Agree or Disagree: Japanese Wrestling in general(NJPW, AJPW, etc.) is overall better than the WWE...

[Stopspot]

No, I'm not. I am correct. Japanese are known for being secretive in their business dealings, even its wrestling promotions. They are not going to blab some business ventures to sports magazines and potentially risk losing millions of dollars in the process. That is just naivete and not good business. Word to the wise: Take any information with a grain of salt from those scoop magazines.

I'm reading New Japan World's streaming service site and, from the looks of it, has matches from the 1990's. It features Antonio Inoki's matches from 1976, 1978, 1979, pretty much his matches from the early 1980's. TV Asahi is not going to just lend those Inoki matches from its tape library out of the pure altruistic goodness of its heart to NJPW World. In all likelihood, NJPW has ownership of those tapes.

Tokyo Sports is not a scoop magazine ffs. It's like the oldest and most respected sports magazine in Japan. And wrestling promoters, Kidani of New Japan in particular give a lot of interviews discussing their businesses and how they wish to evolve it and what they are working on (New Japan's new America territory being a good recent example) all the time. It's a well established fact.

TV Asashi owns half of New Japan world so that's how NJPW has access to those tapes for the service.

I've followed Japanese wrestling for half a decade. I know people who have followed and covered it for close to two decades. Heck. I say what I say with confidence. I wouldn't be saying what I am saying if I wasn't sure of it.

Japanese wrestling is far from the clandestine business you make it out to be.

 

[Jacob Fox]

The idea that the Japanese are secretive about things, including business, is actually not true and in Japan is considered to be a very derogatory stereotype. A main reason that this stereotype exists is due to the vast difference between Japanese and English communication. The Japanese have a communication style known as ichi ieba ju wakuru, which roughly translates to "You hear one but understand ten." The Japanese language itself relies largely upon knowing what someone is talking about without them actually coming out and saying it. Very seldomly will they even use a subject in a sentence. They have a very difficult time trying to understand that others don't know what they are talking about.

I'd be actually very careful about telling Japanese people, businessmen or otherwise, that they are being secretive. They will likely take offense to that akin any other racial or cultural stereotype. Before I learned Japanese and before I began working for a Japanese university doing translation work, I was aware of this idea. It is however, not accurate.

 

[Geese]

Tokyo Sports is not a scoop magazine ffs. It's like the oldest and most respected sports magazine in Japan. And wrestling promoters, Kidani of New Japan in particular give a lot of interviews discussing their businesses and how they wish to evolve it and what they are working on (New Japan's new America territory being a good recent example) all the time. It's a well established fact.

TV Asashi owns half of New Japan world so that's how NJPW has access to those tapes for the service.

I've followed Japanese wrestling for half a decade. I know people who have followed and covered it for close to two decades. Heck. I say what I say with confidence. I wouldn't be saying what I am saying if I wasn't sure of it.

Japanese wrestling is far from the clandestine business you make it out to be.

Following Japanese wrestling on the 'net for five years makes you a Japanese wrestling mark, not an expert. In your prior comments you mentioned the NJPW owner couldn't get access to the vintage tape library and that was wrong. I'm doing a casual browsing of its New Japan World streaming site and it contains quite a lot of matches from the 70's and 80's.

For someone who follows Japanese wrestling as a diehard mark you seem to denigrate it quite a bit here: In your prior comments, you said New Japan Pro Wrestling winning Wrestling Observer's 2016 Best Weekly TV Show was "a joke" because the show is a "cut and paste" job. New Japan has to transfer those matches over to the United States to have Jim Ross, Josh Barnett, or Maruo Ranallo do English commentary. Even if those matches are six months old, so what? I don't have problems whatsoever with pre-taped wrestling programming and neither do the hundreds of thousands fans who watch NJPW on AXS.

