Final Four #1

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Better World Champ?

  • John Cena

    Votes: 11 50.0%
  • Steve Austin

    Votes: 11 50.0%

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .

Tapout

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Wait, we're really giving negative rep around here?

Whatever. I'm glad to see Cena winning here. This is what makes Cena such a good champion. Look back at this tournament, NO ONE in it has garnered such discussions then Cena. He's always talked about, always being debated about. Now, some of it may be bad, but it's all good in the long run. Austin never garnered this much debate in the tournament. And I think it's because people WANT to hate Cena. They don't even look at the story first. It's just Cena, so lets just hate him. His year long reign had to be THE best WWE Title reign in like the last 20 years. All the great feuds and matches with Triple H, Randy Orton, Edge, Shawn Michaels, Umaga, Bobby Lashley. He was unstoppable. Cena made those feuds. Lets give Austin a world championship feud with Umaga, or Lashley, and see how well he would make it. I doubt he could make it as good as Cena did.
 

Slim

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I love how people criticize me or call me a mark just because of my opinion. I just don't see Cena's appeal anymore. I mean, when he was US champion and doing the whole Thuganomics schtick he was cool but the with him doing the same old played-out routine since 2006 does not make him a better champion. Austin's character has transcended the eras and still works today. You mean to tell me Cena's act would fly in 1997? There is no way. Austin, on the other hand, could've been huge in ANY era, this current one included. Austin is the biggest star wrestling has ever had. Look at the merch sales. Look at the attendance records. Look at the RAW ratings. Cena pulls 3's if he's lucky. Austin used to pull 6's and 7's and the occasional 8. Sure, Austin had good supporting characters like Foley, Rock, and HHH but Cena's always had HHH, HBK, and Orton so that's no excuse to make that he cant do it on his own.

Oh, and EOR, thanks for the negative rep. Looks like someone is still butthurt about CWF ;)

Could Cena's character work in '97? Yeah. But he'd be the best heel ever during that time. Cause look at Rocky... he was one of those type of faces and he got booed so heavy that they had to turn him heel. So yeah cena's character could work. And speaking of which... why you referring to 97? Austin didn't win his first world title until '98 so any '97 argument is irrelevant.

And look at merch sales? Cena has been selling merch for years. He has been a top seller everywhere in live events, ppv events, taped shows, wwe.com. So again what are you trying to prove there? Cena sells... and he sells very well. And to talk about the ratings... ah man really? We're talking about the era where you had the nWo being fresh and still running strong and during that time the Attitude era was running strong. You had Rock, Triple H, Foley, Undertaker AND during that time all of them were established. And not only that but there was serious competition from WCW... in which WWF was losing the war for quite a while right?

With Cena's run who do they have? Orton. He didn't always have HBK and he def didn't always have Triple H. Cena had Orton. Austin had tons of supporting people to make the shows better. WWE screwed up in not developing more big names. Then there was also no competition so WWe didn't have to try as hard cause they already won and so we see the results of that. so you have Austin during the hottest era, with the absolute best cast out there, and also a company that was bringing real competition... and you expect a guy with one other guy, no competition, in a down slope for wrestling to pull those same numbers? The fans that were during that era are us. We are that era and quite a few have grown out of it. Not to mention also ECW was still running during that era. I mean you had everything a wrestling fan could want during that era. Now we have TNA? TNA can't even compare to WCW let alone WCW. This is all an uphill battle where as all Austin had to do was coast.

I'm just saying you are giving cena a lotta flack and Austin far too much credit when really... if you wanna talk Attitude... look at the original DX. They were the ones to help usher in the attitude. Austin was just starting to get himself known after King of the Ring but he didn't click until after Mania 13 but even then he didn't have that main event swagger until after Mania XIV and Original DX was pushing the boundaries way before that. nWo was pushig things way before that. Austin didn't bring in the 6,7, and 8 ratings... and not to mention the highest rated segment... did not involve Austin... it was Rock and Foley.

So there ya go. Yeah Cena should win.
 

Gotcha b*tch

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DX was/is lame.

Cena sells Merch because kids buy his stuff, because he's shoved down their throats as the main good guy. They could easily shove someone else into that spot and turn Cena heel.
 

Lewb

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To risk sounding like an attitude smark "lol" Im going with Steve Austin, and there's a few reasons why.

