RAW 5/2

[Hometown Kid]

Yep...Miz looks good and Cena looks bad. Cause Miz is the champion and main eventing WM28 next year, and Cena's going back down to the midcard. >_> You can call me what you want, you're still wrong, and it's doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it.

*BTW, you don't seem to understand that winning a match doesn't mean the winner got "put over" to the fans. He still got made out as a joke and a midcarder the whole feud.

 

[Kaedon]

Really? Ask the Miz marks around here who shot their wads when Miz beat Cena at Wrestlemania if Miz looked good up till Mania and after that match. The general fan doesn't like him because he's garbage but it's not for a lack of effort on Cena's part.

 

[Axis]

I don't really understand the argument that John Cena hasn't helped the Miz, either in this feud or their one in 2009. In either case, the Miz came out in a better spot than he was in prior to working these programs. You can argue that he could have been made to look even stronger, but to believe that he is worse off after working extensively with Cena is misguided imo.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

This thread...wow.

HTK: Sheamus is not a better performer than Cena, no way no how. When it's time to deliver the goods, Cena does it better than anyone on the active roster. He has the best mic skills behind Puunk. I'm not saying he's the best worker on the roster, but he is easily the best performer on the roster and that's why he's where he's at. And I loves me some Sheamus btw, he's probably a top three guy for me in this company.

Airfixx: Cena is protected only by the booking. It's not like he doesn't deliver in the ring when it matters nor consistently. He's booked the way he's booked and does what he's told to, it's not like he's politicking or refusing jobs.

Kaedon: You don't know the difference between putting someone over and giving them a rub. And when you play the "your a fucking blueberry who's looking for interweb cred" your oh so obviously grasping for something to cling to when in fact you got nothing. And you will be infracted for flaming after I'm done with this post. That's not me being a "fucking blueberry hard ass mod", them's the rules, guy. Don't like it, make up a dozen sock accounts and show us how much a life you have. >_<

 

[Hometown Kid]

"When it's time to deliver the goods, Cena does it better than anyone on the active roster. He has the best mic skills behind Punk."

I can see that argument working 2-3 years ago, but even as a big fan of Cena's, he's blown it so many times in big matches of late i'm startimg to doubt what you're selling. Just the last year:

SummerSlam 7-on-7 with ridiculous no-selling at the end.
His match against Wade at TLC? Bad. Real bad.
WM Match with Miz? Uh...yeah.

As far as his promos go, come on, Enzo. You can't tell me he's done a good job. It's always so obvious he's just memorized cheesy lines, and it's just crappy. I'm not saying he's not capable of a good promo, but he's too caught up no-selling his alleged important issues and trying to be funny. Plus, Rock made him look pretty bad in comparison before WWE started sabotaging him, while Cena was making 10,000 gay jokes. Plus I don't think his style of promos make money 99% of the time. I don't see what I saw in Cena in '06-'07 anymore, sadly...

 

[Hometown Kid]

As has been mentioned before these many of these problems stem from faults of the dreadful creative team more than anything. I think Cena would benefit in the fans eyes from softening up on his company man (I agree he doesn't strike me as a political hound) stance, and start trying to fight a little to be booked better, not that I blame him for trying to make as few waves as possible. .

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

"When it's time to deliver the goods, Cena does it better than anyone on the active roster. He has the best mic skills behind Punk."

I can see that argument working 2-3 years ago, but even as a big fan of Cena's, he's blown it so many times in big matches of late i'm startimg to doubt what you're selling. Just the last year:

SummerSlam 7-on-7 with ridiculous no-selling at the end.
His match against Wade at TLC? Bad. Real bad.
WM Match with Miz? Uh...yeah.

As far as his promos go, come on, Enzo. You can't tell me he's done a good job. It's always so obvious he's just memorized cheesy lines, and it's just crappy. I'm not saying he's not capable of a good promo, but he's too caught up no-selling his alleged important issues and trying to be funny. Plus, Rock made him look pretty bad in comparison before WWE started sabotaging him, while Cena was making 10,000 gay jokes. Plus I don't think his style of promos make money 99% of the time. I don't see what I saw in Cena in '06-'07 anymore, sadly...

