Agree or Disagree: Japanese Wrestling in general(NJPW, AJPW, etc.) is overall better than the WWE...

[Geese]

I brought up the G1 as an example of NJPW's wrestling style. NJPW does tournaments New Japan Cup, The Best of Super Juniors, World Tag League, and G1 Climax. It is structured into their promotion. You are right WWE shows are moving their product towards the pay-per-views where the memorable stuff happens but most of the memorable stuff is not as memorable as the matches which gets put out by New Japan on its weekly shows. Many of those matches are NJPW shows like Power Struggle, King of Pro Wrestling, and Destruction in Hirsoshima.

For Japanese wrestling which isn't a TV medium NJPW is doing one helluva job with its product: New Japan won 2016's Wrestling Observer Best Weekly TV Show which is a laudable achievement. They have the best announcing team in wrestling today with Jim Ross and Josh Barnett.

To watch an old WWE pay-per-view on Direct TV such as Beast in the East or Summer Slam 2015 it's $3.99 for a two-day rental, which means I can not watch the show at my convenience. Wrestle Kingdom 11 was aired at no additional charge on New Japan's AXS show.

 

[Stopspot]

I brought up the G1 as an example of NJPW's wrestling style. NJPW does tournaments New Japan Cup, The Best of Super Juniors, World Tag League, and G1 Climax. It is structured into their promotion. You are right WWE shows are moving their product towards the pay-per-views where the memorable stuff happens but most of the memorable stuff is not as memorable as the matches which gets put out by New Japan on its weekly shows. Many of those matches are NJPW shows like Power Struggle, King of Pro Wrestling, and Destruction in Hirsoshima.

For Japanese wrestling which isn't a TV medium NJPW is doing one helluva job with its product: New Japan won 2016's Wrestling Observer Best Weekly TV Show which is a laudable achievement. They have the best announcing team in wrestling today with Jim Ross and Josh Barnett.

To watch an old WWE pay-per-view on Direct TV such as Beast in the East or Summer Slam 2015 it's $3.99 for a two-day rental, which means I can not watch the show at my convenience. Wrestle Kingdom 11 was aired at no additional charge on New Japan's AXS show.

NJPW doesn't have a weekly show.

NJPW doesn't even touch the AXS show. That's all on AXS (they literally buy match rights off TV asashi and cut and paste them with English commentary). Of course a cut and paste show with high end ppv matches from new japan is going to come off as "better" than your regular wrestling TV.


and the fact that a cut and paste show featuring old new japan matches won best TV in the observer awards is a joke. Especially considering that shows like the CWC were not even allowed in that bracket.

Another factor is that AXS cherry picks what matches they will show on the show. You're only going to get the best matches, and not the regular 2-3 star chores to watch matches that guys like Yujiro and Taichi put out.

 

[Geese]

When I checked the internet, Power Struggle, King of Pro Wrestling, and Destruction in Hirsoshima weren't ppvs, these were regular shows. NJPW does have a weekly show. It's on every Fridays. AXS renewed NJPW's show for an additional seventeen episodes this season which means New Japan has got to be doing something right. They have to do a "cut and paste" job because when these matches transfer to America AXS TV has Jim Ross, Josh Barnett, or Mauro Ranallo do the English commentary.

If AXS cherry picks what matches to show on its programming they're not very good at cherry picking. This past year, they've put out mediocre matches like Tetsuya Naito vs. Toru Yano, Rappongi Vice vs. ACH & Taiji Ishimori, Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Toru Yano, Hirooki Goto vs. EVIL, Tiger Mask vs. Red Death Mask, Yuji Nagata vs. Karl Anderson, and Mike Bennett & Matt Taven vs. Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows for the IWGP Tag team titles.

And, by the way, New Japan does air Yujiro Takahashi's matches. They featured his matches against Tomoaki Honma in the G1 Climax 25; him teaming up with Bad Luck Fale against Tetsuya Naito & Tomoaki Honma; and his six-man tag team match from Wrestle Kingdom 11.

