AEW Collision/WBD upfronts MegaThread

[Smart Marx]

The funny thing is people associate great storylines and promos with sports entertainment and I think that's completely inaccurate. Many of the great storylines have come from ECW, ROH, Japanese promotions and other places branded as "real wrestling" or "alternative" or whatever you wanna apply. To me the shit that makes something sports entertainment is the nature of the segments, use of skits, celebrities, non-wrestlers, etc. or jusy having a product that revolves around angles where the matches are basically just tools to advance a story.

I both agree and disagree. I think most modern wrestling products have adapted some form of sports entertainment. It doesn’t mean it has to go full blown with it like WWE has, but I think if you look at any wrestling product prior to say 1986 and almost any today you can see how the product has evolved.

ECW, ROH etc I would argue all have elements of sports entertainment. I would even say many elements of current wwe sports entertainment evolved by replicating products like ECW etc.

 

[Hoss]

I both agree and disagree. I think most modern wrestling products have adapted some form of sports entertainment. It doesn’t mean it has to go full blown with it like WWE has, but I think if you look at any wrestling product prior to say 1986 and almost any today you can see how the product has evolved.

ECW, ROH etc I would argue all have elements of sports entertainment. I would even say many elements of current wwe sports entertainment evolved by replicating products like ECW etc.

Okay then go back to territorial days then, pre-anything Rock n Wrestling.... they did storylines with insane heat and turns back to at least the 70s. To me the sports entertainment moniker basically equates to lessening the emphasis on match quality and fluffing shit up to give it more mass appeal, the way that Vince did to bring WWF to the power it would become. But on that note, I don't think it's as binary as you're either sports entertainment or not. Like you said, through the years there have been many different influences that bleed into all different companies and their product.

 

[Comrade Khan]

I don't wanna sound like a know it all but God dammit I swear every time he or Meltzer has a report that I'm like "eh doesn't make sense" the fuckers correct it lmao

nah bro it's been happening a lot more since Brawl Out too, it's not just you lol. Remember the Saudi sale stuff as an extreme example?

 

[Smart Marx]

Okay then go back to territorial days then, pre-anything Rock n Wrestling.... they did storylines with insane heat and turns back to at least the 70s. To me the sports entertainment moniker basically equates to lessening the emphasis on match quality and fluffing shit up to give it more mass appeal, the way that Vince did to bring WWF to the power it would become. But on that note, I don't think it's as binary as you're either sports entertainment or not. Like you said, through the years there have been many different influences that bleed into all different companies and their product.

To me match quality has nothing really to with sports entertainment in and of itself. Like I said that’s because WWE decided to go all in on one presentation. I agree where you say it’s not a binary. I think the vast majority of pro wrestling today has elements of sports entertainment to varying degrees.

To me sports entertainment is anything that adds an element of soap operas. This is the introduction of backstage segments that are produced, taped and aired in rather than having an interviewer by the stage or in the ring live. Especially segments that feature wild angles in locker rooms or the parking lot. Stuff that adds more of a television show atmosphere.

Not saying wrestling never had angles. Pro wrestling has always been about telling stories, but there’s definitely a difference between when everything happened in the ring and the storyline were always this guy wants this guy’s belt so he tried to take out his eye in the ring and the various storylines we do now that we have television quality cameras and time to produce stuff in advance etc.

 

[Comrade Khan]

I both agree and disagree. I think most modern wrestling products have adapted some form of sports entertainment. It doesn’t mean it has to go full blown with it like WWE has, but I think if you look at any wrestling product prior to say 1986 and almost any today you can see how the product has evolved.

ECW, ROH etc I would argue all have elements of sports entertainment. I would even say many elements of current wwe sports entertainment evolved by replicating products like ECW etc.

hot take, sports entertainment is just a wwe term and storytelling, angles and all that stuff was already a part of wrestling and always has been. WWE just used that term because they wanted to differentiate themselves from WCW and also probably try to shed the big bad wrestling word. its mostly branding, imo

 

[Chris]

nah bro it's been happening a lot more since Brawl Out too, it's not just you lol. Remember the Saudi sale stuff as an extreme example?

