WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (September 12, 2011)

[Luke Flywalker]

^But Punk and H got physical last night...

 

[Hometown Kid]

Punk: "I respect you for getting rid of that charisma vacuum and ratings killer, Kevin Nash."

Hollow words, considering the source. And not to mention the other guy in the ring at the time, "pot calling the kettle black" doesn't even begin to tell the tale.

It makes me sick these two self-absorbed jackasses get 20 minutes every week to disgrace the sport. talk shit, in circles about things that only Flywalker could care about, while Miz & Truth are just having awesome chemistry and promos in the undercard. A second rate version of TNA I thought i'd never witness, yet here it is every week on two different WWE shows. Vince is coming back soon, I just know it.

Looks like Rock's gonna have to save their ass again. Sigh.

 

[NinoBrown]

That was physical? HHH knocking the mic away and Punk hitting him with the mic?

 

[noumenon]

The HHH/Punk interactions have kind of been running in complete circles as of late. To be honest though, they booked this thing into a corner in a fucking hurry.

Punk IS kind of coming off as a whiny bitch in a lot of his promos lately, combined with the fact that he still hasn't been able to get over as the level of face I think they were hoping for really isn't helping his case.
Triple H really isn't tweener enough for this to work. I'm sorry but the crowd is going to side with a face HHH over a face Punk any day...no exceptions.
They wrote Kevin Nash out of this waaaay too soon. I get that he's coming back at NOC most likely, but he was the entire catalyst for this feud and without him it just seems like they're arguing about Stephanie, ice cream bars and Punk wanting out of shape guys to have the spotlight.

 

[Hometown Kid]

I don't think the crowd's been exactly been blowing up for Trips either. It's just a battle between two unover faces at this point.

Which is why in the chatbox I suggested some kind of Russo angle (To fit their storyline, and Nash would probably suggest this) in which the match never is a farce and they both turn for awhile with Punk being Trips' corporate champ until Trips gets jealous, it explodes at RR with Trips costing him the title, the board removes him from COO at EC, they actually have something useful to fight over, first match happens at WM. Truth be told I thought Punk and Trips would end up working together after the first Raw or so with Nash. Trips seemed just a little too cool when Punk was on about Steph at first.

Or they could do what I really want, have Punk get destroyed, then have him replace Cole on the commentary team, the one role he can shine in.

 

[noumenon]

I think this once again boils down to simple booking mistakes that had they not been made would have made for vast improvements on this entire thing. Having Punk stay away for only a week was the biggest of all. Sure, I get it... the majority of us knew the guy wasn't going anywhere, but having him only stay away for a week? Give me a fucking break. It just kind of negated the main selling point of that final match against Cena. Punk was on the verge of being the most over face since well...Cena.... all they needed was that one or two month gap to really drive home the guys point...let the fans miss him a bit.
I think secondly taking the title off Punk so quickly was just ridiculous. He was someone who I think could have given real prestige back to that belt seeing on how strongly he fought to obtain it. Yet ADR cashed in and he just chose to forget about it all together? Really? Elevating someone "above the title" doesn't really work when they don't even seem to give a flying fuck about the title.

 

[...god...]

I don't think the crowd's been exactly been blowing up for Trips either. It's just a battle between two unover faces at this point.

Which is why in the chatbox I suggested some kind of Russo angle (To fit their storyline, and Nash would probably suggest this) in which the match never is a farce and they both turn for awhile with Punk being Trips' corporate champ until Trips gets jealous, it explodes at RR with Trips costing him the title, the board removes him from COO at EC, they actually have something useful to fight over, first match happens at WM. Truth be told I thought Punk and Trips would end up working together after the first Raw or so with Nash. Trips seemed just a little too cool when Punk was on about Steph at first.

Or they could do what I really want, have Punk get destroyed, then have him replace Cole on the commentary team, the one role he can shine in.

agreed, but it's not all their fault. It's largely/majority the WWE's shitty ass booking and the morons who work for Vince nowadays yet again. They like to completely ruin good storylines every 6 months-1 year. First it was the SES, then Nexus, and now maybe this new Punk one.