Doesn't Wrestling Observer allows it readers to vote for the awards? Because Wrestling Observer readers voted WWE NXT as the best weekly show in 2013, 2014, and 2015. CWC was, in fact, included in the bracket. Voters had a choice to vote for Cruiserweight Classics. If they didn't vote for CWC and chose New Japan this means voters saw CWC as an inferior product and felt NJPW was the better of the two shows.

 

[Stopspot]

When I checked the internet, Power Struggle, King of Pro Wrestling, and Destruction in Hirsoshima weren't ppvs, these were regular shows. NJPW does have a weekly show. It's on every Fridays. AXS renewed NJPW's show for an additional seventeen episodes this season which means New Japan has got to be doing something right. They have to do a "cut and paste" job because these when these matches transfer to America AXS TV has Jim Ross, Josh Barnett, or Mauro Ranallo do the English commentary.

If AXS cherry picks what matches to show on its programming they're not very good at cherry picking. This past year, they've put out mediocre matches like Tetsuya Naito vs. Toru Yano, Rappongi Vice vs. ACH & Taiji Ishimori, Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Toru Yano, Hirooki Goto vs. EVIL, Tiger Mask vs. Red Death Mask, Yuji Nagata vs. Karl Anderson, and Mike Bennett & Matt Taven vs. Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows for the IWGP Tag team titles.

And, by the way, New Japan does air Yujiro Takahashi's matches. They featured his matches against Tomoaki Honma in the G1 Climax 25; him teaming up with Bad Luck Fale against Tetsuya Naito & Tomoaki Honma; and his six-man tag team match from Wrestle Kingdom 11.

Doesn't Wrestling Observer allows it readers to vote for the awards? Because Wrestling Observer readers voted WWE NXT as the best weekly show in 2013, 2014, and 2015. CWC was, in fact, included in the bracket. Voters had a choice to vote for Cruiserweight Classics. If they didn't vote for CWC and chose New Japan this means voters saw CWC as an inferior product and felt NJPW was the better of the two shows.

Power Struggle, King of Pro Wrestling and Destruction are PPVs. Like with WWE they have moved to a monthly subscription basis. But these shows are historically ppvs and are to be treated as such.

To say that New Japan has a weekly US TV show sounds very asinine when they have no hand in the production of it outside of putting on the matches.

 

[MrEdzhuks]

Disagreed.
If it was better, then I guess this would be called "NJPW Forums".
WWE has a lot deeper roster with worldwide known talents, meanwhile Japan is a place for wrestlers to develop their talent, character etc. like indie companies.
Minus for WWE is that they restrict their wrestlers both in ring and on the mic, meanwhile in New Japan, you wouldn't be so held back and make impact in spite of anyone.
NJPW has too many tag matches, they have a 3-man tag team championship for God's sake.
WWE's presentation is miles ahead of any other wrestling company in the world. For me, wrestling is 70% presentation, 30% wrestling. If a wrestler doesn't have a cool entrance, theme and ring gear, I don't care about them.
Those are just a few reasons why I disagree with this argument.

 

[Geese]

Power Struggle, King of Pro Wrestling and Destruction are PPVs. Like with WWE they have moved to a monthly subscription basis. But these shows are historically ppvs and are to be treated as such.

To say that New Japan has a weekly US TV show sounds very asinine when they have no hand in the production of it outside of putting on the matches.

To say New Japan Pro Wrestling has no say-so in the production of its own programming is silly: It's New Japan's brand. NJPW didn't become a multi-million dollar business by allowing networks to do whatever it wants with its content.

 

[Stopspot]

To say New Japan Pro Wrestling has no say-so in the production of its own programming is silly: It's New Japan's brand. NJPW didn't become a multi-million dollar business by allowing networks to do whatever it wants with its content.

Considering Japanese wrestling companies don't own their own broadcasted shows if they air on TV it's not that much of a stretch to be honest.

 

[Geese]

Considering Japanese wrestling companies don't own their own broadcasted shows if they air on TV it's not that much of a stretch to be honest.

Japanese wrestling companies don't own their own broadcasted shows? Come on, man, it doesn't get anymore asinine than that!

In order to know this information you have to be a business executive working for the Asahi corporation and have access to contracts between New Japan Pro Wrestling and AXS TV.

I'm a wrestling fan but I don't take everything I read on a reddit forum seriously.