Yeah tbf to that one tho, I don't think SRS or Meltzer ever acted like they believed it. First official report about that I remember on F4W was even "Saudi rumors are not true" lol

 

[Comrade Khan]

its one of those catchall terms too that have lost all meaning for me these days

 

[Comrade Khan]

hot take, sports entertainment is just a wwe term and storytelling, angles and all that stuff was already a part of wrestling and always has been. WWE just used that term because they wanted to differentiate themselves from WCW and also probably try to shed the big bad wrestling word. its mostly branding, imo

you both agreed with me

 

[Smart Marx]

hot take, sports entertainment is just a wwe term and storytelling, angles and all that stuff was already a part of wrestling and always has been. WWE just used that term because they wanted to differentiate themselves from WCW and also probably try to shed the big bad wrestling word. its mostly branding, imo

The word was invented by WWE, but I think it has a legit application when referring to specific elements of pro wrestling. And also, what I said to Hoss in response. There are certain things that evolved since the earlier days of pro wrestling.

WCW also had its own form sports entertainment. To me everything about the NWO with sports entertainment. There quick cut black and white backstage interviews to me was the elevation of sports entertainment that Vince ripped off.

I think sports entertainment just gets a bad rep for meaning exactly what WWE does when it doesn’t have to. Like I said in my first post that you agreed with AEW itself has a nice mixture of pro wrestling and sports entertainment that draws me to it.

 

[Hoss]

To me match quality has nothing really to with sports entertainment in and of itself. Like I said that’s because WWE decided to go all in on one presentation. I agree where you say it’s not a binary. I think the vast majority of pro wrestling today has elements of sports entertainment to varying degrees.

To me sports entertainment is anything that adds an element of soap operas. This is the introduction of backstage segments that are produced, taped and aired in rather than having an interviewer by the stage or in the ring live. Especially segments that feature wild angles in locker rooms or the parking lot. Stuff that adds more of a television show atmosphere.

Not saying wrestling never had angles. Pro wrestling has always been about telling stories, but there’s definitely a difference between when everything happened in the ring and the storyline were always this guy wants this guy’s belt so he tried to take out his eye in the ring and the various storylines we do now that we have television quality cameras and time to produce stuff in advance etc.

I can see all of this. I think to be fair some of these angle types just came about with new technology and more money, but that's not really important to what I was originally trying to say. Which is basically the idea that you only get stories and characters in a sports entertainment product (WWE). If someone's explanation for not watching shit that isn't WWE is that they just like stories and characters.... I'd say that's either an ignorant or at least poorly worded statement because barring some pretty extreme examples, there are comparable characters and stories to be found throughout wrestling and always has been, regardless of if the company is considered sports entertainment or not

 

[Wiseman]

It's cool that AEW is getting a second two hour show. I won't be tuning in Saturdays for the most part just cause socially speaking it's when I'm usually doing stuff. So I'm thankful I have DVR on YouTube. I also hope they don't do the champions in a brand split, alright let me say not all champions. IMO, it would kill the trios title, I just don't see how it would be possible to have enough trios on one brand to keep a title on that specific brand to keep it from getting stale. Also the same goes with the tag titles.

As far as single titles, I'm fine with which ever, it would make the INT. and TNT feel equal which I think they pretty much are (hell I might argue with OC having the strap the international might have been on a higher level recently than the TNT). On the other side I feel like it's a double edge sword to split up the TBS/Women's belts. At first I don't think they were meant to be equal, but now they kind of are just on the merit of what Jade has been doing. However, I feel that the TBS title was meant to be and I feel it should be something to lift up talent from the women's division that isn't meant to be in the main event level of the women's division (clearly a level that Jade is currently, meaning she's as main event in the AEW machine as really Hayter).

Overall it's cool, hopefully I can keep up, but yes between AEW and WWE sometimes it does feel too much between other stuff on media that I enjoy watching.

 

[Chris]

Collision will be the show I can already see myself watching on a delay more often just to skip commercials. Weeknights are whatever, unless I have actual plans, it's just a routine to put on whatever wrestling, saving that half-hour or so by skipping commercials wouldn't make a difference but my weekend time is more valuable

 

[Comrade Khan]

it begins

 

[Comrade Khan]

 

[Wiseman]

No offense, I'm not sticking up for any dirt sheet writers. But doesn't it just feel like if Punk really didn't give a shit he wouldn't have to bring up his name if shit are just rumors and what not. It's like like Alvarez is saying Punk murdered a guy or something. TBH, Punk doing this shit is what makes me think he'll never change and always be an issue in any company at some point down the road when he doesn't like something done.