The Dark Knight Rises

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

To be considered for "greatest trilogy of all time" I would say that they need more than just a cult following, I could go on about Class of Nukem High being one of my favorite trilogies, hence the name, and there are a only couple million people world wide who might actually agree with me, but for every 1 person theres atleast 20 who love Star Wars, I dont see people walking around downtown Toronto dressed up like Ash or Deadites on a normal day, I have seen people dressed up as Stormtroopers on a normal day(I have also seen people in full Federation uniforms on normal days).

In 10 years are people still going to be this crazy about Nolans Batman movies? or are they too going to be seen as cheesy, campy, & passable by the next generation? great trilogies stand the test of time, and is in part why Star Wars is as good as it is. I am already hearing way too many people complain about TDKR, at a concert last night TDKR was the most talked about subject on the patio, and I doubt I heard anything possitive about it, and out of all of my friends that were there, only 2 of them read comics(so before it goes back to me only talking to comic fans). DC has been talking reboot all year, and since the success of Avengers are pulling for their own JLA movie, will people still be praising Bale when the next guy steps in, and starts recruiting for the Justice League?

 

[Keith]

To be considered for "greatest trilogy of all time" I would say that they need more than just a cult following, I could go on about Class of Nukem High being one of my favorite trilogies, hence the name, and there are a only couple million people world wide who might actually agree with me, but for every 1 person theres atleast 20 who love Star Wars, I dont see people walking around downtown Toronto dressed up like Ash or Deadites on a normal day, I have seen people dressed up as Stormtroopers on a normal day(I have also seen people in full Federation uniforms on normal days).

In 10 years are people still going to be this crazy about Nolans Batman movies? or are they too going to be seen as cheesy, campy, & passable by the next generation? great trilogies stand the test of time, and is in part why Star Wars is as good as it is. I am already hearing way too many people complain about TDKR, at a concert last night TDKR was the most talked about subject on the patio, and I doubt I heard anything possitive about it, and out of all of my friends that were there, only 2 of them read comics(so before it goes back to me only talking to comic fans). DC has been talking reboot all year, and since the success of Avengers are pulling for their own JLA movie, will people still be praising Bale when the next guy steps in, and starts recruiting for the Justice League?

But when you use the term greatest then really you should be commenting on how good something actually is not weather it has huge box office appeal. I get what you are saying about the longivty of something that is a fair point, but couldn't you argue that StarWars has sustained itself more down to cyicial marketing than because people actually love the films that much? Another thing to consider is the critics I bet if you rounded up 50 film critics (highly respected ones) than most of them would not think that much of Star Wars. Are you telling me that their view is any less valid than that of the publics?

Thing about the Nukem High point (I did see the first one but not the sequals in case your wondering) is that those films work for their target audience, so while it is unlikely that they will be appearing in any best of lists anytime soon you can't really disreguard them just because they are not maga blockbusters like Star Wars because that was never their aim. Just like to a certain group of people in France I bet the Three Colours films are far more important than the Star Wars films, and I feel the same and that is what film is about personally choice.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

Personally I dont respect a critics views on a movie, I wont even read Aint It Cool unless its to find out about an upcoming movie.

Star Wars is a marketting behemoth, and there is no denying that, but if the love for the original source material wasnt there, I doubt anyone would buy Star Wars videogames, action figures, Clone Wars seasons, comic books(which I am told sell very well, I dont read them), collectable miniature games, clothing, etc. I could use Troma as another example as in the late 80's or early 90's(memory is vague) they released the saturday morning cartoon Toxic Crusaders(which was part Ninja Turtles, part Captain Planet)with a toy line, and the works, which really didnt do very well as it was "too childish" for Troma's established fan base, and most of those children that did watch TC, wanted to watch Toxic Avenger movies which were way too violent, vulgar, & had too much nudity for most parents to allow their children to watch it, regardless of it being Spider-Man like in the fact that Melvin was a simple geek who was bullied in high school(and at work), who gets mutated into a Creature of superhuman size & strength and tries to make his city better(his Troma-Tons are basically a Spider-Sense).

I am disregarding the indy movies, because as you have said yourself, they are not likely to appear on any of the "all time greats" lists, I am in no way saying they are inferior, just that due to them being less known, the chances are great that they wouldnt even get 1 vote. According to facebook, Troma(the entire company) has 36,745 followers, while Star Wars(the entire movie franchise) has 8,450,668(LotR only has 1,317,227, Godfather has 7,707,382). That stat alone tells me that for every Troma fan, there are 230(rounded up) Star Wars fans, with that in mind, do you really see any indy movie reaching the hights Star Wars has?

 

[Keith]

^No but who gives a shit often 90% of what does well comunically I consider to be shit which is part of my point, you like Starwars so of course you would defend it, but I don't you can't really expect me to consider it a great triolgy just because millions of others do.