 

[Stopspot]

Japanese wrestling companies don't own their own broadcasted shows? Come on, man, it doesn't get anymore asinine than that!

In order to know this information you have to be a business executive working for the Asahi corporation and have access to contracts between New Japan Pro Wrestling and AXS TV.

I'm a wrestling fan but I don't take everything I read on a reddit forum seriously.

This is pretty well established. Kidani of new Japan have confirmed it (it's why they don't have everything historically on world. Asashi won't give them all the tapes).
G+ owns most of the NOAH tape library, again confirmed by Kidani since NJPW tried to buy it.
Nobuo Shiraishi, who owned All Japan for a brief stint in 2011-2014 has also confirmed this in regards to the All Japan tape library being owned by Nippon TV, Gaora sports and Samurai TV.

It's business standard for wrestling on TV in Japan. The broadcaster owns the tape library and call all the shots in regards to show lengths and airtime slots. Not even New Japan are powerful enough to get a weekly/set airtime slot when their stuff airs outside of world. They take what is given to them and do it with a smile on their face.

Hell. All Japan had a live show pushed back late last year because Gaora said "fuck the wrestling, we're finishing this women's volleyball game". So once the wrestling started half the show had already passed. It's a main factor in why New Japan created New Japan world, so they have a easier way to get shows out there when they want to. And the negotiations for the historical tape library were apparently like pulling teeth.

This isn't even a phenomenon that's sprung up because of wrestling's decline in the 00s. TV companies called the shots back in the Baba and Inoki days as well. Nippon TV loved Giant Baba so he and All Japan as a result were treated very well. But the TV broadcasters have always held the power in the relationship between Japanese wrestling and Japanese TV.

Thus why it isn't as much of a TV medium in Japan.

 

[Geese]

This is pretty well established. Kidani of new Japan have confirmed it (it's why they don't have everything historically on world. Asashi won't give them all the tapes).
G+ owns most of the NOAH tape library, again confirmed by Kidani since NJPW tried to buy it.
Nobuo Shiraishi, who owned All Japan for a brief stint in 2011-2014 has also confirmed this in regards to the All Japan tape library being owned by Nippon TV, Gaora sports and Samurai TV.

It's business standard for wrestling on TV in Japan. The broadcaster owns the tape library and call all the shots in regards to show lengths and airtime slots. Not even New Japan are powerful enough to get a weekly/set airtime slot when their stuff airs outside of world. They take what is given to them and do it with a smile on their face.

Hell. All Japan had a live show pushed back late last year because Gaora said "fuck the wrestling, we're finishing this women's volleyball game". So once the wrestling started half the show had already passed. It's a main factor in why New Japan created New Japan world, so they have a easier way to get shows out there when they want to. And the negotiations for the historical tape library were apparently like pulling teeth.

This isn't even a phenomenon that's sprung up because of wrestling's decline in the 00s. TV companies called the shots back in the Baba and Inoki days as well. Nippon TV loved Giant Baba so he and All Japan as a result were treated very well. But the TV broadcasters have always held the power in the relationship between Japanese wrestling and Japanese TV.

Thus why it isn't as much of a TV medium in Japan.

Professional wrestling is, indeed, a television medium in Japan which is why New Japan Pro Wrestling is a hot company and a multi-million dollar corporation. In Japan, professional wrestling is treated respectfully, more as a sport, unlike in the United States where it's considered entertainment.

You are right that television networks call the shots. It's like that even in America with the USA Network calling the shots with WWE programming but USA Network doesn't own the tape library; Vince McMahon owns the tape library. It works the same way in New Japan, too. New Japan owns the tape library and the networks airs the shows.

Japanese are well known for being secretive in their business dealings. They are not going to air out any information about buying a NOAH tape library from a network or who owns the tape library of which promotion. I would take any information which is on the internet with a grain of salt.

 

[Jacob Fox]

Disagreed.
If it was better, then I guess this would be called "NJPW Forums".

Not really since the forum was named by a WWE fan. That one person's opinion on wrestling and what is better is not the end all and be all of which is better.

WWE has a lot deeper roster with worldwide known talents, meanwhile Japan is a place for wrestlers to develop their talent, character etc. like indie companies.