What you saw in 06-07 was Cena-HHH, Cena-Edge, Cena-HBK, Cena-Edge, Cena-Umaga, Cena-Lashley and Cena-Orton. Notice how the first three guys he worked are in ring standouts but the other guys are duds and he worked well with them? In 08-10 you had lots of Cena-Orton, which while somewhat boring, the matches were solid, Cena-Batista (matches that had no right being as good as they were, due mainly to Cena) Cena-Sheamus (where he put Sheamus over and had a fun table match) some more Cena-Edge-Big Show encounters that were good, including the under rated Mania triple threat and the brawl with Big Show, I think it was at Extreme Rules where he slammed Cena into that light and then the awesome JBL parking lot brawl that I think was Bash 08 and JBL was pretty busted up at that time. After the Batista thing, the second half of 10 was kind of bad because he was working the Nexxus angle, and that's mainly a booking flaw and he gave Barrett the match of his young career. That chairs match was fun. 11 hasn't been too good but he was solid in the EC and in that Cage match. So I fail to see how he hasn't been consistent his entire run, because he has.

And yeah, I can understand how his promos are unappealing, but heres the thing, we, the 5% of the audience that is hardcore, don't make up the 12-18,000 people he gets rocking in arenas on a weekly basis. Smarkism and fanboyism aside, this is a business and his speeches, along with his matches, make him the most in demand wrestler on the planet, like it or not and with very little depth on the roster right now, he is easily the no. 2 promo in the company behind Punk. Other top guys are Show, Del Rio, Cole, Lawler,and Miz. Then you have Orton and Christian,then a gap and then you have the Truths, Codys, Sheamuses. Barretts and other guys who have the skill but just need the polish. In the last 14 months they've lost three of the greatest talkers ever in Edge, HBK and Jericho and Trips is top notch too. The depth is very shallow. And I stand by what I say.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

^You HAVE to admit there are just some guys flat out not getting chances to even show up on the card though, or are on the card and aren't given opportunities to talk.

 

[Hometown Kid]

You know I respect ya for standing by what you say and who you like, and I see what you're saying about his in-ring skills, i've never been a Cena "hater" in-ring on the whole, mostly since the Nexus deal started. I'm not gonna trash anything you said on your first part. He's exactly what you said for the most part. Solid.

It's always been his promos that I personally railed against. And I don't think "smarking" has anything to do with it. His drawing power comes from being the biggest star in the biz, not a bunch of great interviews he's cut (Again, he's had quite a few in the past though). Cena's shining talking moment in my opinion came during his retirement speech, which he outdid any of his promos, movies, whatever. I think that was the closest thing he's come to a money making promo in I don't know how long. I bet buyrates would be even higher if Cena took that approach to his promos at least once a month if he got a feud like The Nexus one to sink his teeth into,

 

[...god...]

Seriously, his little gay whiney bitch promo where he actually made it believable he was quitting was the first one I've probably ever bought into. Then of course, he came back the next week and completely shit on any of that. MOM, I'M COMING HOME...! Jk.

 

[Airfixx]

^^^^Yeah, the cunt was only really crying cos he knew wouldn't actually get to see his mum for like another decade.

Airfixx: Cena is protected only by the booking. It's not like he doesn't deliver in the ring when it matters nor consistently. He's booked the way he's booked and does what he's told to, it's not like he's politicking or refusing jobs.

When I'm criticising Cena THE WORKER, I'll let you know.... --->

Then again (even though I'm not insinuating anything) unless you're sat with him & Vince having their on-on-ones meeting like always happens with the top guys, HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW WHAT POLITICING DOES AND DOESN'T GO ON? (...It's the flipside of all the hype about HHH holding peeps down.)

U seen Kennedy's post WWE shoot? Obviously you can't take these things as gospel, but interestingly, Kennedy blames CENA for his lack of progress in WWE as much as, if not more than, he does Orton (even though his firing was DIRECTLY linked to the incident with Orton)....





LOL @ another ban for Kaedon. Get a new gimmick, fella!

 

[Luke Flywalker]

I still want to know if I missed Cena's special surprise for the Rock on Monday...

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

^^^^Yeah, the cunt was only really crying cos he knew wouldn't actually get to see his mum for like another decade.