His storylines to get to championships were more enthralling. It was never like it is now where creative get paid simply to decide when the belt should go back on Cena.

My absolute favorite title run (of all time) was Austins from Mania 17, the Power Trip, The Alliance, the Angle McMahon segments, amazing.

I understand how good a champion John Cena has been, but I really don't see how it can beat Austin. Honestly.
 

Slim

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DX was/is lame.

Cena sells Merch because kids buy his stuff, because he's shoved down their throats as the main good guy. They could easily shove someone else into that spot and turn Cena heel.

DX in 97 was off the charts. The first time Trips, Pac, and the Outlaws got together was the goods. Anytime after that they sucked. But the point is... they were the ones that ushered in the attitude era for WWE, not Austin.

And as far as selling... it doesn't matter how the process is done. There is always a choice not to buy. You're not buying all the Cena merch are ya? Its being shoved down all of our proverbial throats but I don't see a lot of us rocking the wristbands, the hats, the shirts, the spinner belts, and saying "You can't see me." And you can't just replace Cena with anybody else. That guy has to have charisma and Cena has it. And simply turning him heel is not going to fix everything.

To risk sounding like an attitude smark "lol" Im going with Steve Austin, and there's a few reasons why.

His storylines to get to championships were more enthralling. It was never like it is now where creative get paid simply to decide when the belt should go back on Cena.

My absolute favorite title run (of all time) was Austins from Mania 17, the Power Trip, The Alliance, the Angle McMahon segments, amazing.

I understand how good a champion John Cena has been, but I really don't see how it can beat Austin. Honestly.

thats the thing... Austin's chase to get the title was good. His reigns as champion were not. Cena's race to get the title... only his first chase was good. But his reigns were good. Thats why Cena should win it. His reigns were good whereas Austin's were not.
 

EffectsofRaven

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I love how people criticize me or call me a mark just because of my opinion. I just don't see Cena's appeal anymore. I mean, when he was US champion and doing the whole Thuganomics schtick he was cool but the with him doing the same old played-out routine since 2006 does not make him a better champion. Austin's character has transcended the eras and still works today. You mean to tell me Cena's act would fly in 1997? There is no way. Austin, on the other hand, could've been huge in ANY era, this current one included. Austin is the biggest star wrestling has ever had. Look at the merch sales. Look at the attendance records. Look at the RAW ratings. Cena pulls 3's if he's lucky. Austin used to pull 6's and 7's and the occasional 8. Sure, Austin had good supporting characters like Foley, Rock, and HHH but Cena's always had HHH, HBK, and Orton so that's no excuse to make that he cant do it on his own.

Oh, and EOR, thanks for the negative rep. Looks like someone is still butthurt about CWF ;)

I gave you neg rep because you gave the most stupid, poorly structured, ill thought out and marky post ever, oh wait that's just CWF under you and only person agrees with you is Andrew and a Goldfish has a higher IQ than that :).

As for your ludicious comments, ofc Cena wouldn't fit into the attitude era, because he's got a entirely different gimmick which FITS this era, same as Austin's fitted the Attitude Era, however Austin's gimmick as stale and hasn't adjusted with the times.

I cba to go into more detail, you couldn't fathom the thought...
 

Kingslayer

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This is CLOSE? Good God. Anybody who voted Cena should hide their faces so the public never has to see them. This is embarassing.
 

John McHenry

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Another mark... Roflol... So many idiots :D!

Great defense if you voted for Austin your a mark. Great one. Your only argument other than that is Cena's "Dominance"

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. It's fucking scripted their is no dominance. Length of reigns don't matter so it boils down to how entertaining the guy is and what he does in the ring. Five moves of Doom don't fucking cut it. Does Cena have more moves than that yes when he debuted up until he dropped thuganomics he was actually entertaining was he entertaining in the majority of his title reigns? No. Has his character ever changed twice. Did Austins evolve and change over time yes. Does Cena's gimmick work before the 90's? No. Does Austins yes redneck has been around since the dawn of america, guy that hates his boss since the invention of bosses.

Also a big fuck you for negative repping someone elses opinion. Grow the fuck up.
 