You prefer WWE and the Cruiserweight Classics but wasn't it Vince McMahon who was the innovator of the pre-recorded, canned programming? Back in the 1980's and the 1990's Vince McMahon pre-taped his shows WWF Superstars, Wrestling Challenge, Prime Time Wrestling, and Monday Night Raw. The audience didn't have an issue with it back in the day.

I don't subscribe to the WWE Network but I'm guessing a lot of its programming isn't aired Live and is pre-taped.

 

[Stopspot]

Following Japanese wrestling on the 'net for five years makes you a Japanese wrestling mark, not an expert. In your prior comments you mentioned the NJPW owner couldn't get access to the vintage tape library and that was wrong. I'm doing a casual browsing of its New Japan World streaming site and it contains quite a lot of matches from the 70's and 80's.

For someone who follows Japanese wrestling as a diehard mark you seem to denigrate it quite a bit here: In your prior comments, you said New Japan Pro Wrestling winning Wrestling Observer's 2016 Best Weekly TV Show was "a joke" because the show is a "cut and paste" job. New Japan has to transfer those matches over to the United States to have Jim Ross, Josh Barnett, or Maruo Ranallo do English commentary. Even if those matches are six months old, so what? I don't have problems whatsoever with pre-taped wrestling programming and neither do the hundreds of thousands fans who watch NJPW on AXS.

You prefer WWE and the Cruiserweight Classics but wasn't it Vince McMahon who was the innovator of the pre-recorded, canned programming? Back in the 1980's and the 1990's Vince McMahon pre-taped his shows WWF Superstars, Wrestling Challenge, Prime Time Wrestling, and Monday Night Raw. The audience didn't have an issue with it back in the day.

I don't subscribe to the WWE Network but I'm guessing a lot of its programming isn't aired Live and is pre-taped.

Did I ever mention I prefered WWE? I hardly watch it. I'm an All Japan man if anything. Them's my jam.

Again. New Japan does not own their historical tape catalog. I've been pretty clear about this. As good as no Japanese promotions do. Not NOAH, not All Japan, not DDT, not Dragon Gate and so on. The tape libraries are owned by the TV stations/production companies since they are the ones producing. Almost no wrestling promotions in Japan have their own camera crews ala WWE. The station sends out a crew when they record a show. That's why we aren't likely to see a All Japan subscription service in the near future, or a Dragon Gate one. And that's why when we see a New Japan show that they've recorded themselves for World, it's usually just one camera.

New Japan have access to their historical back catalog for World because TV Asashi own a stake in it and get a monthly payment for it.

I have no problem with pre-taped programming. I have a problem with giving NJPW the cred for the show when it is AXS who puts it together. That New Japan have a successful show in the US thanks to AXS is grand. And I can see them getting more hands on with it once the US-territory is up and running. But that's still miles away from actually happening.

 

[Geese]

Did I ever mention I prefered WWE? I hardly watch it. I'm an All Japan man if anything. Them's my jam.

Again. New Japan does not own their historical tape catalog. I've been pretty clear about this. As good as no Japanese promotions do. Not NOAH, not All Japan, not DDT, not Dragon Gate and so on. The tape libraries are owned by the TV stations/production companies since they are the ones producing. Almost no wrestling promotions in Japan have their own camera crews ala WWE. The station sends out a crew when they record a show. That's why we aren't likely to see a All Japan subscription service in the near future, or a Dragon Gate one.

New Japan have access to their historical back catalog for World because TV Asashi own a stake in it and get a monthly payment for it.

I have no problem with pre-taped programming. I have a problem with giving NJPW the cred for the show when it is AXS who puts it together. That New Japan have a successful show in the US thanks to AXS is grand. And I can see them getting more hands on with it once the US-territory is up and running. But that's still miles away from actually happening.

You hardly watch WWE but you thought CWC should be the Wrestling Observer 2016 winner of the Best Weekly Show. Okay, got it.

NJPW has its initials on the show. It's New Japan's brand. New Japan's wrestlers. New Japan airs its programming on AXS TV. AXS does the editing because there's such a thing called advertisers and they have to cut to a commercial break to pay the bills.