Also you tend to get too much of fanboy culture around stuff like Starwars and that was part of my point too is that often those sorts of fans will go blindly to see the films and support everything to do with the film weather they think the movies themselves are any good or not.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

Also you tend to get too much of fanboy culture around stuff like Starwars and that was part of my point too is that often those sorts of fans will go blindly to see the films and support everything to do with the film weather they think the movies themselves are any good or not.

This could be said about anything really, in the case of Star Wars I know about 20 people who still havnt watched Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith due to how horrible Phantom Menace was, who still watch A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, & Return of the Jedi atleast once a year. I also know a few people who wouldnt watch Batman Begins because of how bad Batman & Robin was, who now praise the movie because of The Dark Knight.

I understand "fandom" pretty well, some people act one way, others act another, I can enjoy movies & shows based off comics even if they screw around with the story, but at the same time if they screw around with important parts I then have issues, like Walking Dead, my favorite show right now(barely inching out Boardwalk Empire & Game of Thrones), I could go on about all the minor issues I had with the way they have changed the story, but the fact that they did get the characters right, and kept the backstory of the Grimes Family & Shane intact, I can enjoy this new path the story takes, while others will simply complain that Shane died too late, or Dale died too early, or those 2 are not in the comics.

I am also not expecting you to say that Star Wars is good, all I am trying to point out that in order for a trilogy to get voted greatest trilogy, it must have the fan base to vote for it. Star Wars has that fan base, and that is the only to gauge it. Movies might be better, but they need to reach the audience or they will never stand a chance of being the greatest.

 

[Deezy]

This thread makes me passout due to dorkiness tbh.

I think I watched th old school Toxic Avenger, was ok, saw some blind chick boobies, never watched anything since.

 

[We Are Legion]

The thing with Batman is he evolves with each generation. The Adam West series seemed stupid/dated to a lot of people in the 80's and 90's and now many people think the same way of the Tim Burton movies. I won't even mention "Batman Forever" and "Batman and Robin" because many people in the 90's thought they were complete garbage from the get go.

I expect the next Batman movie series to move away from the dark ambiance of Nolan's movies and feel more like the comic book, kind of like how watching Sin City felt like reading a comic book... and not be shy of the cliche super hero stuff that Nolan avoided, things that seemed far-fetched. I'd like to see a movie series that has the kind of story-telling that the Arkham video game series had, all the weird comic book-esque characters in the way we're used to seeing them. Like Bane cranked up on his Titan venom, Scarecrow inducing his victims into extremely unrealistic "dream" realms, and Riddler conjuring up all these weird sadistic booby traps that makes you wonder how the hell someone could come up with that stuff. Basically, fewer trivial details explained and more emphasis on core elements like story, action, suspense, etc. I'm not the kind of fan that absolutely must be convinced the Titan venom that transforms Bane is something that could happen in real life, or how the hell Killer Croc was born from a human being looking the way he does. That's all stuff I don't mind suspending disbelief for. Nolan was too "real", he didn't want to cross those boundaries, which is fine. But by avoiding that, he admittedly did screw with a lot of those characters and repackaged them in his own image, something I can understand pissing off certain fans.

 

[~Fallen Angel~]

I personally think it would rank. I rank The Lion King as the best animated movie of all time, and it was made in 1994.

The Lion King is an excellent movie. I love that I am 25 and I can still watch that film. The scene where Mufasa dies still kills me.

Nolan was too "real", he didn't want to cross those boundaries, which is fine. But by avoiding that, he admittedly did screw with a lot of those characters and repackaged them in his own image, something I can understand pissing off certain fans.

That's what I liked about Nolan's films though. In Tim Burton's films, the villains seemed far fetched. I loved Michelle Pfeiffer but her transformation into Catwoman was ridiculous. Cats revived her so she is suddenly obsessed with cats and has nine lives? Also, The Joker and The Penguin seemed a little bit ridiculous to me. I am sure they were great films for that time but things have changed. I acknowledge that Nolan has tweaked certain characters a bit such as The Joker and Bane but wasn't The Joker such a fascinating character in The Dark Knight? As for Bane, he is MASSIVE in the comics which is fine but I don't know if his look works for a movie.

I would be open to another director using the characters and story-lines from the Batman video games. It certainly has worked for the games but who knows how it would look on the big screen.

 

[We Are Legion]

The Lion King is an excellent movie. I love that I am 25 and I can still watch that film. The scene where Mufasa dies still kills me.



That's what I liked about Nolan's films though. In Tim Burton's films, the villains seemed far fetched. I loved Michelle Pfeiffer but her transformation into Catwoman was ridiculous. Cats revived her so she is suddenly obsessed with cats and has nine lives? Also, The Joker and The Penguin seemed a little bit ridiculous to me. I am sure they were great films for that time but things have changed. I acknowledge that Nolan has tweaked certain characters a bit such as The Joker and Bane but wasn't The Joker such a fascinating character in The Dark Knight? As for Bane, he is MASSIVE in the comics which is fine but I don't know if his look works for a movie.