EffectsofRaven

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Great defense if you voted for Austin your a mark. Great one. Your only argument other than that is Cena's "Dominance"

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. It's fucking scripted their is no dominance. Length of reigns don't matter so it boils down to how entertaining the guy is and what he does in the ring. Five moves of Doom don't fucking cut it. Does Cena have more moves than that yes when he debuted up until he dropped thuganomics he was actually entertaining was he entertaining in the majority of his title reigns? No. Has his character ever changed twice. Did Austins evolve and change over time yes. Does Cena's gimmick work before the 90's? No. Does Austins yes redneck has been around since the dawn of america, guy that hates his boss since the invention of bosses.

Also a big fuck you for negative repping someone elses opinion. Grow the fuck up.

Considering I've posted constantly and always up held the same argument and noone has proved anything worth noting which screams Austin over Cena, hell it's not about the dominance, it's about the actual content of the reign, from the promos, to the feuds to the matches and 07 was the damn best title reign in America I've seen and I'm no Cena mark, Austin has ZERO great reigns, all of them are good but disjoined and I swear people are forgetting how to read or they've not read what the tournament is about which is the greatest champion of all time.

Austin beating Flair was shocking as it was, and Benoit being Hulk Hogan was lolage, everyone has been so subjective, letting their markism get in the way of actual objective thinking "who is the greatest champion of all time?" so yes, it's scripted but that doesn't deny a man from being the better champion... As for Cena's gimmick, It pretty much was Hogans in the 80s, everyone's gimmick would be altered to fit the era they are in, so in the 90s Cena's Rapper gimmick would be the one of choice, but Austin has stuck to same gimmick till the present day, it's just been censored more...

It's awfully frustrating when everyone goes "THIS IS AN EASY VOTE... AUSTIN... YAY!" when it's clearly supposedly the toughest, when in reality, Cena's one single long reign out does Austin's 6... Blame the booking over Cena... Austin always played hot potato with the belt... How can that make him a better champion than Cena?
 

PHX

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Don't think it's that serious for people to be getting pissed over but fact is the people who voted for Cena for the most part have given legit reasons as to why he made a better champion, not a better wrestler or whatever just simply why he was a better champion. I don't think there is a wrong answer here but think it's ignorant to do the whole lolz Cena sux ignoring the fact that his title reigns had some pretty damn good matches and moments in it. So me personally I just wanna see why someone says Austin is the better champion than Cena without doing it immaturely.
 
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Slim

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Thats all I'm waiting for as well. Nobody has said that Cena is more entertaining, is better in the ring... but has stated that he was the better world champion and has stated reasons as to why. the only defense for Austin I've seen is, you have to be 13 to vote for Cena, Austin easy. I mean the one that tried... it was debunked.

It shouldn't be a blow out, it should be close, but I'm pretty sure these guys, myself included, that are sticking up for Cena are not Cena marks but are more wrestling fans with objective views and are not going to be blinded by the awesomeness that was the Attitude Era. Would I have wanted to vote for Austin and eliminate Cena from the tourney? Better believe it. But facts are facts, Cena was the better champion.
 

The Hoov

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No, you neg repped me because you are still butthurt. I gave my opinion that I love Austin and find him VASTLY and INFINITELY more entertaining than John Cena. You call me a mark because my opinion is that way. If I don't share the EXACT same opinion as you, then I suck ass. I was joking when I said "any other opinion is invalid" of course it's not but when you act like you've been acting in this thread then yes, it does render your opinion invalid. If anyone is the mark in this thread, it's you being a mark for Cena because ANY point brought up by us with a differing opinion is immediately blown off. John McHenry is right. It's not about length or amount of reigns. It's about who was more entertaining and Austin was more entertaining. Cena has been stale, in my honest opinion, since 2006. Austin can still walk out into an arena and get the biggest pop of the night and he hasn't wrestled a single match since 2003. If Cena stopped wrestling today and then popped up in 2019, would he get a strong reaction? Sure but would he get a monster pop from the crowd? No because, despite what the WWE would have you believe, the people who can't stand Cena outweighs the people who do and Cena isn't the draw he once was. I'm not saying he's still not worth anything, but his spot has been taken by CM Punk.

In short, Cena has his spot in wrestling history, but the man who is the biggest star in wrestling history goes by the name of Stone Cold Steve Austin. Yes the Attitude Era was hot because the WWE actually gave a shit and had WCW breathing down their necks, but it was just as equally influenced by the way people latched on to Austin in a way people have never done with Cena. At the end of the day, being the better champion means being more entertaining and being more beloved by the fans and, for my money and anyone else who isn't trying to be "anti-trendy" and like Cena when the cool thing is to hate Cena (an oxymoron of an oxymoron seewhatIdidthar?).

