dont think about the money (arab world always think about fame and money [most not all tbh]) but anyway, the USA always think about the future but arab world think about the current time of living.
Before, the arab world was much better as the mentality was different back then. But now things are not looking good and thats why they are easily ignored by the other countries and its just bad.


Yeah, your country is doing great in that aspect, and I could definitely see the appeal in giving up some civil liberties for that kind of economic security, but I know a lot of people never could. So it's good ro you if you fit the governments image of what a person should be, but they have so many restrictions on that that in most cases it's not worth it.

Our country is small, really small and when something like this happens it really means alot as every fuckin dude here is known to others (family or friend) and it would be embaressing for a minister to be kicked out as all the country know him and he knows them. Think of it like this, you live in a small city that every one there knows exactly your past and your family one by one, then if you got in trouble; just think of the embaressment you would get from all the people you know. Then how about a whole country?! thats way beyond embaressement (I call it rape lol).

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/06/03/bin.laden.message/index.html
Guess he's still alive.

recorded? hmm as its not live video; I still doubt that he is alive imo.

 

[MikeRaw]

I'm not saying he's definately alive. I figured he'd be dead by now too. But if it's actually him in the video, and not some impersonater, than he's still alive, because even though it's not live, it's recent, seeign as he talks shit about Obama and his presidency.

 

[Italian Outsider]

The fact that I had lunch today at an italian restaurant (Viaggo) with my family, and I dont hold beef against others and im in good mood today; I can safely say that the hatred is zero towards you dude.

okay. if you say so...

 

[C4]

Anybody got links to his most recently released audio tape?

Sadly, I can't find it anywhere.