I would be open to another director using the characters and story-lines from the Batman video games. It certainly has worked for the games but who knows how it would look on the big screen.

The comic book version of Bane would be perfectly fine for a movie, just not one of Nolan's. I would actually prefer if the movies would skip the whole background/intro scenes for the characters and just have some quick dialogue explanations for why they are the way they are. They could get away with so much more that way and leaves more food for thought. Like in Sin City as I previously referenced, that cannibal guy didn't get a whole drawn-out background story, he was just there and he did what he did. The next Batman movies should stick to that sort of thing and have more bad ass villains. You can't have those types of villains when you have to explain everything logically. Some things like that are just not needed for the sake of entertainment.

 

[Deezy]

The main problem with Dark Knight Rises for me can be chalked up to one character, Ras Al Ghul's daughter.

Take that character out of the movie then you have replayablility value. The twist ending for it was obvious from the time Bruce Wayne hooks up with her.

And it totally ruined the badassery of Bane, making him look like a pussywhipped lacky.

Anywho, what was this thread about again?

 

[CaptainxBumout]

I have to agree with We Are Legion, Nolan's films leave no real room for some of the more out there characters that I'd love to see. I don't mind any adaptation of anything so long as the movie is good. I never go into a movie thinking oh this has to be all the same or they better get so and so's backstory right, I couldn't care less so long as the movie is good. I didn't give a shit that X-Men First Class wasn't the real first class. Who cares it was a good movie and that's all I care about. Sure if Bane starts acting like the Riddler, yeah I get people being upset but a small change to his backstory isn't the end of the world. I try not to let pre existing things cloud my judgement a movie.

I'd really like to see a movie version of Arkham City also. Not exactly the entire story or anything but that awesome story telling and characters all coexisting in the same world. Sure don't overdue it right off the bat but make an actual series of films with characters intertwining with each other and more batman being batman.

Also Ben Affleck might direct the Justice League movie.

 

[~Fallen Angel~]

The comic book version of Bane would be perfectly fine for a movie, just not one of Nolan's. I would actually prefer if the movies would skip the whole background/intro scenes for the characters and just have some quick dialogue explanations for why they are the way they are. They could get away with so much more that way and leaves more food for thought. Like in Sin City as I previously referenced, that cannibal guy didn't get a whole drawn-out background story, he was just there and he did what he did. The next Batman movies should stick to that sort of thing and have more bad ass villains. You can't have those types of villains when you have to explain everything logically. Some things like that are just not needed for the sake of entertainment.

Yes, that's true. That's what I love about Batman though. You can recreate his character and the story-lines because he is such a popular vigilante that remains significant throughout time. I am very content with Nolan's version of Batman but I am also open to other directors using Batman and the villains differently.

I have to agree with We Are Legion, Nolan's films leave no real room for some of the more out there characters that I'd love to see. I don't mind any adaptation of anything so long as the movie is good. I never go into a movie thinking oh this has to be all the same or they better get so and so's backstory right, I couldn't care less so long as the movie is good. I didn't give a shit that X-Men First Class wasn't the real first class. Who cares it was a good movie and that's all I care about. Sure if Bane starts acting like the Riddler, yeah I get people being upset but a small change to his backstory isn't the end of the world. I try not to let pre existing things cloud my judgement a movie.

I'd really like to see a movie version of Arkham City also. Not exactly the entire story or anything but that awesome story telling and characters all coexisting in the same world. Sure don't overdue it right off the bat but make an actual series of films with characters intertwining with each other and more batman being batman.

Also Ben Affleck might direct the Justice League movie.

Well, that's the great thing about Batman. There will always be new Batman films; therefore other writers and directors can take a different approach. I don't think there is anything wrong with Nolan's version of Batman though. He did a great job from beginning to end and stuck to making the Batman films more realistic. It doesn't mean that his films were bad or less successful. He did what he set out to do from the beginning.

 

[Darth Shizzel]

When they do more Batman movies I wouldn't mind them doing the following.

One for Dick Grayson so they can do Nightwing

The Death of Jason Todd

Batman Knightfall

That Gangwar one where Black Mask gets control of all the criminal underworld

 

[AF.]

Rebooting Batman would be a terrible idea. DC's focus should be on the Man of Steel movies and creating a new phenomenon with them. Likely it won't top Batman but most people do know Nolan's on board with MoS so it should garner a load of popularity.

Like I've said before, I don't think Nolan's Batman will ever be topped. If they can get Nolan on board to make another (which I don't even want to see them do, I think they tied up the trilogy perfectly) then that would be better than a reboot.

 

[Darth Shizzel]

Nolan's Batman's were good but they need something more Comic Book something Dark Batman was Dark yes this one was good but they need something more.

The complaints I have is that Bane without the Venom was no match for Batman and even with the Venom Batman held his own against him except for the first time around the first time around Batman was exhausted and pushed way beyond his limits due to putting all his badguys back in jail after a massive jail break.