BTW, bring Andrew into it? I never mentioned his name. That's not cool at all. That's low and it just shows what kind of character you have....which is none.
 
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Andrew

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God EoR, you're the biggest fucking piece of shit ever on the internet. You're not worth the oxygen and time to waste, don't drag me into fucking problems ya prick.

I voted Austin exactly to what Hoov said, the pops, the matches he can put on, they're entertaining. You're just hating because you're a Cena mark, but hey... Each to their own and if you can't respect people who voted Austin then you're just an absolute dickhead.
 

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I haven't quite given a proper response, largely due to the fact, that unlike some of the partisan marks, I actually think this was a close match-up in terms of how their reigns were AND in terms of their talents. As far as Champions go, Cena has been the Champ for about 6 years now, and for the most part, he still delivers every year, you either get a good year(2005,2006,2008 etc.) or a really outstanding year(2007,2009,2010). Austin was realistically only on top in the WWE for 3 years(1998-2001), so already, Cena has doubled his time at the top. Apparently some reports have stated that Cena's merch sales are quite close to Austins.

As far as ratings go, to say that "Cena pulls in 3's", and "Austin pulls in 6's" is incredibly ignorant. While Austin was definitely extremely over and the top guy, he was hardly the guy to give credit(single-handedly) for the ratings. If anything, what really got the Austin character over was not only the booking but the Vince McMahon character. Furthermore, you can't ignore certain factors, the wrestling/cable boom -- which meant that there wasn't a lot of competition since it was still a new thing(weekly Wrestling on national television). Today, there are like 200 more channels than there were in 1998, no matter what happens, what Vince & Co do, wrestling will NEVER be as popular as it was in the 90's(certainly not in the foreseeable future). So drop the whole "ZOMG Austin saved us" -- that is foolishly simplistic.

As far as the Austin character goes, in wrestling, it wasn't exactly too revolutionary. Guys were doing that sort of stuff in the territories(guys like Dick Murdoch), on a semi national level YEARS before Austin stepped into the WWE. So Austin most definitely did not revolutionize the business in that respect -- he merely emulated what was already happening on the territory level a few years ago and brought it to national television. To say that Austin was revolutionary(as far as the character goes) is to say that Shawn Michaels invented the Ladder match -- in the WWE fan's mind that might be true because they have been so hyped up by the WWE PR machine and haven't really seen wrestling before the 90's, but it simply isn't true. It is ludicrous. The ladder match was strong in the territories (including Bret Hart's territory, and it was Hart who brought it to the WWE afterall) long before Michaels did in the 90's.

As far as the whole argument with regards to "Cena would never fit into any other Era", it is BUNK. Cena has already proven with his gimmicks in the WWE(rapper vs now) that he has the ability to appeal to different sectors of the fan base. I would rather say he would have made a nice Corporate Champion back in the 90's. The idea that Austin was somehow timeless is also bunk. Austin's gimmick ONLY got over because people were tired with the early 90's and late 80's cartoony WWE -- if that hadn't happened Austin would not have been over. In short, time, circumstances, situations DO matter. Similarly, in a post-Attitude Era world, the Austin gimmick wouldn't work and that much is evident. Austin has made numerous returns(guest referee) and for the most part the ratings/buyrates that the WWE hopes for don't usually pan out. The Austin well is *dry*. Sure one last match would pay big but if he was a regular the nostalgia would wear out. No gimmick is timeless, everything is a product of its time. People seem to forget that a lot of the times the WWE used the whole pg-13 to do rather poor storylines/creative work, relying basically on the shock factor to get stuff over rather than making serious efforts. The attitude era had its share of crap.

As far as in ring stuff goes, I think it is a close match -- largely because the IWC people have underrated Austin for YEARS. So I think do Austin was great as an in ring performer. I also think Cena is great as an in ring performer -- in the same league as the greats of this business(including Austin). It is only a close bout because I think both are great.

I ended up going with Cena for this poll, but I think if people chose Austin it wouldn't exactly be wrong or the most preposterous choice of this tournament. I do however think the whole "ZOMG Cena SUX and it is CLEARLY Austin" crowd is preposterous and immature.
 
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