You are wrong to say NJPW is getting the credit for the show because it's New Japan's show which is being aired on an American cable network. Your argument is illogical.

One more thing, hasn't All-Japan been in rebuilding mode since the late 1990's?

 

[Stopspot]

You hardly watch WWE but you thought CWC should be the Wrestling Observer 2016 winner of the Best Weekly Show. Okay, got it.

NJPW has its initials on the show. It's New Japan's brand. New Japan's wrestlers. New Japan airs its programming on AXS TV. AXS does the editing because there's such a thing called advertisers and they have to cut to a commercial break to pay the bills.

You are wrong to say NJPW is getting the credit for the show because it's New Japan's show which is being aired on an American cable network. Your argument is illogical.

One more thing, hasn't All-Japan been in rebuilding mode since the late 1990's?

I'm going to just stop our current argument because I do think we are mainly talking circles around each other at this point. But I'll gladly talk All Japan. (I did watch the entire CWC however and loved it)

All Japan is possibly the most fucked over company in the history of wrestling. It seems like they have a talent exodus roughly once a decade (Tenryuu in the late 80s, NOAH and the Wrestle-1 exodus in 2013) so yeah. They've been a rollercoaster for some time. But they've been doing much better and are much more stable since Jun Akiyama took over in mid 2014. Akiyama basically allowed the company to burn to the ground (like a standard hosue show drew 150 people in 2015) and relocated the company to Yokohama and restructured it. And it's been a strong upswing ever since. They did a lot of recovering in 2016 (going from running 4 shows in January to 11 shows in December) and topped it off by returning to Sumo Hall for the first time in 5 years, drawing 6522 people (of which about 5500 were legit buyers, the others were tickets bought by sponsors and handed out to employees and such), and in 2017 they will run two mayor building shows. So they seem to finally be on the up and up. They're stable financially for the first time since Mutoh took over basically and have a new structure that allows them to make profit in their current size.

They are far far far from their hayday, and I don't think they can get back there again. Wrestling is just too niche and small in Japan these days for two companies on that level. But I do think they can get to a Dragon Gate level of doing 3-4 shows a year with 5000 people crowds with some more love and care. They have all the tools needed now with a loyal and passionate fanbase, young talent that are talented and over, and a true ace in Kento Miyahara.

They're still in rebuilding mode, but this time they did not build with rotten wood for once.

 

[Geese]

So you prefer a dismal company which has made repeated bad business decisions for nearly twenty years but you have issues with a hot promotion which has a US television deal because it doesn't send its own camera crew over to tape the matches? Are you stupid? You originally claimed you hardly watch WWE but admitted you watched the entire Cruiserweight series--this makes you a WWE mark, whether you want to hear it or not.

You ever stop to think the reason why All Japan is the most "fucked" company in wrestling is because they fucked themselves over?

If the negotiations for the historical tape library were like pulling teeth, as you say it, then why are so many of Inoki's matches liberally shown on New Japan's streaming site? There are over 100 Inoki matches on the site. There's old school matches on its site featuring Hulk Hogan, Atsushi Onita, Brusier Brody. For TV Asahi to be this difficult in negotiations they're pretty lenient in allowing NJPW World to air vintage wrestling matches on NJPW's streaming site.

You claim Japanese promotions are blabbermouths who air out their business to the media but isn't this an offensive stereotype in itself? Your argument is Japanese are gossips who can't be trusted to keep business information confidential.

 

[Stopspot]

I wouldn't call 2017 All Japan a "dismal promotion". Mid 200s AJPW? Probably. 2013-2015 AJPW? Most def. 2017? Nah.

Heck, I thought we were having a nice little discussion here.

 

[Geese]

I wouldn't call 2017 All Japan a "dismal promotion". Mid 200s AJPW? Probably. 2013-2015 AJPW? Most def. 2017? Nah.

Heck, I thought we were having a nice little discussion here.