Anyways, I see Vince returning soon, possibly could be the one who sent the text the whole time. IT WAS ME PUNK, IT WAS ME ALL ALONG! Will only work if JR is there to say, "AW, SON OVA BITCH!"

 

[Luke Flywalker]

The more I think about what HTK said, the more I think it's realistically the most likely reason this one botched so horribly...

...you bring in a guy who is trying to establish himself as a face, and all of a sudden he's going against the new COO while he's still one of the biggest faces in the company.

Punk had a pretty awesome following against Cena, and that's even with the fact that they CLEARLY brought him back too soon instead of having him randomly appear with the title in the crowds, maybe doing a run-in here or there... but it was just too much too soon. Like, do we not realize we possibly could have had a Punk/Rock match at Royal Rumble for the WWE Championship if WWE would have played their cards right? You could have had Punk literally hold the belt hostage, cause months of chaos and mayhem, and then use The Rock to get a match out of a returning Punk based on Punk's displeasure with Dwayne getting to come in and ME Mania whenever he wants, hell, have Rock put his Mania ME spot on the line... have Cena come in and screw one or the other (Punk outta the title so he can fight Rock for it at Mania or Rock out of it so he can have all the focus on them and the conspiracy for Punk can continue as Trips decides against the stipulation after the fact based on Cena's actions)... I mean, that's just one path. But the buildup to even THAT point would have been awesome because he'd have been dodging Trips the entire time... and Triple H could have had time to establish himself as a heel so that the Punk feud when he was back in the ring could culminate at Mania...

...I still think we're getting some good stuff and expect a lot better to come out of this... but it's hard to deny that they maybe screwed themselves out of the money storyline that would have turned Punk into a true to form superstar and could have sent Triple H and even Cena to new heights and helped establish multiple storylines around main feuds for Mania 28.

 

[...god...]

Lol if you think he's not getting over as a face vs. Triple H, he'd have no chance in hell against The Rock.

 

[noumenon]

Exactly, there is no chance in hell in getting over as a face against Rock, he's simply going to bury anyone who faces him in terms of fan support. I just think they need to push HHH in a little more of a tweener role than he's been doing. I mean, fuck...he's the COO... GET HIM INVOLVED IN SOME MORE SHIT! There's no reason he couldn't have his nose in three or four storylines... perhaps dicking over a face in another one of them.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Lol if you think he's not getting over as a face vs. Triple H, he'd have no chance in hell against The Rock.

But Punk vs. Rock is a face vs. face scenario, and after months of a huge build like they should have done, there's no telling where Punk would be at... he'd not outpop The Rock, but the result of that match either way could still leave Punk in a far better situation in terms of crowd support.

 

[...god...]

It'd be the same case, him trying to insult Rock by calling him a kiss ass and Dwayne and so forth (basically what Cena was doing and failing) but the fans not buying it because they like Rock more. They just have too many big faces and doesn't have the balls to turn people so it's hard to build an up and coming face. It doesn't matter though, since it's not like Punk SHOULD be the #1 face, he won't be or even have a chance until Cena turns. He's more like in Jericho's situation when he was in the early 2000's. I don't think the fans aren't reacting because they aren't into the characters, it's just the storyline hit a stump the past few Raws because creative sucks, but I think that'll change at the PPV where they've been delivering surprises and it should change the outlook a bit. As for the ratings, this has more to do with Raw in general sucking and Del Rio being given a test as champ, last I checked neither Punk nor HHH is the champ.. The ratings have been about the same anyway for Raw, but for SD.. they're terrible, below 2.0's.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

^Exactly @ ratings. Punk's segments haven't fallen (though his matches have). But Raw has just sucked. Nevermind that no other storylines have developed outside of the Punk/Triple H and Orton/Henry... oh, and Sin vs. Cara

 

[Canadian]

Punk won't get super over, until he has a lengthy title reign with the WWE title, imo. WWE needs to trust him as top dog for longer.