Not really true. Although plenty of wrestlers come from Japanese promotions into WWE and other American promotions, it happens in the reverse just as much. In fact, for much of the 1990's, New Japan was the number one promotion in the entire world. Hulk Hogan himself once ridiculed the WWF championship and compared it to a Christmas tree ornament compared to the IWGP belt... and he said this while he was WWF Champion.

In fact, plenty of wrestlers in Japan look at American wrestling the way you look at Japanese. In reality, it is a two way street.

NJPW has too many tag matches, they have a 3-man tag team championship for God's sake

I'm with you on this one.
.

WWE's presentation is miles ahead of any other wrestling company in the world. For me, wrestling is 70% presentation, 30% wrestling. If a wrestler doesn't have a cool entrance, theme and ring gear, I don't care about them.

This would be the crux of my disagreement with you. For me, wrestling should mostly be wrestling and not bogged down with presentation and story lines. This might have a lot to do with me being older than most people here and I grew up with wrestling being mostly wrestling. There were no long ring promos like now. There was little if any backstage stories going on. Wrestling was wrestling, not the soap opera with occasional fighting that it is now. That's probably why I like Japanese wrestling better. It's wrestling.

And I am not saying you're wrong. We all have our preferences and are entitled to them.

 

[Jacob Fox]

And I have to go with other. Japanese wrestling and American wrestling are just too different to really compare.

Yeah, New Japan is my favorite promotion. But I probably watch more WWE than New Japan, even though I have New Japan World. WWE puts out more content and I enjoy the content. But it's different. I watch WWE and other American wrestling because it tells a story, sometimes good and sometimes bad. But it mostly tells the story through actual words and segments which are then supplemented by matches.

In turn, I think most Japanese wrestling tells the story through their matches. Personally I prefer the style of wrestling I get from Japanese promotions. But I wouldn't call either better. They really are too different to do that. It would almost be like me the Chicago Cubs are a better baseball team than the Patriots are a football team. That's a nonsensical comparison.

 

[MrEdzhuks]

And I am not saying you're wrong. We all have our preferences and are entitled to them.

Exactly :bodallas:

 

[Stopspot]

Professional wrestling is, indeed, a television medium in Japan which is why New Japan Pro Wrestling is a hot company and a multi-million dollar corporation. In Japan, professional wrestling is treated respectfully, more as a sport, unlike in the United States where it's considered entertainment.

You are right that television networks call the shots. It's like that even in America with the USA Network calling the shots with WWE programming but USA Network doesn't own the tape library; Vince McMahon owns the tape library. It works the same way in New Japan, too. New Japan owns the tape library and the networks airs the shows.

Japanese are well known for being secretive in their business dealings. They are not going to air out any information about buying a NOAH tape library from a network or who owns the tape library of which promotion. I would take any information which is on the internet with a grain of salt.

No. New Japan does not own its tape library. TV Asashi does.

That is firmly established by the owner of New Japan itself.

You are also wrong about the Japanese being secretive in their business dealings. At least in regards to wrestling. The wrestling promotions are big blabbermouths and give multiple interviews to magazines like Tokyo Sports about their business and deals they are working on every year.

 

[Geese]

No. New Japan does not own its tape library. TV Asashi does.

That is firmly established by the owner of New Japan itself.

You are also wrong about the Japanese being secretive in their business dealings. At least in regards to wrestling. The wrestling promotions are big blabbermouths and give multiple interviews to magazines like Tokyo Sports about their business and deals they are working on every year.

No, I'm not. I am correct. Japanese are known for being secretive in their business dealings, even its wrestling promotions. They are not going to blab some business ventures to sports magazines and potentially risk losing millions of dollars in the process. That is just naivete and not good business. Word to the wise: Take any information with a grain of salt from those scoop magazines.

I'm reading New Japan World's streaming service site and, from the looks of it, has matches from the 1990's. It features Antonio Inoki's matches from 1976, 1978, 1979, pretty much his matches from the early 1980's. TV Asahi is not going to just lend those Inoki matches from its tape library out of the pure altruistic goodness of its heart to NJPW World. In all likelihood, NJPW has ownership of those tapes.