We were having an argument over camera crews and a tape library.

 

[Stopspot]

More like we had a discussion. A spat at most

 

[Geese]

More like we had a discussion. A spat at most

Yeah, a spat over a dismal wrestling promotion which doesn't even have a consistent TV deal in their own country.

 

[Stopspot]

Yeah, a spat over a dismal wrestling promotion which doesn't even have a consistent TV deal in their own country.

Erm. All Japan have 3 monthly guaranteed TV shows. Depending on sports schedules they get an extra show if they have a big tour.

Not even New Japan had guaranteed weekly TV in Japan. They had 2-3 monthly shows before they got world running and the TV became secondary.

 

[Geese]

Erm. All Japan have 3 monthly guaranteed TV shows. Depending on sports schedules they get an extra show if they have a big tour.

Not even New Japan had guaranteed weekly TV in Japan. They had 2-3 monthly shows before they got world running and the TV became secondary.

All Japan has a guaranteed TV deal? But didn't you say in your prior remarks that "All Japan had a live show pushed back late last year because Gaora said 'fuck the wrestling, we're finishing this women's volleyball game.' So once the wrestling started half the show had already passed."

I would hardly call that a guaranteed TV deal.

 

[Stopspot]

All Japan has a guaranteed TV deal? But didn't you say in your prior remarks that "All Japan had a live show pushed back late last year because Gaora said 'fuck the wrestling, we're finishing this women's volleyball game.' So once the wrestling started half the show had already passed."

I would hardly call that a guaranteed TV deal.

They are guaranteed a slot. But that slot is not set in stone. It's not "every third Tuesday at 8pm". It's "wherever we feel like we can put you in".

That's the deal for almost all wrestling in Japan with a TV deal. No one has a guaranteed set in stone time slot. The TV channels set their schedules month by month (like with real sports where the broadcasters pick what games to air). It also comes down to which network.

GAORA Sports, where All Japan and Wrestle-1 have 1 guaranteed show a month and Dragon Gate has 2, are one of if not the biggest commercial sports network on Japanese TV. So they will always prioritize "real sports" over the wrestling. So they usually just air shows on tape delay rather than live to try and avoid stuff like with the volleyball game I mentioned earlier. All Japan usually get 2 shows live on GAORA per year nowadays and Wrestle-1 get 1. Dragon Gate is treated much better but that is because GAORA are a invester in Dragon Gate.

Samurai TV is much quicker at broadcasting shows (quicker turnover from recording to airing) and are also more willing to air shows live. But they are also a much smaller niched channel aimed at pro wrestling and MMA. All Japan has 1-2 shows a month on there per month as has most other companies of not in today's wrestling landscape except Wrestle-1 and Dragon Gate (DG because of GAORA, no idea why W-1 isn't regularly on Samurai).

Then their third show is on a channel called BS11, which is from what I understand basically the home shopping network. But that show is basically just an hour of advertising what went down in the last month and were All Japan are touring in the upcoming month as well as interviews with wrestlers.

New Japan are obviously not as reliant on regular TV anymore since they have world, but they still do 1 show on Samurai per month at least. And a few live shows per year on Asashi (G1 finals, Wrestle Kingdom and such) that air in simulcast.

The closest promotion in Japan today to our more western "weekly TV" structure is Dragon Gate with their 2 shows on GAORA per month, but just like with the rest they don't have a guaranteed day and timeslot. It shifts every month.

I had a friend who does the whole IPTV thing from Japan to get all the wrestling explain the jungle that this is to me once. It's a wacky relationship between TV and wrestling in Japan.

 

[Geese]

They are guaranteed a slot. But that slot is not set in stone. It's not "every third Tuesday at 8pm". It's "wherever we feel like we can put you in".

If a show is guaranteed a slot it is often times set in stone. If it isn't then it isn't guaranteed. A network putting a wrestling show whenever it feels like it is not the same as giving All Japan a three-month guaranteed contract.