When I'm criticising Cena THE WORKER, I'll let you know.... --->

Then again (even though I'm not insinuating anything) unless you're sat with him & Vince having their on-on-ones meeting like always happens with the top guys, HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW WHAT POLITICING DOES AND DOESN'T GO ON? (...It's the flipside of all the hype about HHH holding peeps down.)

U seen Kennedy's post WWE shoot? Obviously you can't take these things as gospel, but interestingly, Kennedy blames CENA for his lack of progress in WWE as much as, if not more than, he does Orton (even though his firing was DIRECTLY linked to the incident with Orton)....





LOL @ another ban for Kaedon. Get a new gimmick, fella!

The thing with hhh was there were numerous reports and former employee testimonials to corroborate what we were seeing on tv. On the other hand, who has really ever dragged cena thru the muck besides kennedy who wants to blame his misfortunes on everyone except bad luck for his injuries and lack of skill when he injured people.

 

[Airfixx]

The thing with hhh was there were numerous reports and former employee testimonials to corroborate what we were seeing on tv. On the other hand, who has really ever dragged cena thru the muck besides kennedy who wants to blame his misfortunes on everyone except bad luck for his injuries and lack of skill when he injured people.

Kennedy didn't blame his issues on "everyone" like you claim anyway (Just Orton & Cena.... He gave Taker & big Dave major props and no bad words for the bosses son-in-law), but regardless, like I already said, I haven't necesarily bought into what Kennedy was saying, but true to the unintended crux of your post, only time will tell if Cena is a politicing nazi satan fuck that HHH allegedly is.

Why?

What other bordeline ME talent that could be constured to have been politiced against by Cena are actually no longer with the company?

When you consider Lashley & Carltio obviously didn't give a shit.... Arguably Kennedy is the first one. (Am I missing anyone?)

It'll be interesting to hear what the likes of Punk, Miz, Sheamus or whoever EVENTUALLY say about Mr 'Whiter Than White' Cena when it's shootin' time.... AND THAT'S MY POINT.

As for the HHH stuff specifically.....

To me it's will always be a contentious issue where either side of the argument is only supported by rumour or the statement of individuals; the negative side generally coming from the individuals he allegedly wronged (which leaves plenty of scope for personal agenda, bitterness and lies)....

Tell me this... Who do you believe to have a LEGITIMATE case (i.e at least supported beyond all reasonable doubt) to claim to have been buried by HHH?

The point that, to me, get's neglected from the off is the fact that a) 2003 was finally the time for him to have a run as THEE man (which arguably he deserved) and that b) it was a time when the company desperately needed someone they could rely upon to carry a show... Please don't tell me that's Bubbah Ray, RVD, Scott Steiner, Billy Gunn, Chyna or even (Masked) Kane or Booker T... (Sorry if I've forgotten anyone else who bitched about him.).

Second thing that seems to get neglected is, when bringing Orton'04 into the discussion, is that a) he never had anything approaching clean loss against HHH and b) Evolution's betrayal is what gradually gave birth to the psycho that was The Viper prowling the WWE during The Age Of Orton 2007/2008.... Listen to the lyrics to his old theme, FFS (That alone signals a certain amount of intent and a bigger picture storyline wise).

Additionally, there's gotta be a little weight to the theory that they only gave Orton the run, to scrub Lesnar from the books as the youngest ever world champ and that would, in turn, back up the theory that Evolution was just another case of deviating from a big elaborate storyline, only to fuck it up as a result. In some ways Randy was the victim sure, but hey he was fucking shit up for himself behind the scenes anyway and luckily enough for him it eventually came full circle anyway and gave his character a wicked edge!

(I am a bit of a shoot junky (epsecially right now whilst the product is severely trying my patience) and I think when I was talking to you about the Lanny Poffo shootsome time ago that i'd rather hear the guys that enjoyed their time in the business, rather than disgruntled guys that didn't reach they heights they beleived they deserved cos it's all just too contentious and potentially self-serving.)

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

So you're conjecture is based on what people haven't yet said about Cena yet defend the countless reports of triple h being a stalin back in 03 to 05. Go read monks stories from the writters themselves, trips was a hogan esque prick sans the drawing power hogan had.